"I think, therefore I am"

[Crazy Horse]

18 hours ago, XenoFish said:

 

Thanks for the thoughtful response, so of which I can agree with, pity you wrote nothing above!

[XenoFish]

Just now, Crazy Horse said:

Thanks for the thoughtful response, so of which I can agree with, pity you wrote nothing above!

Then you are so far from being where you wish to be. That's unfortunate. For all your "godliness" you are still prideful and arrogant. For all that spiritual love you talk so much about, there is only anger and denial. Even the talk of vanquishing the ego, there it is, ever stronger. I dare say that you are all talk and hubris.

[lightly]

11 hours ago, psyche101 said:

 Cheers lightly.

But I'm more interested in why common sense and logic is abandoned. I'm not sure if you have noticed but the posters here who often cite vedic scripts do so literally. It also seems to attract those with a penchant for the paranormal. I've even seen posters say the Vimana flew. 

I wonder if there's something in it that attracts more fanciful minds. 

Cheers .          I dunno.   I find it especially interesting because it seems to deal more with concepts ..while other mainstream religions seem to deal more with rules.  ??   In that link I gave, there are shortcuts to the main concepts . I like the distinctions drawn between the spiritual realm. (which is believed to be reality). ...and the material realm. (which is believed to be illusion) 

.    Somehow, it seems to remind me more of scientific possibilities...than the Abrahamic religions...   Maybe that's just my "fanciful mind" at play.  

[ChrLzs]

On 11/9/2021 at 3:32 PM, joc said:

 And it's always pretty much in the state of right here, right now.

Are you saying you have never been 'euphoric'?  I mean, I'm as skeptical and 'non-spiritual' as they come, but that hasn't stopped me from experiencing events that take me to a 'different level' - for want of a better term....  Sure, I know it's most likely just adrenaline/dopamine and other -ines.. but those events have led me to an understanding of why one would believe there is a 'higher purpose' - a need for an explanation beyond boring old materialism.

As an aside, I don't do drugs (!) but as far as experiencing euphoria.. about twenty years ago I was swimming, alone, at a fairly remote beach (Gallipoli Beach in South Australia - it's where they shot the movie).  It was a beautiful day, glassy flat sea, and I was lucky enough for a small pack of wild dolphins to adopt me for about a half hour.  They swam right up, never quite close enough to touch but playfully cavorted around me - one mother dolphin even brought a youngster up close, as if to say "see this funny creature - they don't swim all that well, and they are mostly harmless...".  During the event, I was in a place that felt out of this world - it was beyond wonderful.  Whatever that means.  When they tired of me and moved away, as I swam slowly back to shore it occurred to me that I could get taken by a shark now, and I would still be smiling.....

Anyway, I am not religious, but I do recognise a lot of good stuff in many religions (and try to ignore the bad)...  

[psyche101]

17 hours ago, lightly said:

Cheers .          I dunno.   I find it especially interesting because it seems to deal more with concepts ..while other mainstream religions seem to deal more with rules.  ??   In that link I gave, there are shortcuts to the main concepts . I like the distinctions drawn between the spiritual realm. (which is believed to be reality). ...and the material realm. (which is believed to be illusion) 

I thought that might be your personal attraction. 

It just strikes me as interesting that some of the wildest arrogant imaginations here, like CH or PG often refer to it. I know PG just pretends mostly as I've caught him out explaining modern western versions of old beliefs and practices, it's probably just correlated without causation. Still interesting. 

17 hours ago, lightly said:

.    Somehow, it seems to remind me more of scientific possibilities...than the Abrahamic religions...   Maybe that's just my "fanciful mind" at play.  

Wow. Didn't see that coming. How do you find it science orientated? I've seen posters say Vinema flew, which is as anti science as one could get, and like I mentioned, it seems to interest paranormal proponents, which would indicate a strong departure from science?

Am I missing something?

[Crazy Horse]

On 11/10/2021 at 1:59 AM, psyche101 said:

What speaks to you in vedic writings?

The pure, magical simplicity and clarity of certain teachers such as Sri Ramana Maharishi.

Hinduism is a concept made-up by the British to neatly stack all the different beliefs and philosophies under one title.

All thought is unreal, although some thoughts may lead one to the higher, more expanded states of awareness, at which point one must drop all thoughts and leave the ego behind, and abide within the Real.

 

 

 

[Crazy Horse]

21 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Then you are so far from being where you wish to be. That's unfortunate. For all your "godliness" you are still prideful and arrogant. For all that spiritual love you talk so much about, there is only anger and denial. Even the talk of vanquishing the ego, there it is, ever stronger. I dare say that you are all talk and hubris.

You may think what you want, this one doesn't care.

I have an invisible shield protecting one from the "hurtful" words of other.

Its called love.

Love is the greatest protection one may have, and the truth is the sword that shall cut one free of all ignorance, and therefore all suffering too.

Good luck to you.

I am here for you, for awhile, if you want to talk these things through.

 

[lightly]

6 hours ago, psyche101 said:

I thought that might be your personal attraction. 

It just strikes me as interesting that some of the wildest arrogant imaginations here, like CH or PG often refer to it. I know PG just pretends mostly as I've caught him out explaining modern western versions of old beliefs and practices, it's probably just correlated without causation. Still interesting. 

Wow. Didn't see that coming. How do you find it science orientated? I've seen posters say Vinema flew, which is as anti science as one could get, and like I mentioned, it seems to interest paranormal proponents, which would indicate a strong departure from science?

Am I missing something?

Glad you asked... For instance, when the material realm is spoken of as being illusory.....   Think about matter.   Is it what it looks like?    It is...and isn't.?   A wall looks like a wall..and it is what it is..from our perspective...But,  the scientific view is that it is composed of atoms?  And what are atoms?  Aren't they actually composed ,almost if not entirely, of space?  That is to say, areas of bound ENERGY?   If you touch the wall...what are you touching?   Nothing ... other than electromagnetic resistance?....so to make a short story longer...the material realm really is illusory! ?   Our being's Experience of it is what is real to us.  ?

There are many other views in the writings that , to my mind when I encounter them, seem to resemble the scientific explanations .   ... Like time for instance..  In the writings time has no beginning or end ...does it?    I can't think of any more right now.  .but I suspect some things might ring the same bells in you?

https://pparihar.com/2016/10/09/atomic-theory-from-bhagvatgita/

.      .you might find this interesting  ^   It's translated from the writings.  There are more interesting correlations to be found.

Edited November 11, 2021 by lightly

[Mr Walker]

On 11/4/2021 at 8:19 PM, ChrLzs said:

Meaningless Word Salad.  (And Capitalisation Belongs To Pompous Gits, so I'd drop that naff habit if I were you..)

If it were true in any sense - can you transfer your thoughts to someone just using your 'consciousness'?  Does a huge sadness waft over everyone when one person is sad?   

Multitudinous.

Diversely spread out individually.

You just contradicted yourself.

Ah, the wish for an eternal soul.  Knock on a bit of wood 3x after your demise.  Go on, be the first.

And apparently, infinitely cruel and vindictive.

Back to the salad....

No, it's your EGO, not ergo, that wants you to think you are part of a better whole.  But you are just a hole...

Well, that's good, as you have convinced noone.

Unless you have experienced it you logically wont accept it 

 

For a human being, consciousness is primary; not the physical body, but the mind  Without it we might as well NOT exist 

 

Everything inside us and around us only "exists" for us, because we are conscious of it (although, yes it exists without our perception of it, as well)

and yes you can transfer and receive thoughts from  others.

People do this all the time, sometimes quite clearly and accurately. 

Science is also actually currently  formalising this abilty 

Consciousness exists in our own  minds, but also as part of an "internet of minds" across the galaxy. You might think (and hope) that your thought are private and not open to anyone else, but that is not really the case 

Most humans don't access it, and even those who do rarely do it steadily and effectively,   but even snatches of it can empower and transform a human.

It can be a useful blessing, or a dangerous curse. 

I agree that this consciousness is not omnipotent,  but it is powerful, advanced and knowledgeable /wise. 

It's source  is either an evolved entity, or an artificial construct designed as a communication/teaching tool  to work in a symbiotic relationship with other self aware beings 

and no, in my experience never cruel or vindictive.

Sometimes hard to comprehend, and with a strange sense of humour,  but always with my (and humanity's) best interests and well being at heart 

Cruel and vindictive people will perceive and use power in a different  way to a kind and loving   person. 

Maybe its your lack of sufficient ego or self  worth, which perceives yourself as an individual cut off from  others and the universe, rather than an integrated part of it all. 

As part of a team or a partnership, self  counts for less, than for an individual. 

One can't really be egotistical when partnered with a " god", or when  being  a part of a network of minds.

    But one doesn't NEED so much ego etc., because one is not alone but supported by a team, and a very powerful protector /mentor and   a source of power it shares with you  You don't have to be a strong individual to survive, although it is still good to be strong, to contribute more  to the team. 

One can never be lonely or afraid  when one knows and understands the true nature of life, and your relationship to all other things. 

Edited November 14, 2021 by Mr Walker

[Mr Walker]

On 11/6/2021 at 10:47 AM, ChrLzs said:

As happens here in Australia at barbeques... that meaningless salad can go straight into the bin.

You are going to the wrong barbecues  

Given the  way some blokes cook, modern salads are often the best bit of a BBQ.

Personally, I think we should also put the women in charge of the BBQ.

While not a drinker, I believe that would give the blokes more time for serious matters , like drinking or discussing sport

Most blokes don't get the training in childhood, to be good cooks .  

[Mr Walker]

On 11/6/2021 at 8:55 PM, XenoFish said:

You do not need God to be a decent human. In fact I honestly think that if being a good person require "divine motivation" you're never really a good person. Because if you can't do it of your own volition, how good of a person are you really? 

That depends where you  believe god to be.

If it is a part of you and you are a part of it, then  you cant even be completely human without it, and  you have a choice ( as a god ) to be good or evil 

We are good or evil by choice and anything which helps us, motivates us,  and informs us, to make a constructive choice,  is useful.

That goes for humanism, or any of the constructive spiritual beliefs of people around the world. 

[Mr Walker]

On 11/8/2021 at 7:46 AM, XenoFish said:

Yeah, I have read a lot of what you write. It basically comes down to see those who don't agree or do what you do as being lesser than you. Sure you "might" be okay with people doing what they wish, you just see them as lesser people. 

Its just my opinion but i see that as a lack of self  esteem and self  confidence on your part, rather than a sense of superiority on Crazy Horses

  You and others see me in the same way, yet I have never felt, seen or perceived myself as superior to anyone else (or inferior to anyone, either ) None is better than me just because they are richer more skilled in an area or sport  more popular etc But I am not better than anyone else,  either  

I dont judge myself against others only against what i know my potential to be ie how close can i get to fulfilling that potential in everything I do Thus I am comfortable with millionaires doctors politicians etc but also with the  all types of working people the  unemployed,  addicts, disabled  etc   That is because I see them as equal human beings, of equal intrinsic worth and value  .

[Y. Wolvenberg]

On 6/28/2021 at 7:59 PM, Saru said:

Philosopher René Descartes famously said Cogito, ergo sum, which translates to "I think, therefore I am".

If you had to sum up the concept of existence in one sentence, what would it be ?

I think, therefore I am, I thought therefore I was, I will be thinking therefore I will become, all formed on the bases of the past therefore I am merely an echo of what once was which makes u all slaves of the unknown.

[ChrLzs]

{Looks in mirror..}

What the hell am I thinking?

[quiXilver]

On 11/2/2021 at 1:25 PM, XenoFish said:

We are nothing more than a decaying collection of particles. I am not a part of you in any way, shape or form. 

And those particles were created and reformed by the food we ate and the gases we breathed.  All of them recycled and reused from prior forms.

We are all one, physically.

On 11/2/2021 at 1:43 PM, Crazy Horse said:

If you are only going to think along the lines of the physical, then I would agree.

But the energy that manifests, maintains, and ultimately destroys those particals, then yes, there is only One.

Every breath of physical air particles you breathe in, someone/something else breathed out.

We are all one physical flowing process.

 

Nothing anywhere is separate anywhere, anytime.

 

The aggregates all repurpose throughout manifest reality and we are all one.

On 11/2/2021 at 1:49 PM, XenoFish said:

We are not one. No matter how much you want to pretty the idea up. 

No prettying up, it's just the flow of information and physical particles mate.

Every atom in your current body was once a banana, steak, slice of bread, carrot...

One process, many forms

On 11/2/2021 at 1:59 PM, Crazy Horse said:

Consciousness is Primary.

Singular.

All Encompassing.

Infinite

Eternal.

Omnipotent.

And One.

Ergo, you and I, and everything else in existence, are essentially and really only apparently separate.

And don't think that I am thrilled at the idea either!!!

 

Awareness underlies all form.

Indra's Net.

 

 

[Doug1066]

On 6/28/2021 at 1:10 PM, XenoFish said:

Just like reincarnation. 

Or television.

Doug

[+Liquid Gardens]

On 11/11/2021 at 2:32 AM, Crazy Horse said:

All thought is unreal, although some thoughts may lead one to the higher, more expanded states of awareness, at which point one must drop all thoughts and leave the ego behind, and abide within the Real.

Isn't the above a 'thought' and thus 'unreal'?  How can something unreal tell us something real?  I can understand somewhat the attraction of what you are talking about, but I don't know how we would assign the word 'clarity' to it.

[Mr Walker]

On 11/15/2021 at 12:50 PM, quiXilver said:

And those particles were created and reformed by the food we ate and the gases we breathed.  All of them recycled and reused from prior forms.

We are all one, physically.

Every breath of physical air particles you breathe in, someone/something else breathed out.

We are all one physical flowing process.

 

Nothing anywhere is separate anywhere, anytime.

 

The aggregates all repurpose throughout manifest reality and we are all one.

No prettying up, it's just the flow of information and physical particles mate.

Every atom in your current body was once a banana, steak, slice of bread, carrot...

One process, many forms

Awareness underlies all form.

Indra's Net.

 

 

Indra's net has always struck me as a good metaphorical explanation for the nature of the cosmic consciousness, and the way in which all things are not just  interconnected  but are all part of "the one" living consciousness/universe   

[Crazy Horse]

18 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Isn't the above a 'thought' and thus 'unreal'?  How can something unreal tell us something real?  I can understand somewhat the attraction of what you are talking about, but I don't know how we would assign the word 'clarity' to it.

Yes, those thoughts were unreal in the ultimate sense, but relatively speaking, its at least helpful.

One must understand the relative truth, and the Ultimate Truth, if one really wants to understand these things and therefore make the most of them!

So, thoughts may be real, but not Real.

I may have started a thread about the two truths, or maybe I just dreamt it..

And if anyone is genuinely seeking some clarity, then please ask as many questions as you wish, it actually helps me to see things more clearly as well..

 

 

[Crazy Horse]

5 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Indra's net has always struck me as a good metaphorical explanation for the nature of the cosmic consciousness, and the way in which all things are not just  interconnected  but are all part of "the one" living consciousness/universe   

Would you call THAT, GOD, Mr Walker?

Great post btw.

[quiXilver]

A few quotes regarding the interconnectedness of reality by one of my heroes, David Bohm.

These observations were thoughts.  Thoughts that were realizations about the nature of the fabric of reality according to the perceptual modeling of one of humanities most adroit and potent minds. 

Thoughts are very real.  In fact, they comprise most of your reality.

So, take great care, what you allow yourself to think.

 

We are all linked by a fabric of unseen connections. This fabric is constantly changing and evolving. This field is directly structured and influenced by our behavior and by our understanding.
David Bohm

 We are internally related to everything, not [just] externally related. Consciousness is an internal relationship to the whole, we take in the whole, and we act toward the whole. Whatever we have taken in determines basically what we are. Wholeness is a kind of attitude or approach to the whole of life. If we can have a coherent approach to reality then reality will respond coherently to us.
David Bohm

 In Nature nothing remains constant. Everything is in a perpetual state of transformation, motion and change.
David Bohm

 Space is not empty. It is full, a plenum as opposed to a vacuum, and is the ground for the existence of everything, including ourselves. The universe is not separate from this cosmic sea of energy.
David Bohm

 

[+Sherapy]

On 11/14/2021 at 3:39 AM, Mr Walker said:

You are going to the wrong barbecues  

Given the  way some blokes cook, modern salads are often the best bit of a BBQ.

Personally, I think we should also put the women in charge of the BBQ.

While not a drinker, I believe that would give the blokes more time for serious matters , like drinking or discussing sport

Most blokes don't get the training in childhood, to be good cooks .  

Nonsense,, nowadays boys love to cook and many are quite good at it, too. 
 

‘’Lots of women barbecue, too. They don’t need your okay to have a go at it, mr. “I am not superior to anyone.” 
 

Edited November 17, 2021 by Sherapy

[+Hammerclaw]

Ego cogito ergo....

[Mr Walker]

18 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

Would you call THAT, GOD, Mr Walker?

Great post btw.

I use the term god because that is the term most humans know and understand 

Personally, i know it as the cosmic /universal consciousness, and address it (respectfully)  as mate  

IMO humans have made a religion of it, because that is what humans do.  We think of it as a god. it certainly doesn't doesn't see itself in those terms 

However, when you read about humans across the eras and cultures who had personal contact with "god",  the y all share this common experience of connection, protection, empowerment, light, love, etc. 

Call it gnosis, enlightenment, the holy spirit etc It is a real and powerful force  

It can also  manifest as a physical form or energy when required. 

 

[+Nuclear Wessel]

 

11 hours ago, Sherapy said:

‘’Lots of women barbecue, too. They don’t need your okay to have a go at it, mr. “I am not superior to anyone.” 

Seriously, who the f!ck does he think he is to say "we should put the women in charge"? As if it's up to us to decide whether or not they can cook on the barbecue...

What's mine is my partner's, and vice versa.