itsnotoutthere Posted June 14, 2021 #1 Share Posted June 14, 2021 The level of “woke” policing has passed a “high water mark” of tolerance from the public – who would rather see officers catch burglars, the new head of England’s second largest force has said. Stephen Watson, the new chief constable of Greater Manchester Police (GMP), believes the public is “fed up” and that the impartiality of officers could be undermined by responses to campaign groups including actions such as taking the knee or wearing their pins, badges or rainbow shoelaces. On whether he would take the knee in uniform, Mr Watson told The Daily Telegraph: “No, I absolutely would not. I would probably kneel before the Queen, God, and Mrs Watson, that’s it.” https://uk.news.yahoo.com/public-not-want-virtue-signalling-222520033.html Cue outraged twitter pile-on, followed by groveling apology & subsequent resignation. (the guy is obviously far too sensible for the job). 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Posted June 14, 2021 #2 Share Posted June 14, 2021 He is right, of course, imo anyway. All civil servants should be apolitical. They are employed to carry out various functions of governmental and civil life, not make political statements. If a policeman, soldier, nurse or Civil Servant wants to take part in parades, which does not directly affect their jobs, they should do it off-duty and out of uniform. It is different if it directly affects their jobs, I have no problem with the Fire Brigade for example, standing outside their stations with banners protesting pay-cuts, or nurses marching against cut-backs as that is part of our democracy, but I see that different to them showing allegiance to various movements while they are supposed to be working. Maybe I'm wrong. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted June 14, 2021 #3 Share Posted June 14, 2021 1 hour ago, ted hughes said: He is right, of course, imo anyway. All civil servants should be apolitical. They are employed to carry out various functions of governmental and civil life, not make political statements. If a policeman, soldier, nurse or Civil Servant wants to take part in parades, which does not directly affect their jobs, they should do it off-duty and out of uniform. That's already the case. The issue is that people don't agree on what is a political issue. For example, some people seem to think it's a political issue whether it's ok to be racist or not. The rest of us just take it as a given that it's not. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsnotoutthere Posted June 14, 2021 Author #4 Share Posted June 14, 2021 14 minutes ago, Setton said: That's already the case. The issue is that people don't agree on what is a political issue. For example, some people seem to think it's a political issue whether it's ok to be racist or not. The rest of us just take it as a given that it's not. Example? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Posted June 14, 2021 #5 Share Posted June 14, 2021 21 minutes ago, Setton said: That's already the case. The issue is that people don't agree on what is a political issue. For example, some people seem to think it's a political issue whether it's ok to be racist or not. The rest of us just take it as a given that it's not. I just laughed, because of course it isn't a political issue, and it isn't acceptable. Perhaps I should have 'Liked'. I find the response buttons a bit limiting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted June 14, 2021 #6 Share Posted June 14, 2021 2 hours ago, itsnotoutthere said: Example? Literally anyone who supported the BNP for one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted June 14, 2021 #7 Share Posted June 14, 2021 2 hours ago, ted hughes said: I just laughed, because of course it isn't a political issue, and it isn't acceptable. Perhaps I should have 'Liked'. I find the response buttons a bit limiting. So then police officers and civil servants showing their opposition to racism, sexism, etc. etc. etc. shouldn't be a problem, should it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Posted June 14, 2021 #8 Share Posted June 14, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Setton said: So then police officers and civil servants showing their opposition to racism, sexism, etc. etc. etc. shouldn't be a problem, should it? Of course it is a problem. Pink ribbons, rainbow ribbons, badges saying BLM are not part of their uniform. They shouldn't be showing allegiance to any particular religion either. I'm not racist, not one jot, but I don't wear a BLM button when in work. They are not appropriate. Edited June 14, 2021 by ted hughes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted June 14, 2021 #9 Share Posted June 14, 2021 27 minutes ago, ted hughes said: Of course it is a problem. Pink ribbons, rainbow ribbons, badges saying BLM are not part of their uniform. They shouldn't be showing allegiance to any particular religion either. I'm not racist, not one jot, but I don't wear a BLM button when in work. They are not appropriate. Wait, so opposing racism is a political statement now? Which is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Posted June 14, 2021 #10 Share Posted June 14, 2021 1 hour ago, Setton said: Wait, so opposing racism is a political statement now? Which is it? Being opposed to racism isn't a political statement. It is a stance. Wearing a badge saying you are opposed to it, to work, is a statement. Same as being a racist. I expect quite a lot of people are closet racists. That's their business. But wearing a KKK outfit to go shopping would be a statement. Time and a place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted June 14, 2021 #11 Share Posted June 14, 2021 (edited) 23 minutes ago, ted hughes said: Time and a place. It's called terms and conditions of employment and they know it. You do not bring any scandal that would put the company in a bad light. They pretend they don't understand it when it comes to left wing issues like refusing to wait on a police officer in a restaurant. Let an unmarried teacher working at a Christian school get pregnant and then they are all for punishment and/or firing. You do not alienate any customer under any circumstances and it's even more important for public servants. Not so much politicians these days. They just flat out make everyone look bad with their petty squabbles. Edited June 14, 2021 by Michelle 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knob Oddy Posted June 14, 2021 #12 Share Posted June 14, 2021 1 hour ago, Setton said: Wait, so opposing racism is a political statement now? Which is it? Do you think wearing a badge is opposing racism? How? What does a badge or kneeling in front of minorities do to reduce racism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted June 14, 2021 #13 Share Posted June 14, 2021 49 minutes ago, ted hughes said: Being opposed to racism isn't a political statement. It is a stance. Wearing a badge saying you are opposed to it, to work, is a statement. Same as being a racist. I expect quite a lot of people are closet racists. That's their business. But wearing a KKK outfit to go shopping would be a statement. Time and a place. So it's the fact of a statement you have an issue with, not whether it's political or not? Why then we're you saying public servants need to be apolitical earlier in this conversation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted June 14, 2021 #14 Share Posted June 14, 2021 34 minutes ago, Michelle said: It's called terms and conditions of employment and they know it. You do not bring any scandal that would put the company in a bad light Most people wouldn't see opposing racism as showing your employer in a bad light... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartan max2 Posted June 14, 2021 #15 Share Posted June 14, 2021 In my public sector jobs I've always been told not to wear anything political because public sector employees are suppose to appear neutral because we serve all taxpayers. And appearing neutral helps people feel they are treated more fairly. Using BLM as an example. BLM is contraversal and means a lot of different things to different people. It's not seen as a "not racist" badge. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michelle Posted June 14, 2021 #16 Share Posted June 14, 2021 6 minutes ago, spartan max2 said: In my public sector jobs I've always been told not to wear anything political because public sector employees are suppose to appear neutral because we serve all taxpayers. And appearing neutral helps people feel they are treated more fairly. Using BLM as an example. BLM is contraversal and means a lot of different things to different people. It's not seen as a "not racist" badge. Thank you. I don't know if people are just dense or trolls. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Posted June 14, 2021 #17 Share Posted June 14, 2021 16 minutes ago, Setton said: So it's the fact of a statement you have an issue with, not whether it's political or not? Why then we're you saying public servants need to be apolitical earlier in this conversation? You are just playing with words for your personal amusement. What do you see as a political statement? Only things related to party politics, Labour, Tory, Republican, Democrat, etc? I see political as being broader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knob Oddy Posted June 14, 2021 #18 Share Posted June 14, 2021 2 minutes ago, ted hughes said: You are just playing with words for your personal amusement. What do you see as a political statement? Only things related to party politics, Labour, Tory, Republican, Democrat, etc? I see political as being broader. The BLM fist is in no way political It's just a massive coincidence that their logo is a political symbol that has an extensive history Also, thanks to Setton, I have just realized a way to eliminate racism. Just pin badges to people who are racist. Boom, no more racism. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setton Posted June 15, 2021 #19 Share Posted June 15, 2021 8 hours ago, ted hughes said: You are just playing with words for your personal amusement. What do you see as a political statement? Only things related to party politics, Labour, Tory, Republican, Democrat, etc? I see political as being broader. No, I'm pointing out the flaws in your logic to try and help you understand. You say you have an issue with public servants making political statements while working. You say that because of this, you oppose them making anti-racism gestures. You also say that racism isn't a political issue. That undermines the logic of your previous reasoning. So which is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Posted June 15, 2021 #20 Share Posted June 15, 2021 30 minutes ago, Setton said: No, I'm pointing out the flaws in your logic to try and help you understand. You say you have an issue with public servants making political statements while working. You say that because of this, you oppose them making anti-racism gestures. You also say that racism isn't a political issue. That undermines the logic of your previous reasoning. So which is it? of course racism is a political issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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