LightAngel Posted June 26, 2021 #26 Share Posted June 26, 2021 30 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said: I hope you realize I am not some conspiracy nut, claiming that the aliens are coming, because I dont believe that at all. You shouldn't worry about what others think of you. 36 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said: But, one thing I am glad about, all these so called debunkers also can't pull out the doctored videos anymore and claim this all a fake news hoax. If they continue to make their claims they are being disingenuous, because really now either the US Government is behind a hoax, is covering something up, or is trying divert attention away from something else, or just maybe they really can explain what's happening either. The simplest answer is often the right one. There's a lot we don't know. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpenMindedSceptic Posted June 26, 2021 #27 Share Posted June 26, 2021 UFO's have been denied for decades by governments now they've finally admitted that there's something there. One of the pilots in the tic tac incident mentioned that the capabilities of the UFO were way beyond anything we have. So we have a super power nation somewhere on planet earth who has been flying through our skies for centuries and we don't yet know about them. Oh, or they may be alien. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaz Posted June 26, 2021 #28 Share Posted June 26, 2021 59 minutes ago, OpenMindedSceptic said: UFO's have been denied for decades by governments now they've finally admitted that there's something there. One of the pilots in the tic tac incident mentioned that the capabilities of the UFO were way beyond anything we have. So we have a super power nation somewhere on planet earth who has been flying through our skies for centuries and we don't yet know about them. Oh, or they may be alien. If anyone is surprised then they know nothing about the subject. Straight and simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nuclear Wessel Posted June 26, 2021 #29 Share Posted June 26, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, OpenMindedSceptic said: UFO's have been denied for decades by governments now they've finally admitted that there's something there. They have identified that there are encounters in which craft/objects are otherwise unidentified, at some point in time. What you're thinking about is "aliens"--the notion of ET visitation has been denied for decades. Quote One of the pilots in the tic tac incident mentioned that the capabilities of the UFO were way beyond anything we have. Which means nothing. Quote So we have a super power nation somewhere on planet earth who has been flying through our skies for centuries and we don't yet know about them. For centuries? No. There are nations that have been violating controlled airspace for many years, though... so it wouldn't be surprising to me in the slightest if any (or all) of the tech demonstrated is from other powers, or even the US' own (and other facets being ignorant of them, for whatever reason--miscommunications, need-to-know basis, etc). Quote Oh, or they may be alien. The most simple (and most logical) explanation is terrestrial, not extraterrestrial. We have zero evidence whatsoever of any form of ET visitation. Edited June 26, 2021 by Nuclear Wessel 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OpenMindedSceptic Posted June 26, 2021 #30 Share Posted June 26, 2021 1 hour ago, Nuclear Wessel said: They have identified that there are encounters in which craft/objects are otherwise unidentified, at some point in time. What you're thinking about is "aliens"--the notion of ET visitation has been denied for decades. Which means nothing. For centuries? No. There are nations that have been violating controlled airspace for many years, though... so it wouldn't be surprising to me in the slightest if any (or all) of the tech demonstrated is from other powers, or even the US' own (and other facets being ignorant of them, for whatever reason--miscommunications, need-to-know basis, etc). The most simple (and most logical) explanation is terrestrial, not extraterrestrial. We have zero evidence whatsoever of any form of ET visitation. Only, they have been seen for centuries. So... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papageorge1 Posted June 26, 2021 #31 Share Posted June 26, 2021 7 hours ago, M 7 said: It’s an interesting read but it essentially just maintains the status quo, it doesn’t rule out the possibility that some UAP's are extraterrestrial in origin but it certainly doesn’t offer any evidence that they are either. So where do you suggest my common sense is going astray when I think highly likely 'this is aliens' when we are told of sophisticated UAP crafts far beyond any technology the U.S. government knows about. It seems like you would have to be rather creative to think of anything but 'alien'. And for me an official government report is just one piece of information in my overall consideration. Governments can have agendas they must follow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted June 26, 2021 #32 Share Posted June 26, 2021 My best guess is that these "UFO's" are experimental aircraft. Going from memory, I think there were a lot of triangle ufo sightings before the stealth bomber was made public knowledge. Wouldn't surprise me if some of the objects were advanced surveillance/combat drones. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nuclear Wessel Posted June 26, 2021 #33 Share Posted June 26, 2021 31 minutes ago, OpenMindedSceptic said: Only, they have been seen for centuries. So... No, people with wild imaginations have been observing perfectly natural phenomena for centuries. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nuclear Wessel Posted June 26, 2021 #34 Share Posted June 26, 2021 Just now, XenoFish said: Going from memory, I think there were a lot of triangle ufo sightings before the stealth bomber was made public knowledge. You're thinking of the B-2 Stealth Bomber, and you're correct. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted June 26, 2021 #35 Share Posted June 26, 2021 Just now, Nuclear Wessel said: You're thinking of the B-2 Stealth Bomber, and you're correct. I knew it was something like that. It's a mistake to automatically assume it's aliens. Who knows, might be experimental space craft that are being tested out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nuclear Wessel Posted June 26, 2021 #36 Share Posted June 26, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, XenoFish said: I knew it was something like that. It's a mistake to automatically assume it's aliens. Who knows, might be experimental space craft that are being tested out. I always wonder "what other logical assumption can be made?". Inability for a specific personnel to identify a craft != aliens. Denial of aliens != aliens. Refusal by the government to address specific encounters, sightings, etc... != aliens. "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" != aliens. The idea of ET visitation is certainly alluring... but it's just not likely, and we have no evidence for it. There really isn't a logical reason to assert that strange happenings on our planet are anything but terrestrial/natural in origin, IMO. Edited June 26, 2021 by Nuclear Wessel 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted June 26, 2021 #37 Share Posted June 26, 2021 8 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said: I always wonder "what other logical assumption can be made?". Inability for a specific personnel to identify a craft != aliens. Denial of aliens != aliens. Refusal by the government to address specific encounters, sightings, etc... != aliens. "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" != aliens. The idea of ET visitation is certainly alluring... but it's just not likely, and we have no evidence for it. There really isn't a logical reason to assert that strange happenings on our planet are anything but terrestrial/natural in origin, IMO. It's too easy to fall back to the alien answer. I'll believe it is really aliens when they start popping up over cities across the world and hover there for days on end. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted June 26, 2021 #38 Share Posted June 26, 2021 Aliens have become the new god of gaps. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kartikg Posted June 26, 2021 #39 Share Posted June 26, 2021 It's highly unlikely that any other government has come up with tech like this, the sheer amount of money and resources poured by USA government in defense is unparalleled, not to mention the intelligence network, its highly unlikely someone nation came up with such tech so many years ago. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M 7 Posted June 26, 2021 #40 Share Posted June 26, 2021 2 hours ago, papageorge1 said: So where do you suggest my common sense is going astray when I think highly likely 'this is aliens' when we are told of sophisticated UAP crafts far beyond any technology the U.S. government knows about. It seems like you would have to be rather creative to think of anything but 'alien'. And for me an official government report is just one piece of information in my overall consideration. Governments can have agendas they must follow. There’s nothing wrong with you thinking this points towards aliens it’s just that there’s nothing in the report that provides any evidence that they’re aliens. That’s the crucial part, it’s perfectly fine for you to have an opinion that this is probably evidence of extraterrestrials but there’s nothing in there that comes remotely close to confirming this as a fact. Now I addressed this in my original post but as per your request I'll recap it again. First of all the acknowledged collection bias towards sighting around military installations or by military personnel mean that nobody has observed them either entering or exiting the atmosphere, there’s no mention of biological evidence or actual sightings of who or what might be piloting these craft, they’ve not been able to conclusively rule out that these are experimental US or foreign craft etc etc. Don’t get me wrong, there’s some interesting things in there as well. I particularly like the acknowledgment that some of these sightings have been observed by multiple different monitoring devices and whilst equipment can create false readings these should be considered mostly accurate. I’m similarly pleased to see the formal admission that this phenomena appears to be solid vehicles, that some of them perform manoeuvres not considered possible at our current level of technology and that some don’t have any discernible form of propulsion. I find these claims in a formal government document to be quite exciting but I also cannot ignore the fact that these observations are anecdotal. I’d love to learn more of what our governments know of this phenomena and I really do hope this is a first step in bringing more credibility to the field of study. I just don’t think there’s anything particularly revelatory in the released unclassified document and from the way the story seems to already pretty much buried I’m not convinced that it will change much either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bison Posted June 26, 2021 #41 Share Posted June 26, 2021 The long-awaited report admits that a number of the UAP reports examined very probably involve real, mechanical objects, and that some of these exhibit highly anomalous motions, not reasonably attributable to Earthly flying machines. They then claim that these motions might be explained as observer errors, detection equipment faults, or 'spoofing' countermeasures by the objects themselves. A number of these reports involve multiple means of detection, including radar tracking, infrared optical images, and visual observations. All of these would have had to fail at the same time, and in such a way as to produce similar illusions. This seems highly unlikely. The report states that there is no evidence here of an extraterrestrial presence. This may be true, but only in a very narrow, evasive sense. Some little effort to interpret the evidence allows a quite reasonable inference of the actions of an ET intelligence. The military, and the office of national intelligence places themselves in a highly tendentious position. In effect, they are asking that an alien spacecraft land on the deck of an aircraft carrier, so that they can kick the tires of the landing gear, and read 'Alpha Centauri Motors' off the license plate frame, before they will believe. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
+Nuclear Wessel Posted June 26, 2021 #42 Share Posted June 26, 2021 1 hour ago, kartikg said: It's highly unlikely that any other government has come up with tech like this, Tech like what, exactly? Quote the sheer amount of money and resources poured by USA government in defense is unparalleled, not to mention the intelligence network, its highly unlikely someone nation came up with such tech so many years ago. Even if it’s highly unlikely that still makes it significantly more likely than ET. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnatcole Posted June 26, 2021 #43 Share Posted June 26, 2021 (edited) 20 hours ago, Dejarma said: no, it does not- you're fantasizing; trying to make something out of nothing, as folk like your good self always do. Good try but if it works for you then who am I to argue= enjoy 3 hours ago, Nuclear Wessel said: I always wonder "what other logical assumption can be made?". Inability for a specific personnel to identify a craft != aliens. Denial of aliens != aliens. Refusal by the government to address specific encounters, sightings, etc... != aliens. "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" != aliens. The idea of ET visitation is certainly alluring... but it's just not likely, and we have no evidence for it. There really isn't a logical reason to assert that strange happenings on our planet are anything but terrestrial/natural in origin, IMO. I want to ask you two something. Why do you feel need to try and tell people that believe it's aliens, that it's not aliens? The both of you and I can say well I don't think it's aliens, but why go after people like Papageorge like that? Why does it matter what they think and how do all three of us know for sure it's not aliens. I would never tell anybody directly, no it's not aliens because I'm not one hundred percent sure. Because this is not like ancient history were we have evidence proving that ancient aliens did not build our civilizations, We know they didn't because we have proof it was our ancestors. But this is a whole different thing going on in our modern times, because we have no proof it's not aliens. And the these people putting out this report are being vague about this, giving us just enough information to build up to something. As if they're holding back something for a later surprise. I don't know what that is, but i know when I smell rat. I don't know about you two, but I don't want to go around telling people like I know for sure it's not aliens and they don't know what they're talking about, and maybe put my foot in my mouth. All I will say is, hey I don't think it's aliens. I'm not convinced yet. But why do you and a few others here feel the need to tell others how they should think about this? Edited June 26, 2021 by oldnatcole 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trelane Posted June 26, 2021 #44 Share Posted June 26, 2021 4 hours ago, XenoFish said: I knew it was something like that. It's a mistake to automatically assume it's aliens. Who knows, might be experimental space craft that are being tested out. You're getting warmer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted June 26, 2021 #45 Share Posted June 26, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, oldnatcole said: why go after people like Papageorge like that? PG has promoted a proven fraud before. He's also the first to proclaim near 100% certain that something is paranormal or supernatural. He is a prime example of bad faith. He will also defend any and all paranormal claim no matter how absurd. Even going to the point of advising someone to get a psychic rather than take their ailing mother for a mental health check up. So yeah, that's off the top of my head. To clarify I'm using the existentialism definition of bad faith. (in existentialist philosophy) refusal to confront facts or choices. Edited June 26, 2021 by XenoFish 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docyabut2 Posted June 26, 2021 #46 Share Posted June 26, 2021 I believe all those UFO`s are just from our space junk:) https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/techandscience/new-spacecraft-sustainability-rating-targets-space-junk/ar-AALhxzl?ocid=uxbndlbing#image=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnatcole Posted June 26, 2021 #47 Share Posted June 26, 2021 25 minutes ago, XenoFish said: PG has promoted a proven fraud before. He's also the first to proclaim near 100% certain that something is paranormal or supernatural. He is a prime example of bad faith. He will also defend any and all paranormal claim no matter how absurd. Even going to the point of advising someone to get a psychic rather than take their ailing mother for a mental health check up. So yeah, that's off the top of my head. To clarify I'm using the existentialism definition of bad faith. (in existentialist philosophy) refusal to confront facts or choices. And the others? That think it's aliens? Are those the same reasons to go after them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenoFish Posted June 26, 2021 #48 Share Posted June 26, 2021 7 minutes ago, oldnatcole said: And the others? That think it's aliens? Are those the same reasons to go after them? More specifically him. As for what others believe, they don't push it as facts. I personally think alien life does exist in some form. Be it basic and/or complex. However I don't think it is visiting us. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Duck Posted June 26, 2021 #49 Share Posted June 26, 2021 9 hours ago, OpenMindedSceptic said: UFO's have been denied for decades by governments now they've finally admitted that there's something there. One of the pilots in the tic tac incident mentioned that the capabilities of the UFO were way beyond anything we have. So we have a super power nation somewhere on planet earth who has been flying through our skies for centuries and we don't yet know about them. Oh, or they may be alien. False dichotomy. The report says some UAP could be explained by nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Duck Posted June 26, 2021 #50 Share Posted June 26, 2021 5 hours ago, Nuclear Wessel said: You're thinking of the B-2 Stealth Bomber, and you're correct. Another thing with the stealh aircraft is that they were meant to painted in a pastel grey to be harder to see. It is said the pilots wamtec a more imposing black paint job; but, perhaps black is a good choice for counterintelligence purposes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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