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The evolutionary place and function of spiritual and religious belief


Mr Walker
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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Not all spiritual people believe there is a higher power.

What is your frame for spiritual? For me, it just means introspection and there are many ways to keep it real. I would say science is one way.

Edited by Sherapy
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4 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

They are both vehicles or conveyances, but the one serves a single individual, while the other, the organized transportation of many.

transporting to where in this context?

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Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

transporting to where in this context?

This is not my quote Dejarma, it is hammer’s and it is a good inquiry.

Edited by Sherapy
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Posted (edited)
26 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Now, can you tell me what the word "spirit" means to you?

apart from alcohol it means nothing to me...

There is nothing bigger than us- there's nothing bigger than an ant or a blade of grass.

You don't exist/ then you do/ then you don't exist anymore= that's it!

This is the same for ants & blades of grass just as it is for us..

Oh yeah, nearly forgot:

In My Opinion;)

Edited by Dejarma
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Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

transporting to where in this context?

It's an analogy, illustrate how two things with similar traits can be very different. A motorcycle, like individual spirituality, takes one where one will, while a school bus, like religion, collects a group and takes them all to a specific material or religious destination.

Edited by Hammerclaw
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6 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

This is not my quote Dejarma, it is hammer’s and it is a good inquiry.

yeah it's not the first time this has happened in here:hmm: cheers

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5 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

It's an analogy

it's not a good analogy because the motorcycle could take an individual to a specific material or religious destination & vice-versa

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

it's not a good analogy because the motorcycle could take an individual to a specific material or religious destination & vice-versa

I could hear the ricochet from here, but I tried.  Analogies aren't suppose to be taken literally. What's your native language, anyway? 

Edited by Hammerclaw
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1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

I could here the ricochet from here, but I tried.  Analogies aren't suppose to be taken literally. What's your native language, anyway? 

started, yet again,  with the mild insults i see..imo it's not a good analogy . nice one hams me old mucker, carry on:tu:

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Just now, Dejarma said:

started, yet again,  with the mild insults i see..imo it's not a good analogy . nice one hams me old mucker, carry on:tu:

It's not an insult, it's an observation. Everyone here understands what I said, what was meant, except you. You're ether incredibly dense, or have decided to be a pain, as usual.:yes:

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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Everyone here understands what I said,

so what point were you making with your analogy then? 

Quote

What's your native language, anyway? 

mild or not ^ is an insult suggesting i don't get things right because my first language is not English! you started it like you always do.. anyways, no worries;)

Edited by Dejarma
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4 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

It is illegal in the U.S. to ask about religion on a job application or during a job interview.

Hi Desertrat

Yes it has been many years that it is illegal to as age, religion, or heritage 

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Just now, Dejarma said:

so what point were you making with your analogy then? 

mild or not ^ is an insult suggesting i talk crap because my first language is not English! you started it like you always do.. anyways, no worries;)

It was a possibility, since you don't seem to understand or comprehend the written word. We have several posters using translation software in the forums and some concepts don't travel well in translation. Then you insult me, because couldn't understand the meaning or purpose of an analogy. Well, that's what I get for actually trying to help you understand. You'd think I'd know better by now.

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4 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Then you insult me, because couldn't understand the meaning or purpose of an analogy.

well there it is then= I didn't agree with your analogy & you're classing that as an insult!?!? I rest my case

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1 minute ago, Dejarma said:

well there it is then= I didn't agree with your analogy & you're classing that as an insult!?!? I rest my case

Anything that put's you to rest is fine with me. Cherish the respite.

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4 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Observe people.

Hi Walker

Thanks for getting back. I have spent a lifetime observing people and given our discussions we do not see people the same way which is why I asked about how/what/who exist in the levels and how many levels of human do you have?

4 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Sure there are some genetic differences in their capabilities but mainly their level of life is determined by their effort, will, and discipline. ie how much the y make the effort to USE those abilities  

So are there 2 levels you and the genetically flawed ? What parameters are you using in making these determinations? I find the last part of your comment interesting as there are some of us that wonder about how hard you have applied your abilities as you do claim certain superiorities over others and yet according to you your sibs applied themselves and achieved reward according to the investment of themselves and hold wealth. One should always paint the floor with the door to your back or you end up waiting for the paint to dry.:D

4 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

I think you make a high use of your own, but I bet you can see others who are just as intelligent as you but who struggle with life .

Thanks and yes I know people far more intelligent than me that struggle with life lots of people do from all walks of life.

4 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

i speak to others while doing other things 

typically 30 mins in the bakery  30 minutes in the library  20 minutes in the opportunity shop   30 minutes doing other shopping  I'd speak to half a dozen people in the street whom i know, as well 

Then we have several visitors every day and i visit our neighbours  where i would speak with  another half a dozen people 

I go to the caravan park every day to speak with travellers and i meet a few  borrowing books/dvds from  the book and dvd exchange i run from  our house 

okay so that's what 4-5 hours a day not bad and good that you get the contact.

4 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Finally there are the people i meet selling stuff 

Are you selling produce from your garden, or do you buy and sell items that you can make a buck on?

4 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

My childhood sounds similar to yours but we only spoke one language  I was read to every night from  birth for a considerable time and picked up reading while i was 2/3 years old  

Yes I was read to as well and read to my kids and grand-daughter and taught her to follow my finger as I read and  when she knew thew stories well enough she would read one story to me after I read her 2 books/stories.

4 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

if you encounter the cosmic consciousness you will know it. It is a bit like the first time you fall in love, but more intense and wider reaching in your mind.  Eastern philosophies have a better understanding and appreciation of it than our " materialist" western ones. 

I am not really a materialist in the sense that I desire material goods. I don't follow any philosophy life is fluid and so am I and unless there is credible documentation on cosmic consciousness then I have to depend on a million interpretations of what it is which does not satisfy my criteria for objective study and classification.

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On 7/14/2021 at 6:58 AM, Manwon Lender said:

Well my friend that may be true where you live, but it isn't working here!

Naturally. I can do nothing more for anyone online than offer advice. 

IRL I can also physically help people. 

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On 7/14/2021 at 9:11 AM, lightly said:

I have nothing to contribute on topic...just wanted to add..

I'm glad to see you Mr. Walker.   I was a little worried about you   :)

       I'm still concerned about not seeing Cormac for awhile. .   .

And now ,back to the usual love fest  :P

 

Thanks for your concern.  It is appreciated.

Just been increasingly busy in real life 

My wife requires increasing help with domestic duties , and  I am involved in a lot of community work. 

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On 7/14/2021 at 9:23 AM, lightly said:

Wow!   Waybackwhen... I don't think any of us kids in Fife Lake read by age 3...I don't think I even read Dick and Jane and spot,  till 1st. grade :P.       

Kids pick up what the y are exposed to. I was exposed to reading and  adult conversation, but only in one language.

'A child can become fluent in about 3 languages, but after that it becomes more difficult.  A child can learn to read aged about 2 or 3 if they are exposed to reading and shown how to read  Reading is the most significant of indicator of success a t school, and in later life,  although it is not the only one 

Today, parents are often  discouraged from  teaching their children to read before the y go to school but back in my day we were expected to be able to read,  do simple arithmetic, and  know our times tables BEFORE starting school

I was reading  all of Enid Blyton's books from  about the age of 3/4 and more advanced young adult books by age 5 or 6 eg the Bobbsey twins , now having a revival for kids aged 9-12,   and the Tom Swift (senior) novels. Indeed my grandmother had to borrow books out for me in her name from about the age of 7  because kids weren't allowed to borrow anything from  the adult section until the y were 13, and i had read everything in the children's section .

  My parents philosophy was that, if i was competent to read something, i was allowed to read it   I read the daily paper at the dinner table from  about the age of 5, and got interested in politics, history, and geography, while doing so  

 

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18 hours ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Yep, his feats are nothing special. I have an exceptionally vivid recollection of the very moment that the words on the page (reading The Pokey Little Puppy) started to make sense to me when I was about three years old.

The nurses in the hospital also told me that around that age I was also laughing at the jokes in Archie comics as they read them to me.

Kids are sponges for knowledge and information, but Walker just has a knack for making something relatively common seem like it's unique to him, and that he's somehow more advanced than others because of it. :lol:

 

I agree It is quite possible for a child to learn this at a similar age 

However most do not 

most kids cant read before the y go to school, and  many never become functionally literate, let alone competent readers 

This is the modern expectation for reading at age 5, whereas i and others were reading the newspaper aged 5 

quote

At age 5, 

Reading Development

Enjoys being read to and pretends to read aloud from a book 

Can produce rhymes

Knows most letters and can match some letters to the sounds they make

Can match some written and spoken words

Can write some letters and numbers

Likes to retell simple stories and asks questions about books

Your Checklist for Reading Development:

BOB Books: Rhyming Words — From the series that has helped countless children learn how to read on their own, this book box includes ten mini-books and 30 flashcards that help kids learn to recognize rhyming patterns and build their reading skills.

Write and Wipe Practice Flip Book: ABC 123 — A hands-on way to learn how to write numbers and letters is with this flip book geared at early learners; it provides your little learner with a reusable, wipe-clean surface to practice writing her ABCs and 123s.

https://www.scholastic.com/parents/family-life/guides-to-life-learning/what-your-child-should-know-age-5.html

quote

How five to six year olds learn

5-6 year olds learn name recognitionMany class teachers will begin with a child’s name as a reading point as many children already know their name and can identify the letters in their name. This helps them feel confident about beginning the ‘learn to read process’. Provide your child with models of their own name at home which they can copy from.

5-6 year olds learn letters and soundsPre-schoolers often know their A,B,Cs however the first year of school is about learning the sounds which correspond with each letter. There are many phonics programs used nationally. Most programs begin by teaching children the letters in the sequence of a,m,s,t,I,f,d. This is due to each letter looking, sounding and being articulated (formed with the tongue and lips) differently which minimises confusion. Help your child by saying and singing silly tongue twisters. This will help your child become sensitive to the sounds in words.

5-6 year olds are learning the concepts of printAs pre-schoolers children are encouraged to become confident handling books. This is continued further by children this age as they learn ‘concepts of print’. Concepts of print is referring to holding the book correctly, identifying the title of a text, understanding that the front cover or title page often tells us what the story will be about, identifying the illustrator, directionality reading left from right and the return sweep (returning from the right hand side of the page to begin reading the next line on the left hand side).

5-6 year olds are learning letters vs words vs sentencesChildren will learn that letters form words, which are then strung together in order to form sentences. States differ on the way of teaching this. When the teacher starts with sentences it is called a Top Down approach and when they begin with building words from letters it is a Bottoms Up approach.

5-6 year olds will learn to sound outTeachers may describe the first words your child learns to read as CVC (consonant, vowel, consonant) words such as dad, mum and cat. Your child will learn to hear and identify each single sound and then pull the sounds apart and then slide them back together again. This skill helps with learning to write and spell words. Your child is not yet able to tell you how many syllables a word has but they can clap the number of sounds they hear in a word. Clapping games at home help them practice these skills.

https://www.kidspot.com.au/parenting/preschool/literacy-milestones-56/news-story/593f852695bc41b4c980643acc25bdb4

 this is really a pathetically low expectation for children 

Basically, if you wait until school age for your child to learn to read and write, the y will almost certainly never achieve their full potential

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15 hours ago, closed for business said:

Hi Liquid Gardens

My mom was a teacher so we always had learning games and I have some great memories of my early years as they were full of fun adventure and at times pain but cookies and ice cream cured everything. I had favourite stories in the fairytale section of the encyclopedia and memorized them from mom reading them to me and following her finger on the words which is how I learned how to read. I was 5 when we got our first tv and there was no Sesame Street in those days bud did enjoy Spanky and the Gang, Red Rider, The Bowery Boys but there were no child oriented learning shows at that time in my life so not much influence through that medium.

I know what you mean by knowing who the pretties girls were too.:D

I think the lack of television was great asset in learning to read,  and in developing competency in it, and a love of it. I was about  8 before we got a TV and even then we could only watch an hour or two each day. 

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

It is illegal in the U.S. to ask about religion on a job application or during a job interview.

Interesting Here  it is also much less common but is replaced by compatibility criteria eg if your lifestyle is not compatible with the expectations and roles of your job then you can be denied work.

quote

"Cultural questions assess the 'fit' for the cultural of the business, for example, if the business has a strong core value of 'giving back' they will be seeking employees that also follow this philosophy in life."

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-03-19/questions-you-cannot-be-asked-in-a-job-interview/9554954

also you CAN be asked, if the employment is with a religious organisation.

Hence employers  check face book and other media of  potential employees (and existing ones) to see if the y match the ethos and expectations of the company Some have been fired for face book posts which went against company ethos   

While we have the same constitutional wording on the separation of  church and state, it is interpreted differently here 

Edited by Mr Walker
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Cringe worthy... 

Quote

 

[00.06:33]

 

~

 

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5 hours ago, Sherapy said:

 

In the Eastern philosophies, going off these posts it is an attachment to ego, self absorbed.  Dopamine and oxytocin contribute to the feeling you talk about.

‘You are not enlightened nor did you go thru a gnosis of any kind. Very few are. You do not understand enlightenment and you are not enlightened, that is what you demonstrate at least in the eastern sense. 
 

We don’t care about what you did or didn’t accomplish, just a FYI you have a new story every time you come on, you don’t need to bamboozle us for approval or acceptance. You are a simple guy that chose a simple life there is nothing wrong with that. It seems very difficult for you to just be good with that. 
 

MW, coulda, woulda, shoulda done is meaningless, the path you walked is the path you walked. You have a lot of ego attachment to things even things that you didn’t do. Just a suggestion let go of your ego see where it leads you. I would love to hear about it too. 

‘My two cents, you have an amazing opportunity to be an amazing caregiver to your wife . Spend your time really connecting with her find a way to do that and share your journey, I for one will love to hear about it. 
 

Truly, all the best to you and your wife. 
 

You are entitled to your opinion but its factually incorrect.

you also have a limited understanding of eastern vs western values  and beliefs,  and, as with all things, adapt them to fit your own beliefs .

What i write is true and unexaggerated Take it as you like, but unless you believe it, you will NEVER understand me or my life 

Iindeed; i have a very healthy ego and attachment.   You seem to see that as a fault, rather than a strength. 

One can't let go of one's life.

As you say; it is what it is.

Hopefully, it is  a life filled with power, wonder, joy love happiness etc.,  and when you die you have made the world a better place. 

Have faith in yourself, and your ability to change the world, and to help others.

Take justifiable pride in the things you achieve, through hard work, and discipline . 

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5 hours ago, Dejarma said:

I love these words:

I don't believe in god but I am spiritual

imo spiritual and religious are the same thing

No that is only your opinion, which is fine. To me personally Spirituality means knowing that our lives have significance in a context beyond a mundane everyday existence at the level of biological needs that drive selfishness and aggression. It means knowing that we are a significant part of a purposeful unfolding of Life in our universe. 

Spirituality involves exploring certain universal themes – love, compassion, altruism, life after death, wisdom and truth, with the knowledge that some people such as enlightened individuals have achieved and manifested higher levels of development than the ordinary person. Aspiring to manifest the attributes of such inspirational examples often becomes an important part of the journey through life for spiritually inclined people. 

The spiritual journey involves first healing and affirming the ego so that positive states are experienced; with secure self-esteem, belief in self-worth and a capacity for love and generosity, a person becomes less constrained by ego defences. An opening of the heart is an essential aspect of true spirituality. 

Above is what Spirituality means to me, according to Buddhist Teaching, now I must admit honestly that I did not design or compose the model of Spirituality above. However, for me this is what Spirituality is and it is not based upon any God or Divine being. It is purely designed to improve ones self and once achieved to continue the search for the truth of life itself.

JIMO

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