"I think, therefore I am"

[lightly]

On July 1, 2021 at 8:24 AM, XenoFish said:

I hold no grudge. I'm stuck right between.

Nothing matters

And 

Nothing matters

It's like being on the end of "I'm going to die anyway, why am I take this life so damn serious?"

Man alive X !      I don't know if it's  Serious  or not, but Life is about Living, not Dying. ?

[Mr Walker]

 I am, ergo I  can think .

[Guyver]

7 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

 I am, ergo I  can think .

Clever, but not true.  A brick is, but it doesn’t think.

[quiXilver]

On 6/28/2021 at 10:59 AM, Saru said:

Philosopher René Descartes famously said Cogito, ergo sum, which translates to "I think, therefore I am".

If you had to sum up the concept of existence in one sentence, what would it be ?

Only one thing is beyond doubting for me.

I am aware, therefore Awareness is.

 

[jmccr8]

I’m hungry ergo I eat

[Mr Walker]

9 hours ago, Guyver said:

Clever, but not true.  A brick is, but it doesn’t think.

It is much deeper than that 

 IMO Descartes got it the wrong way around, lacking a modern understanding of the human mind and evolution

Ie  we don't exist because we think, we think because  we exist 

No; a brick doesn't think but the reference was to me (and to humans in general)

Descartes thought he only  way we could truly know anything was through experience (and in a sense he was right ) ie we can be sure we exist because  we are self  aware 

BUT modern science and psychology etc allows us to know how and why we think and how we evolved to do so.  Once we understood evolution we knew that matter (The physical)  came first and thought was a later product 

This allows us to examine the proposition more carefully.

if we know  we are alive because we think then we can also know via that  thought  that we think only because we are alive AND have evolved the ability to become self  aware  

I can only think because i exist, and humans have evolved this level of thinking over ,millions of years.

  It is my existence which is the primary point Without my brain, I would not exist or be able to think Thus thought flows form body, not body from  thought.

  Thinking evolves from my body /brain's existence and capacity,  ergo I am, and (only)  therefore. am I capable of thinking.  If i was not who i am, I wouldn't be able to think 

[jmccr8]

18 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

It is much deeper than that 

 IMO Descartes got it the wrong way around, lacking a modern understanding of the human mind and evolution

Ie  we don't exist because we think, we think because  we exist 

No; a brick doesn't think but the reference was to me (and to humans in general)

Descartes thought he only  way we could truly know anything was through experience (and in a sense he was right ) ie we can be sure we exist because  we are self  aware 

BUT modern science and psychology etc allows us to know how and why we think and how we evolved to do so.  Once we understood evolution we knew that matter (The physical)  came first and thought was a later product 

This allows us to examine the proposition more carefully.

if we know  we are alive because we think then we can also know via that  thought  that we think only because we are alive AND have evolved the ability to become self  aware  

I can only think because i exist, and humans have evolved this level of thinking over ,millions of years.

  It is my existence which is the primary point Without my brain, I would not exist or be able to think Thus thought flows form body, not body from  thought.

  Thinking evolves from my body /brain's existence and capacity,  ergo I am, and (only)  therefore. am I capable of thinking.  If i was not who i am, I wouldn't be able to think 

Hi Walker

Thinking involves a select group and is not unique to everything that exists

 

[+Sherapy]

39 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

It is much deeper than that 

 IMO Descartes got it the wrong way around, lacking a modern understanding of the human mind and evolution

Ie  we don't exist because we think, we think because  we exist 

No; a brick doesn't think but the reference was to me (and to humans in general)

Descartes thought he only  way we could truly know anything was through experience (and in a sense he was right ) ie we can be sure we exist because  we are self  aware 

BUT modern science and psychology etc allows us to know how and why we think and how we evolved to do so.  Once we understood evolution we knew that matter (The physical)  came first and thought was a later product 

This allows us to examine the proposition more carefully.

if we know  we are alive because we think then we can also know via that  thought  that we think only because we are alive AND have evolved the ability to become self  aware  

I can only think because i exist, and humans have evolved this level of thinking over ,millions of years.

  It is my existence which is the primary point Without my brain, I would not exist or be able to think Thus thought flows form body, not body from  thought.

  Thinking evolves from my body /brain's existence and capacity,  ergo I am, and (only)  therefore. am I capable of thinking.  If i was not who i am, I wouldn't be able to think 

Including @Guyver in case interested.
No, No, and no! This is completely erroneous. MW while your opinion is duly noted it isn’t based on Descartes’ philosophy at all, his approach to epistemology is Rationalism. According to Descartes the sense are flawed in a thorough reading of Meditations 1, 2, and 3  it outlines his argument. In M1 he is skeptical about the senses, in M2 he makes the claim “ I can know I exist” and in M3 he gains knowledge about the external world. Why?

Think about an analogy of building a house in M1, we have no rational foundation for our claims about the world; in M2, he discovers the foundation (I think therefore I am); in M3, he uses that foundation to make claims about the external world. One must read past M1 to get this, 

Rationalism is the idea that we gain knowledge via reason, not sense experience. According to Descartes, the senses are flawed. For Descartes, the issue is not whether we can know anything at all, but, whether we can claim to know anything with absolute certainty. 

Edited September 14, 2021 by Sherapy

[Guyver]

2 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

It is much deeper than that 

 IMO Descartes got it the wrong way around, lacking a modern understanding of the human mind and evolution

Ie  we don't exist because we think, we think because  we exist 

No; a brick doesn't think but the reference was to me (and to humans in general)

Descartes thought he only  way we could truly know anything was through experience (and in a sense he was right ) ie we can be sure we exist because  we are self  aware 

BUT modern science and psychology etc allows us to know how and why we think and how we evolved to do so.  Once we understood evolution we knew that matter (The physical)  came first and thought was a later product 

This allows us to examine the proposition more carefully.

if we know  we are alive because we think then we can also know via that  thought  that we think only because we are alive AND have evolved the ability to become self  aware  

I can only think because i exist, and humans have evolved this level of thinking over ,millions of years.

  It is my existence which is the primary point Without my brain, I would not exist or be able to think Thus thought flows form body, not body from  thought.

  Thinking evolves from my body /brain's existence and capacity,  ergo I am, and (only)  therefore. am I capable of thinking.  If i was not who i am, I wouldn't be able to think 

You just weasel your way around everything, don’t you?  I mean, you are just exasperating.  Whatever, peace be with you.

[Tatetopa]

Interesting and diverse.

I had always considered Descartes's  "I am"    more in the Biblical sense of God saying "I am";  a simple phrase pregnant with possibility and devoid of limits.  "I am" transcends existence and  affirms self awareness.

Animals  and plants exist and think. They process information  and make choices geared toward survival.   We happen to be pretty good at it.  We store useful data and  have complex algorithms to process that data  to into instructions for survival..

I don't know how it happened, but somewhere along the line we started thinking about thinking, generated an internal life and personality.  Until there is self awareness, I don't think there is an I.  So I'll try this one liner.

I am aware, therefore possibilities multiply.

 

 

 

 

 

[Mr Walker]

5 hours ago, Guyver said:

You just weasel your way around everything, don’t you?  I mean, you are just exasperating.  Whatever, peace be with you.

LOl This is an idea i have been kicking around since childhood.

Presenting a difernt coherent philosophical argument is not weasling although it is fun

Plus I think we have to be careful accepting without question  the ideas of people from centuries ago as modern theory.

  We wouldn't accept 17C medicine uncritically as the latest thing   so why uncritically  accept  the philosophical statements of a 17th century philosopher as the l end point of philosophy.   

 

[+Sherapy]

9 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Interesting and diverse.

I had always considered Descartes's  "I am"    more in the Biblical sense of God saying "I am";  a simple phrase pregnant with possibility and devoid of limits.  "I am" transcends existence and  affirms self awareness.

Animals  and plants exist and think. They process information  and make choices geared toward survival.   We happen to be pretty good at it.  We store useful data and  have complex algorithms to process that data  to into instructions for survival..

I don't know how it happened, but somewhere along the line we started thinking about thinking, generated an internal life and personality.  Until there is self awareness, I don't think there is an I.  So I'll try this one liner.

I am aware, therefore possibilities multiply.

 

 

 

 

 

I like this.

[XenoFish]

I drink, therefore, I'm drunk.

Edited September 14, 2021 by XenoFish

[Mr Walker]

16 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Interesting and diverse.

I had always considered Descartes's  "I am"    more in the Biblical sense of God saying "I am";  a simple phrase pregnant with possibility and devoid of limits.  "I am" transcends existence and  affirms self awareness.

Animals  and plants exist and think. They process information  and make choices geared toward survival.   We happen to be pretty good at it.  We store useful data and  have complex algorithms to process that data  to into instructions for survival..

I don't know how it happened, but somewhere along the line we started thinking about thinking, generated an internal life and personality.  Until there is self awareness, I don't think there is an I.  So I'll try this one liner.

I am aware, therefore possibilities multiply.

 

 

 

 

 

Humans are the only earth creatures who can phrase the thought.

"I am" 

If you (generic) don't know how and why we came to be able to do this, the basic premise might be, "Well i can think, and this proves I am alive/existing "

However, with more knowledge. we can "know " that many things live/exist  but don't have our awareness. 

 We  can understand  how and why we have the abilty to phrase that question, and we can understand that  existence is not dependent on abilty to be ware of existence.

ie reality is not dependent on our perception of it .

Ie, again, you could exist without being able to think. 

Most plants and animals exist without the abilty to "think,"  and certainty a brick does

We can have the same certainty of the brick's existence, as we can of our own, once we understand the nature of reality and our perception of i,   and we can know the brick exists, even though it has no awareness of it's own existence. 

[Crazy Horse]

On 6/28/2021 at 6:59 PM, Saru said:

Philosopher René Descartes famously said Cogito, ergo sum, which translates to "I think, therefore I am".

If you had to sum up the concept of existence in one sentence, what would it be ?

I AM THAT I AM

Pure Presence

Without thought

Only awareness

The above quote from Descartes makes more sense with, "I am, therefore I think."

Lets not put the horse before the cart likey..

[jmccr8]

1 minute ago, Crazy Horse said:

I AM THAT I AM

 

[The_Phantom_Stranger]

Ahhhh that's pretty funny tbh. I thought this was a play on the name of God too. If I would have to come up with another way it would be, "I act, therefore I am," or, "I do, therefore I am."

[Crazy Horse]

On 8/22/2021 at 6:20 PM, lightly said:

Man alive X !      I don't know if it's  Serious  or not, but Life is about Living, not Dying. ?

Spot-on..

There is no such thing as death.

XFish might as well have said, I am going to live, so why not live happily, with joy and love?

[Crazy Horse]

3 hours ago, Green Lion said:

Ahhhh that's pretty funny tbh. I thought this was a play on the name of God too. If I would have to come up with another way it would be, "I act, therefore I am," or, "I do, therefore I am."

Yet one may not act, or think, and yet still be.

[Crazy Horse]

On 9/14/2021 at 7:38 AM, Tatetopa said:

Interesting and diverse.

I had always considered Descartes's  "I am"    more in the Biblical sense of God saying "I am";  a simple phrase pregnant with possibility and devoid of limits.  "I am" transcends existence and  affirms self awareness.

Animals  and plants exist and think. They process information  and make choices geared toward survival.   We happen to be pretty good at it.  We store useful data and  have complex algorithms to process that data  to into instructions for survival..

I don't know how it happened, but somewhere along the line we started thinking about thinking, generated an internal life and personality.  Until there is self awareness, I don't think there is an I.  So I'll try this one liner.

I am aware, therefore possibilities multiply.

 

 

 

 

 

When one is simply aware, without the constant thought stream of the ego, then the presence of GOD is felt for oneself, and one is being worked upon, to receive a greater level of consciousness, intuition, wisdom and power.

And so yes, the possibilities do multiply.

[Knob Oddy]

On 9/13/2021 at 7:32 PM, Mr Walker said:

 I am, ergo I  can think .

Because I am thinking,  I know I am alive. Cognito ergo sum

[Crazy Horse]

2 hours ago, Hugh Mungus said:

Because I am thinking,  I know I am alive. Cognito ergo sum

So what happens when you stop thinking?

[lightly]

On September 14, 2021 at 1:12 PM, XenoFish said:

I drink, therefore, I'm drunk.

I quit drinking, therefore, I can think.  

[lightly]

On September 14, 2021 at 12:29 PM, Sherapy said:

I like this.

I like your new picture bright eyes !   

[+Sherapy]

1 hour ago, lightly said:

I like your new picture bright eyes !   

Awww, thank you lightly