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Contacting ET is 'reckless', say astronomers

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mesuma
Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, toast said:

Its technically possible we to receive radio waves from civilizations which disappeared a long time ago in the same way as we receive photons from stars which disappeared billions of years ago. En-route is en-route, no matter what the sender`s status is.

And the "best way" would be?

Curious.

Yep I get you and I agree.  My issue with it is communication may be near impossible as either civilisation is either already dead or we are (depending on who's sending or receiving).  That is unless they are hiding on the dark side of the moon waiting for the ideal time to nab Jeff Bezos.

I don't have an answer to the best alternative.  I understand that at this time radio is the most reliable way to send messages.  I'm sure there are a few users on here who may have better ideas toward that answer.

Edited by mesuma

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Cookie Monster
17 hours ago, DreadLordAvatar said:

Doesn’t matter either way.  Humanity is doomed because too much evil is rooted among us already (corruption, greed, politicians, etc). Therefore the notion that making contact would unite all nations is voided.

Low agreeableness (what you call being selfish, greedy, and corrupt) is high in a species when its undergoing a bottleneck in genetic diversity. 

If you look at a group of apes they have low genetic diversity because all the sex going on is between relatives. The evolutionary counterbalance ensures that during this scenario it is the biggest, baddest, meanest, most aggressive, most violent ape, that claims the breeding rights. Hence low agreeableness is promoted and ensures the continuity of the species. To give it another name then psychopathy is favoured.

When genetic diversity is high then times are good and members of a species have high agreeableness. It pays to be cooperative, likeable, and nice to each other. The genetic diversity arises from females having available to them a large number of diversified males to choose from for breeding. Hence being pro-social rather than anti-social is favoured.

To get straight to the point then what you are proposing would actually reduce the survivability of our species. We have the capacity for both low and high agreeableness in our population. Should a comet hit, should a virus wipe out 99% of mankind, should something else go wrong creating a genetic bottleneck, then we would be grateful for the psychopathy in our population as it would ensure the highest chances of our species continuing. Until good times return increasing genetic diversity.

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Rlyeh
10 hours ago, mesuma said:

As I have said on here before, the people currently involved in the release of the navy videos seem to be trying to lead us down that path.  A Dr Davis who worked for AATIP even said he saw no evidence that these tic tacs etc were of an earthly nature or human origin.  I personally think it's bullhonk but again, supposed "critically" thinking people are insinuating these ideas.

I don't care what someone calls themselves, where is the evidence they came from space?

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Tom1200
9 hours ago, toast said:

And the "best way" would be?

Old-school: two tin cans and a very long string.  Or waving flags - that worked for centuries.  (There's no point just shouting loudly - sound don't go far in space.)

 

I can't see what all the fuss is about.  There are only a few ways we might be harmed by contact with extra-terrestrials:

They might be hostile.  Why?  This doesn't make sense.  There is nothing on Earth they will want.  Humans are on the cusp of the nanite era: soon we'll be able to build anything atom by atom.  One stage beyond that is the ability to manufacture nuclei of rare elements we desire.  Alien species able to travel the mind-boggling distances between stars and galaxies will have these technologies and probably several stages beyond - e.g. playing around with 'whatever quarks are made of' to build entirely new types of matter.  The notion that they would need our gold, water or oxygen is simply stupid.

They need human slaves.  Dumb as a cl*dking donkey, and that's swearing.

They might accidentally pose a danger.  With the emphasis on 'accidental':

  • Disease:  It's true that European explorers of the New World killed untold millions by introducing diseases.  But I think that was in the days before germ theory and microscopes and modern medicine and - you get the idea.  The aliens will be just as cautious of catching our diseases.  I'm sure the clever people from both species will do extensive biological tests to eliminate such issues.  (Maybe that's what the greys are doing, and why they're so interested in the bacteria of Americans' rectums.)
  • Incompatibility:  Perhaps the aliens themselves will pose a threat to our frail existence.  Maybe they are highly radioactive, or built from antimatter, or they're intelligent black holes, or they evolved on stars so require enormous temperatures.  Would Captain Kirk snog an alien babe who's 6000 C?  Or a lifeform built around liquid nitrogen at -200 C?
  • Too new:  By this I mean the introduction of alien ideas, knowledge and technology might overload our species' collective ability or will to exist.  Maybe they'll show us the path to unlimited energy is through feeding small black holes in each household, not comprehending that most of us can't look after a goldfish.  Or they might reveal that we really are in a simulation, and Earth is the drive where all the dodgy code is dumped and periodically wiped.
  • Collateral damage:  Perhaps we will be destroyed by mistake, by intergalactic warfare or 'some other reason' (e.g. Douglas Adams' hyperspace bypass)?  But IF that ever happens it will happen, whether we know about it in advance or not, so IMO it can only serve us well to be hollering "we're here! don't squish us!".

They might view us as a danger.  Really?  Why?  What damage can humanity really inflict on the Universe?  Sure, 20th century humans did a good job of destroying one little planet, but we've moved on from there.  Thanks to Greta No-fun-berg we're all eco-aware and not producing carbon dioxides, so by the time we start our interstellar adventures we'll be really alert to unintentional vandalism.  We'll pick up our space-litter and try not to terraform too many planets.  (Besides, the aliens might be plant-based and appreciate our ability to produce vast amounts of CO2.)

Have I missed anything?  In summary - there is no reason to fear ET contact, and the analogies offered in the article don't stand up to scrutiny.

 

 

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toast

BTW: I am urgently awaiting Seven of Nine

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naughtynick

The range of comments is certainly wide, encompassing: 1. It is extremely risky to contact alien species about which we know nothing, to 2. contacting alien species is essential to our own development -- just think of what we could learn.

Unfortunately, the search for intelligent life in the universe has to be extremely risky for even our smartest know how futile it is to speculate on intelligent alien nature and motivations given what little we know in the galactic scheme of things. While the potential benefits of communicating with alien species is no doubt huge, from a technological point of view, the question is whether it is worth the risk to be so informed.

Indeed, the theory that all intelligent life forms eventually evolve to extinction leaving behind only highly intelligent computing systems has some logical merit and, if so, likely none of the friendly sharing traits would remain.

If this theory does not apply, the time aspect is also relevant in that the probability that the more advanced alien species are at least thousands if not millions of years evolved past us and hence it would be impossible to comprehend their nature and character let alone their scientific achievements.

Indeed, what we can legitimately conclude is that the possible consequence of contacting the existing alien species is annihilation of the human race. That, I contend, is not a risk worth taking. Hence, I think the best course of action is to cease and desist playing with communicating with the unknown. If they are truly benevolent, they will seek us out if they wish to -- no need to rattle their cage.  

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mesuma
11 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

I don't care what someone calls themselves, where is the evidence they came from space?

So far they haven't shown us any.  That's why I said I thought it was bullhonk.

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Dejarma
3 hours ago, naughtynick said:

That, I contend, is not a risk worth taking. Hence, I think the best course of action is to cease and desist playing with communicating with the unknown.

i agree.. i've been saying this for years :tu:

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Freez1

One day someone will answer and we will know the answer

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naughtynick
10 hours ago, Freez1 said:

One day someone will answer and we will know the answer

Well, that type of futalistic simplicity is the reason those who seek to contact alien species are unfettered, irrespective of the high risk. Saying the sky is blue when faced with an issue with potentially dire consequences Is like leaving your Starbucks coffee cup on the street expecting someone else to clean up your mess. Surely, there must be more cerebral effort put to such an important issue.

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Tom1200
48 minutes ago, naughtynick said:

Well, that type of futalistic simplicity is the reason those who seek to contact alien species are unfettered, irrespective of the high risk. Saying the sky is blue when faced with an issue with potentially dire consequences Is like leaving your Starbucks coffee cup on the street expecting someone else to clean up your mess. Surely, there must be more cerebral effort put to such an important issue.

What risk?  I won't repeat my post #54 here except to ask - why would an alien species bother to harm us?  And if they are hostile, how could we ever prevent them from discovering us?  It's no use saying "this is dangerous, let's not do it".  

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Brandy333

While it would be exciting to actually communicate with an alien, assuming they are friendly and want to help, the fact of the matter is while some are friendly not all are.   

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Rlyeh
1 hour ago, Tom1200 said:

What risk?  I won't repeat my post #54 here except to ask - why would an alien species bother to harm us?

They may perceive humans as a threat.

 

1 hour ago, Tom1200 said:

  And if they are hostile, how could we ever prevent them from discovering us?  It's no use saying "this is dangerous, let's not do it".  

By not broad casting our location.

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Abramelin
On 6/15/2021 at 12:50 PM, UM-Bot said:

A group of astronomers have warned of the potential dangers of trying to contact intelligent extraterrestrials.

https://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/news/347818/contacting-et-is-reckless-say-astronomers

If we have balls/ovaries, we will face them head-on.

What's life without a real challenge, eh?

We all, as humans, faced challenges.

We survived for millions of years since we stopped swinging through trees and eating bananas.

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Abramelin
Posted (edited)
On 6/17/2021 at 10:58 AM, toast said:

BTW: I am urgently awaiting Seven of Nine

So am I.

Hmmmm.....

She has great ... uhm ... looks.

 

20210619_204433.jpg

Edited by Abramelin
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naughtynick
On 6/17/2021 at 2:37 AM, Tom1200 said:

Old-school: two tin cans and a very long string.  Or waving flags - that worked for centuries.  (There's no point just shouting loudly - sound don't go far in space.)

 

I can't see what all the fuss is about.  There are only a few ways we might be harmed by contact with extra-terrestrials:

They might be hostile.  Why?  This doesn't make sense.  There is nothing on Earth they will want.  Humans are on the cusp of the nanite era: soon we'll be able to build anything atom by atom.  One stage beyond that is the ability to manufacture nuclei of rare elements we desire.  Alien species able to travel the mind-boggling distances between stars and galaxies will have these technologies and probably several stages beyond - e.g. playing around with 'whatever quarks are made of' to build entirely new types of matter.  The notion that they would need our gold, water or oxygen is simply stupid.

They need human slaves.  Dumb as a cl*dking donkey, and that's swearing.

They might accidentally pose a danger.  With the emphasis on 'accidental':

  • Disease:  It's true that European explorers of the New World killed untold millions by introducing diseases.  But I think that was in the days before germ theory and microscopes and modern medicine and - you get the idea.  The aliens will be just as cautious of catching our diseases.  I'm sure the clever people from both species will do extensive biological tests to eliminate such issues.  (Maybe that's what the greys are doing, and why they're so interested in the bacteria of Americans' rectums.)
  • Incompatibility:  Perhaps the aliens themselves will pose a threat to our frail existence.  Maybe they are highly radioactive, or built from antimatter, or they're intelligent black holes, or they evolved on stars so require enormous temperatures.  Would Captain Kirk snog an alien babe who's 6000 C?  Or a lifeform built around liquid nitrogen at -200 C?
  • Too new:  By this I mean the introduction of alien ideas, knowledge and technology might overload our species' collective ability or will to exist.  Maybe they'll show us the path to unlimited energy is through feeding small black holes in each household, not comprehending that most of us can't look after a goldfish.  Or they might reveal that we really are in a simulation, and Earth is the drive where all the dodgy code is dumped and periodically wiped.
  • Collateral damage:  Perhaps we will be destroyed by mistake, by intergalactic warfare or 'some other reason' (e.g. Douglas Adams' hyperspace bypass)?  But IF that ever happens it will happen, whether we know about it in advance or not, so IMO it can only serve us well to be hollering "we're here! don't squish us!".

They might view us as a danger.  Really?  Why?  What damage can humanity really inflict on the Universe?  Sure, 20th century humans did a good job of destroying one little planet, but we've moved on from there.  Thanks to Greta No-fun-berg we're all eco-aware and not producing carbon dioxides, so by the time we start our interstellar adventures we'll be really alert to unintentional vandalism.  We'll pick up our space-litter and try not to terraform too many planets.  (Besides, the aliens might be plant-based and appreciate our ability to produce vast amounts of CO2.)

Have I missed anything?  In summary - there is no reason to fear ET contact, and the analogies offered in the article don't stand up to scrutiny.

 

 

Well said but I think you have missed the point. All you say makes sense to us with what intelligence and facts we have. The problem is that an intelligent alien life form is something that we cannot comprehend. We do know that not all human actions/reactions are logical.  We know that religion has had a strong influence on war like behaviour. We can all see what race differences can generate illogical hatred and acts of violance. We further know how different human thinking was 10,000 years ago ... just think what it might be in the year 3,000. We don't know. Hence, why would you presume to be so advanced that you can predict what the social norms would be of an entity so advanced that they can travel the universe? Hence to try and let them know where we are is risky and has benefits and consequences beyond our current comprehension.

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naughtynick
1 hour ago, Abramelin said:

So am I.

Hmmmm.....

She has great ... uhm ... looks.

 

20210619_204433.jpg

As one alien said "bag of mostly water" 

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razman
On 6/15/2021 at 11:38 AM, OverSword said:

If they have a prime directive I'm thinking line one would be:

  • No initiating contact before they are out of their own solar system.

And we are several hundred years from that I'm thinking.

Voyager made it out , we're ready.:D

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XenoFish
1 hour ago, razman said:

Voyager made it out , we're ready.:D

https://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/mission/status/

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NCC1701

There are no woke civilizations out there. They have ceased to exist many eons ago.

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naughtynick

Interesting comment. A few questions. What does "woke culture have to do with alien civilizations? What facts did you employ to conclude these civilizations ceased to exist eons ago? Im sure the answers would be interesting to the observers. 

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OverSword
2 hours ago, razman said:

Voyager made it out , we're ready.:D

I’m thinking the future is more Warhammer40k. May the Emperor bless you 

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XenoFish
1 hour ago, OverSword said:

I’m thinking the future is more Warhammer40k.

e44d54b01d679a151f570ce9c7d85cb3.png

Or

1fa485a56dee69b2f9fcfbf8c568ae0d.png

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Abramelin
8 hours ago, Brandy333 said:

While it would be exciting to actually communicate with an alien, assuming they are friendly and want to help, the fact of the matter is while some are friendly not all are.   

Which ones are not friendly?

Personally I never met any of those aliens.

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Brandy333
1 hour ago, Abramelin said:

Which ones are not friendly?

Personally I never met any of those aliens.

Experts claim there are 3 hostile Alien species visiting Earth | Ancient Code (ancient-code.com)

Have you met nice aliens?   I found this article, may be fact, fiction or a combination of both.   There have been stories of abductees who report their experience was not very pleasant.   I for one don't care to be abducted.

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