quillius Posted June 30, 2021 #101 Share Posted June 30, 2021 4 hours ago, Tiggs said: Believe you've misinterpreted my position -- which was that there's no reason to do further analysis on the possibility of breakthrough technology being involved, unless the object has initially exhibited the characteristics of breakthrough technology. I'm not attempting to dismiss anything. What I'm doing is attempting to show that there are apparently cases that have exhibited the characteristics of breakthrough technology. I guess there is also the other issue of what exactly is defined as breakthrough technology? ie I would imagine this varies from one person (body) to another......and would also vary from country to country...... Just my two cents worth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted June 30, 2021 #102 Share Posted June 30, 2021 1 hour ago, ufoguy said: So wats the explanation for those ufos then? Why do they look like the dropa stones? Lmao. Dropa stones? Is there any hoax you don't believe? 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom1200 Posted June 30, 2021 #103 Share Posted June 30, 2021 1 hour ago, ufoguy said: So wats the explanation for those ufos then? Why do they look like the dropa stones? While we're scraping the barrel... 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quillius Posted June 30, 2021 #104 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Bed Rich Quotes: (have highlighted the most relevant to my points regarding regarding establishing 'breakthrough technology'. “We did the F-104, C-130, U2, SR-71, F-117 and many other programs that I can’t talk about. We are still working very hard, I just can’t tell you what we are doing. (source: 1993 WPAFB slide presentation) “The Air Force has just given us a contract to take ET back home” (source: 1993 WPAFB slide presentation) “We already have the means to travel among the stars, but these technologies are locked up in black projects and it would take an act of GOD to ever get them out to benefit humanity” (source: statement made after UCLA presentation to three Disclosure Project witnesses) “We now have the technology to take ET back home” (source: UCLA School of Engineering Alumni speech 3/23/93) “We now know how to travel to the stars” (source: UCLA School of Engineering Alumni speech 3/23/93) “There is an error in the equations, and we have figured it out, and now know how to travel to the stars, and it won’t take a lifetime to do it” (source: UCLA School of Engineering Alumni speech 3/23/93) “It is time to end all secrecy on this, as it no longer poses a national security threat, and make the technology available for use in the private sector”. (source: UCLA School of Engineering Alumni speech 3/23/93) “There are many in the intelligence community who would like to see this stay in the black, and not see the light of day” (source: UCLA School of Engineering Alumni speech 3/23/93) “Jim, we have things out in the desert that are fifty (50) years beyond what you could possibly comprehend. If you have seen it on Star Wars or Star Trek, we’ve been there done that, or decided it was not worth the effort” (Source: direct comments by Ben Rich to Jim Goodall via telephone call at the USC medical center approximately one week before Ben passed away on January 5th 1995) “Dear John, Yes, I’m a believer in both categories. Feel anything is possible. Many of our man-made UFO’s were Un Funded Opportunities. In both categories, there are a-lot of books and charlatans, be careful. Best regards, Ben Rich”. (source: 7/21/86 letter to John Andrews (Testors model Corporation) from Ben Rich who asked Ben if he was a believer in A) man made UFO’S, and extra-terrestrial UFO’s) “We have some new things. We are not stagnating. What we are doing is updating ourselves, without advertising. There are some new programs, and there are certain things-some of them 20 or 30 years old-that are still break-throughs and appropriate to keep quiet about. Other people don’t have them yet. (source: statement made by Ben Rich to Stuart F. Brown in an interview published in Popular Science October 1994) “I wish I could tell you about the projects we are currently working on. They are both fascinating and fantastic. They call for technologies once only dreamed of by science fiction writers”. (source: AIAA lecture Atlanta, Ga. September 7-9 1988 for what its worth....just food for thought 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted June 30, 2021 #105 Share Posted June 30, 2021 4 hours ago, ufoguy said: So wats the explanation for those ufos then? Why do they look like the dropa stones? You didnt watch the video i posted so you are now posting from your ignorance, Get real a lot of non ufo non alien junk looks like dropa stones which by the way have more BS than a texas cattle ranch, im sorry you fell for the dropa stone hoax but im not surprized you think it must be aliens, thats your go to. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted June 30, 2021 #106 Share Posted June 30, 2021 9 hours ago, Tom1200 said: Are you suggesting that people at NASA might actually know something about 'looking at things in space'? Why are you so quick to reject the obvious conclusion: as soon as the tether snapped hundreds of miles-wide flying saucers (with holes in them) 'swarmed' to inspect this mysterious new feature? And then disappeared again just as quickly? Surely the real mystery here is: why were the aliens not interested in the experiment before the tether snapped? I have a theory or two about that (but I would rather wait to see what happens before I say what I think). Astronomers only come out at night. Aliens have worked this out, so they hide by night and only fly in daylight hours. (This also saves the batteries.) That's why there is no corroborating evidence for most UFO sightings so you'll just have to take Brassboy's word for it. (If he was going to make up a story he would have included battles and laser beams and dead Rancors and dark matter grenades and stuff.) Hope Springs Eternal. Don't be such a spoilsport! Why should we let trivial details like facts or logic get in the way of a good conspiracy theory? Don't be such a spoilsport! Why should we let trivial details like facts or logic get in the way of a good conspiracy theory? I assure you i do not have to and will not take anyones "word for it" you might be one to believe stories with no evidence to support them not me. You posted so much out right babbling bs im not going to waste time addressing it, Had you watched this video you might not have made such a riduculous reply. 12 hours ago, the13bats said: Um no they are not, that case was well explained and debunked, sorry you fell for it how very humiliating for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ufoguy Posted June 30, 2021 #107 Share Posted June 30, 2021 3 hours ago, the13bats said: You didnt watch the video i posted so you are now posting from your ignorance, Get real a lot of non ufo non alien junk looks like dropa stones which by the way have more BS than a texas cattle ranch, im sorry you fell for the dropa stone hoax but im not surprized you think it must be aliens, thats your go to. Just explain it to me…. Why does the debris,..( all of them) have a hole in the middle that pulsates and a notch on side of the disk…. And also one of them be 3 miles long measured against the tether ? And they don’t bump into each other as they move? Some slow down some are faster than other… all moving in different direction and no collisions….not to mention they all have a pulsating hole in the middle… What kind of debris is that? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrLzs Posted June 30, 2021 #108 Share Posted June 30, 2021 7 minutes ago, ufoguy said: Just explain it to me…. We really shouldn't have to... you brought up a completely unrelated case and clearly hadn't done any research whatsoever. Even a quick peek at the Wiki would have given you plenty of references. But for the sake of completion, I'll bite. Maybe someone will learn something. 7 minutes ago, ufoguy said: Why does the debris,..( all of them) have a hole in the middle that pulsates and a notch on side of the disk… BOKEH. Look it up. It's the same reason one of the recent videos shows triangular out of focus shapes - those shapes are from the aperture/lens design. This is Photography 101 - "What happens to objects that are not accurately focused". The pulsating comes from the objects rotating/spinning and reflecting light in a repeating pattern. 7 minutes ago, ufoguy said: And also one of them be 3 miles long measured against the tether ? Unless you properly take into account perspective and distance, such a claim is absolutely meaningless. Either explain how you calculated that figure or don't make claims. 7 minutes ago, ufoguy said: And they don’t bump into each other as they move? They do, but they are scattered and at varying distances, so that won't happen often. Stop handwaving. 7 minutes ago, ufoguy said: Some slow down some are faster than other… all moving in different direction and no collisions… Be specific. Of course they will have varying speeds and move in different directions - they come from different sources and / or have been sprayed out (in different directions). You claim some slow down inexplicably? Which ones - cite the best example and its timing in the video. 7 minutes ago, ufoguy said: .not to mention they all have a pulsating hole in the middle… Repeating an incorrect claim doesn't help your case.. EVERYTHING that is sufficiently out of focus will tend to take on that same shape. 7 minutes ago, ufoguy said: What kind of debris is that? Space debris. It's in space. It's in orbit (ie not affected by gravity or air in the same way as on earth). It's photographed by a specialised cam with an unusual lens and aperture design. It's possibly affected by thruster outgassings, even static electricity and magnetic fields... Given all those facts and more, why would you expect it to behave as it does on earth, and look as it would in a different camera? You need to widen your knowledge. Start with the first bit - BOKEH. Then think about the other things I've raised. Then see if you can find James Oberg's report on the STS-75 incident (sadly he's redoing his website at the moment I believe, but it's out there..) 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrLzs Posted June 30, 2021 #109 Share Posted June 30, 2021 BTW, I think some folks here are not spotting Tom1200's sarcasm/irony... 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmccr8 Posted June 30, 2021 #110 Share Posted June 30, 2021 Just now, ChrLzs said: BTW, I think some folks here are not spotting Tom1200's sarcasm/irony... Hi ChrLsz I love Tom's sense of humor. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Reaper 6 Posted June 30, 2021 #111 Share Posted June 30, 2021 23 hours ago, Tiggs said: I read it the other way -- that they have some cases that look as if a breakthrough technology is involved, and are conducting further analysis on those cases. For example -- no-one's going to do further analysis on an object moving at 300mph, to determine if breakthrough technology is involved. The whole thing's remarkably brief. Looks as if they're not in any rush to release any of the details. Good morning Tiggs, I agree with on this there would be no reason for any further analysis if they could explain and understood how these objects operated. Here, is a Academic Research Paper produced by the Israeli Scientific Community Concerning the impact of the Pentagon UAP Report and the objects known as UAPs. It was produce by The Begin-Sadat Center for Strategic Studies which is an independent, non-partisan think tank conducting policy-relevant research on Middle Eastern and global strategic affairs. The paper is 58 pages long, however, their analysis of the situation is more in depth that anything else I have been able to fine online anywhere. This is a well respected independent non-partisan think tank which consists of well respected Scientists from areas of study concerning these objects. While I unserstand that 58 pages is a lot to take in, it's worth reading! https://besacenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/183web-UPDATED.pdf 7 hours ago, Robotic Jew said: I think this report tells everyone EXACTLY what these things are. You may be right, but here is a indepth paper by the Israeli The Begin-Sadat Center for Strategic Studies which is an independent, non-partisan think tank conducting policy-relevant research on Middle Eastern and global strategic affairs. Their research and conclusions give you a look at both sides of this issue. This Acedemic Paper is 58 pages long , however the way they approach this subject and their views make this article worth reading. https://besacenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/183web-UPDATED.pdf 8 hours ago, ufoguy said: So wats the explanation for those ufos then? Why do they look like the dropa stones? Organization: Here is an interesting Academic Research Paper produced by the Israeli Scientific Community Concerning the impact of the Pentagon UAP Report and the objects known as UAPs. The Begin-Sadat Center for Strategic Studies is an independent, non-partisan think tank conducting policy-relevant research on Middle Eastern and global strategic affairs. This research paper delves into the topic in much more detail than any other research paper or article I was able to find on line. The paper is 58 pages long, however because of the research and information included it is worth reading. https://besacenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/183web-UPDATED.pdf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted June 30, 2021 #112 Share Posted June 30, 2021 1 hour ago, ufoguy said: Just explain it to me…. Why does the debris,..( all of them) have a hole in the middle that pulsates and a notch on side of the disk…. And also one of them be 3 miles long measured against the tether ? And they don’t bump into each other as they move? Some slow down some are faster than other… all moving in different direction and no collisions….not to mention they all have a pulsating hole in the middle… What kind of debris is that? There is no reason for me to even try, as my dad used to say, you can lead a horse to knowleage but you cant make him think, However, chrlzs kindly took the time to further outline and detail the answers to your questions which were covered in the video i posted, so i do hope you grasp just how riduclous the whole dropa stone tether UFO thing is, you might should say thanks to chrlzs. 43 minutes ago, ChrLzs said: BTW, I think some folks here are not spotting Tom1200's sarcasm/irony... Or perhaps some of us, our own irony/sarcasm is just a lot more obscure than toms 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ufoguy Posted July 1, 2021 #113 Share Posted July 1, 2021 1 hour ago, the13bats said: There is no reason for me to even try, as my dad used to say, you can lead a horse to knowleage but you cant make him think, However, chrlzs kindly took the time to further outline and detail the answers to your questions which were covered in the video i posted, so i do hope you grasp just how riduclous the whole dropa stone tether UFO thing is, you might should say thanks to chrlzs. Or perhaps some of us, our own irony/sarcasm is just a lot more obscure than toms Ok.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrLzs Posted July 1, 2021 #114 Share Posted July 1, 2021 Just as a small aside.... I am checking some of the sources being presented here, in the forlorn hope that I might stumble onto something that is based on actual data. There seems to be a lot of assurances that 'multiple sensors' back up the pilot reports and claims. Anyways, the closest I found was this one where just before they started they declare: Quote Assuming that any one of the cases we examine is based on accurate reports, we show that the UAVs exhibit unreasonably high accelerations ranging from 100g to well over 5000g. Let that first line sink in.. "Assuming that any one of the cases we examine is based on accurate reports"..... Really? Is that not an admission that they do NOT in fact have actual data that confirms the reports. If they did, they would not need to assume anything. It gets worse. That report then makes this claim: Quote The UAV was observed to be a metallic disk-shaped object .... leaving at a speed in excess of 1500mph, which was later confirmed to be about 1800mph by Gander Center Radar Wow, at last - confirmation? NO. Sadly for them, I checked the reference they gave in the hope I'd see the data. But not only was there no data, the reference contradicts the claim entirely, saying: Quote .. they got on the radio and notified Gander of the UFO. They asked Gander if it could see anything on radar, but Gander did not report back.. They landed at Gander and were met by intelligence personnel who told them they had nothing on radar. Sigh. This sort of bull**** is why I check references. Thoroughly. So, when anyone does have a source that shows the actual data, the verifiable evidence - could they post it? Thanks in advance. I'm getting a bit tired of reading many pages of handwaving and anecdotes and opinions.. Let's remember that these guys were up fairly close to the claimed anomalies, and they had advanced equipment on board their aircraft. Often, the areas they were working in were also closely monitored by other systems for training exercises. But.. 1. We don't have any data to work with except some videos that do NOT show even 'advanced', let alone impossible, maneuvers. 2. The pilots in question were at no time invited or permitted to engage nor did they ask for that, as far as we know. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Duck Posted July 1, 2021 #115 Share Posted July 1, 2021 12 hours ago, ufoguy said: So wats the explanation for those ufos then? Why do they look like the dropa stones? Oooh, oooh! I know the answer. Because whatever they look like that's what they are. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cerberusxp Posted July 1, 2021 #116 Share Posted July 1, 2021 (edited) I watched the the first 2 hours will watch the rest later. My opinion is this is a non--disclosure disclosure! An admission like "OK OK we admit that there is flying craft we know little or nothing about (BIG LIE) and yes they buzz our Military and nuke sites". Since Podesta is involved in this one tells me this was the soft disclosure. << Malevolent There will be a more revealing one later by the other faction. << Benevolent When Biden goes AWAY! Q What bothers me is it was only recently that I have heard and seen anything about pyramid craft. Like the one that hovered over the Kremlin! In my opinion consider what the Bible says "There is war in the heavens" I suspect that this war involves several factions and dimensions as well as temporal. The battle over Nuremburg I suspect was a temporal battle. We are involved somehow. Perhaps prisoners of this war? That has our memories wiped every time we die? We are higher beings we just don't know it. All through the Bible we are told to WAKE UP! Edited July 1, 2021 by cerberusxp add more 1 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dejarma Posted July 1, 2021 #117 Share Posted July 1, 2021 1 hour ago, cerberusxp said: Like the one that hovered over the Kremlin! did you think that was real? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rlyeh Posted July 1, 2021 #118 Share Posted July 1, 2021 7 hours ago, cerberusxp said: In my opinion consider what the Bible says "There is war in the heavens" I suspect that this war involves several factions and dimensions as well as temporal. The battle over Nuremburg I suspect was a temporal battle. We are involved somehow. Perhaps prisoners of this war? That has our memories wiped every time we die? We are higher beings we just don't know it. All through the Bible we are told to WAKE UP! All this from a book that begins with a fictional story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Essan Posted July 1, 2021 #119 Share Posted July 1, 2021 On 6/30/2021 at 2:04 PM, ufoguy said: So wats the explanation for those ufos then? Why do they look like the dropa stones? Surely the question is why are we worried about space aliens when they are still, clearly, in the stone age, whereas we have blu ray DVDs? 3 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom1200 Posted July 1, 2021 #120 Share Posted July 1, 2021 23 hours ago, Manwon Lender said: Here, is a Academic Research Paper ... https://besacenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/183web-UPDATED.pdf You may be right, but here is a indepth paper by the Israeli The Begin-Sadat Center for Strategic Studies ... https://besacenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/183web-UPDATED.pdf Here is an interesting Academic Research Paper ... https://besacenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/183web-UPDATED.pdf Why regurgitate the same spiel and link thrice? That aside - I read it and I'm not impressed. It sets the tone in the second paragraph on page 6: Presumably, “UAP” refers to the same craft that the military, FBI, CIA, DIA, and others have been detecting and analyzing for the past seven decades and does nothing to restore credibility in the subsequent 50 pages. At no point does this 'academic paper' question the existence or abilities of these awesomely advanced flying machines. Much of the rest relies uncritically on Dr Jack Sarfatti: an accomplished, theoretical physicist, yes, but ultimately a thinker, not a doer. Most of his contributions are nothing but speculation based on hypothetical inventions using 'exotic matter' with made-up properties. Hardly my understanding of rigorous academia. There's a lot of anecdotes and outlandish claims, and talk about impossible engineering and black ops and cover ups, but there's really no evidence of anything. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dejarma Posted July 1, 2021 #121 Share Posted July 1, 2021 59 minutes ago, Tom1200 said: There's a lot of anecdotes and outlandish claims, and talk about impossible engineering and black ops and cover ups, but there's really no evidence of anything. yep nothing... there's enough stuff thrown out there by these <X this> & <X that> to keep this alive. This BS will go on for years; earning money for those involved= which is the whole point of it of course. I can see it & so can many others but there's enough who can't to earn the likes of Favor a nice bag of cash from all the media etc we'll be seeing in the future via nothing more than BS stories & opinions from those with an X background that many will listen to & believe! It really is quite pathetic IMO 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Reaper 6 Posted July 1, 2021 #122 Share Posted July 1, 2021 44 minutes ago, Tom1200 said: Why regurgitate the same spiel and link thrice? That aside - I read it and I'm not impressed. It sets the tone in the second paragraph on page 6: Presumably, “UAP” refers to the same craft that the military, FBI, CIA, DIA, and others have been detecting and analyzing for the past seven decades and does nothing to restore credibility in the subsequent 50 pages. At no point does this 'academic paper' question the existence or abilities of these awesomely advanced flying machines. Much of the rest relies uncritically on Dr Jack Sarfatti: an accomplished, theoretical physicist, yes, but ultimately a thinker, not a doer. Most of his contributions are nothing but speculation based on hypothetical inventions using 'exotic matter' with made-up properties. Hardly my understanding of rigorous academia. There's a lot of anecdotes and outlandish claims, and talk about impossible engineering and black ops and cover ups, but there's really no evidence of anything. Thanks for your point of view, I appreciate it but why are you concerned what I post. If it isn't of interest to you that's cool, but why not just leave it alone, why must you attack things that you don't agree with. I mean it's fine to disagree that's what discussion is for, but what harm does to you personally is caused by me posting a paper that you disagree with? But, there is one thing interesting about that paper, it was written with the assistance of many many professionals like Jack Sarfatti. You admit he is a accomplished theoretical physicist, but that he is only a thinker not a doer. Well that description describes the top theoretical physicists currently alive, so maybe that is not a bad thing. Professor Steven Hawking was a theoretical physicist and he was also just a thinker, like you described Jack, but Professor Hawking accomplished a great deal by just thinking alone or maybe you disagree with that also. In fact his work on Black Holes and his discovery of what has become known as Hawking Radiation has changed our mankinds knowledge of that phenomenon a great deal. One thing I have noticed is that you will tear apart Scientific Papers presented by other, because they don't agree with your OPINION, but you don't offer any Scientific papers tha refute that paper, I have to ask where are your Scientific Sourceses? I will have some additional Scientific Papers to present very soon, I am waiting for them to arrive. One of those papers explains in depth the multiple imaging and sensor systems that were used to track these objects. I will post them as they arrive, in the future don't be so negative a little respectful conversation will go a long way Tom! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dejarma Posted July 1, 2021 #123 Share Posted July 1, 2021 3 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said: Thanks for your point of view, I appreciate it but why are you concerned what I post. If it isn't of interest to you that's cool, but why not just leave it alone, why must you attack things that you don't agree with. what you described in the above quote is called debating- something you clearly have no concept of.. But carry on.. Just for the mild form of entertainment for some, if nothing else 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Reaper 6 Posted July 1, 2021 #124 Share Posted July 1, 2021 18 minutes ago, Dejarma said: yep nothing... there's enough stuff thrown out there by these <X this> & <X that> to keep this alive. This BS will go on for years; earning money for those involved= which is the whole point of it of course. I can see it & so can many others but there's enough who can't to earn the likes of Favor a nice bag of cash from all the media etc we'll be seeing in the future via nothing more than BS stories & opinions from those with an X background that many will listen to & believe! It really is quite pathetic IMO Yes I agree favor is cashing in on his experience, but realisticly you and everyone else here would also cash in on an event that happened in our lives. Well, I can't honestly say you would do that maybe your in a Billion that won't, however to do so is human nature as distasteful as you may find it to be. To date both the for and against are all offering BS opinions on this subject, it's seem that opinions are what there are more of than facts currently. But, one thing for certain isn't an opinion, and that is that there are Unidentified Flying Objects that are violating the Airspace of count urges worldwide. Are they Alien Craft, I don't believe they are or that aliens have ever visited Earth. But, whatever these objects are, they are a danger to all aircraft in our airspace and they are also a danger to National Security because no Nation in this planet has been able to prevent them from doing what they. JIMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the13bats Posted July 1, 2021 #125 Share Posted July 1, 2021 When i was young i had a very misplaced respect of authority, as a kid i thought a doctor, cop, and people with letters at their names were somehow above the average person and beyond reproach or flaw. As i got older i saw just how ridiulously silly my childhood notions were, a stunning example is that a person like trump was president. when i hear "UFO" stories and they have to use the buzz words like "hes a cop" "hes a pilot" "hes gov or military" to try to cook up some kind of pesudo crediblity im far from impressed. Ever noticed these ex military who step up to bray claims about ET never do it until they are old ready to or have retired, no, i do not care much that some cat who polishes chairs with his butt doesnt know what every UFO in the sky is, it his ignorance is far from proof of anything. Not unlike when highway patrol would pull me over in a custom job and ask what kind of car is this, at one point in my life i would have expected a highway cop to know but thats not the case, And it seems too much blind faith is being placed in stories just because of who the teller is. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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