Meat Diet Boosts Kid's Growth

[Seraphina]

i am so confused with all this staff. Even diet experts have different opinions such one might say that you don't need meat and another one might say that you do need.

The problem is, I think, that most people don't seem to understand that the effects of an unbalanced diet will be very different for a child than they will be for a fully grown adult. An adult probably can afford to eat what they choose, be it vegan or otherwise, within reason...however a child, who's body is still growing, doesn't have quite the same luxury.

[Novo]

Lets all just agree to disagree, Now that I've completely covered the physical reasons (for me at least) to support a vegetarian diet. Lets get into the overall mindset of a moral vegetarian shall we? First I would like to hear, Why eating meat is moral. And then I'll argue why it is not. Lets all bear in mind however, everyone has different sets of moral values. So your merely telling me why you, personally eat meat.

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

I eat meat for the taste and the protien. I have no moral problem with it. Now, if I had to kill and clean it to eat it, it might be a different story. Even then it would be hard to give up.

Edited March 6, 2005 by ericraven2003

[Seraphina]

Nova, the subject of this thread isn't morality - it's whether or not children are being denied nutrition that they need by vegan parents implimenting a vegeratian lifestyle on them. The very reason this topic became so emotional and out of hand is because the conversation drifted to what is moral and "what nature intended"

[Novo]

Nova, the subject of this thread isn't morality - it's whether or not children are being denied nutrition that they need by vegan parents implimenting a vegeratian lifestyle on them. The very reason this topic became so emotional and out of hand is because the conversation drifted to what is moral and "what nature intended"

513516[/snapback]

Indeed. And its "Novo" sera, not "Nova" Novo is the closest latin word I could find for the english word change.

[Monkyburd]

I find what your trainer said very interesting. Care to give me some more info about why vegatarian muscle mass builds much slower?

No, because it was his expert opinion, not written down in a book or something. From his personal expert opinion, that is the effects he's seen. It's a simple matter of replenishing the muscles with vital protiens and in a large enough amount.. and distribution of Lactic Acids that build up after a workout. Lactic acid is why you feel tired or sore after a workout.

Now that I've completely covered the physical reasons..

Yes, you definately did that...

[seeking]

if meat eating was immoral i wouldnt care

when it comes down to your own well being it is ok to be selfish

its not morally right to steal, but if you were starving and had no money and you stole some food, who cares if it was moral or not, you do what you need to do in order to survive, no you dont need meat to survive, but you do need meat if you want to be more well

[Faeden]

Hi Seeking

if meat eating was immoral i wouldnt care

when it comes down to your own well being it is OK to be selfish

Rather you than me, I dont agree with that at all, but what ever rocks your boat

Can you imagine a world where everyone thought like that ?

All the best

Faeden

[seeking]

um almost everyone does think like that, who do you know that would rather starve then steal food? seriously now

[Faeden]

I would eat the cheese in my signature picture, its divine. and no cows where killed in the making of it

The point is people can eat food without meat and be more than happy, its a lot kinder than killing animals and using them as just being here for our own greedy needs. Animals feel pain and fear just as we do, they also suffer when they have there parents killed in front of them, just as we do. We treat animals as a whole like crap, just because we like how they taste, or they can make our lives easier. That is a selfishness that we can do without. What if a more intelligent and more powerful race came from out of space, and manipulated us as cattle for food, and as workers to suit there needs, and because we tasted nice to them, would you think "oh they are just doing what they need to do to survive"? Animals where on this planet way before us. I know animals kill other animals, but that is there nature, they have to, other wise many would die, we do it not because its our nature or to survive, but because we care more about making money, and what is good for our selves. We take from the earth more than we need and never give anything back. We think everything here is ours to manipulate and to gain from, rather than to sustain us, humans are greedy and its not right. And because we are greedy the earth and animals (including the human animal) have to suffer as a result.

All the best

Faeden

[Monkyburd]

Feaden, your right to believe that. But seriously, I doubt chickens are sad when their parents are killed right in front of them. They can't grasp the concept of death too well.

My belief however is that its animal rights activists like yourself and others who have created an issue and pathos from nothing. Things have been dying on this planet in painful brutal ways for hundreds of years, without human intervention. As long as the food from those animals aren't going to waste, i say we have every right to continue doing that.

At least until a chicken says,"Get your hands off me you damn dirty ape!" Then things would be gettin pretty wierd

Edited March 7, 2005 by Monkyburd

[Novo]

Theres food being dumped into the ocean to keep prices up monkyburd, Did you know world hunger would not even be a problem if we used 15% of the grain used to feed cattle to feed human beings? Its take 10 pounds of vegetarian food to create 1 pound of meat. I guess I didnt cover this earlier, Since it doesnt really fit into health, of individuals. Did you know 30% of the methane in the atmosphere is created by cattle? Cattle it grass by twisting it around there tongues, And Ripping it up by the roots. They eat land bare, And destroy what was there. Living baron wastelands in there path. And since cattle is farmed and created in such mass numbers, ranchers are always moving around and around after using all the land available to them. If you believe in any form of higher divinity, then I really dont think you can ethically eat meat. To me, I can live easily without inflicting suffering on a small animal, With intelligence comparable to ours to whatever higher form of conscience exists. Something else monkyburd, You say people have created issues from nothing? That sounds very George Orwellian to me. But I guess issue is the proper term, Since people like I and Faeden have brought it from being merely accepted as right to the point of being something to at least think about. Slavery was around for hundreds of years, People thought the earth was flat for millenia. Right and Wrong is not black and white, But by the morals this society so often promotes is it not at least argueable that we treat animals as our companions on this planet, and not as worthless sacks of flesh?

I guess I'll end this post with a quote from a david bowie song..

"Years from now,

Perhaps we'll see

Will peace on earth, finally be"

[seeking]

animals are not equal to us though, whether you like it or not, or whether you want to accept it or not, humans are above animals, yes humans are animals them selves, but our intelligence sets us apart from the bunch

[Novo]

Animals have a central nervous system. At least 98% of the ones we consume do. Thats means they feel feel pain as much as you or I. Its purely this simple, If god hit you, And justified it by saying he was more intelligent than you-And then continued to beat you, Then killed you. Im sure you wouldnt view him stating his higher intelligence as a justification for what he did.

[BurnSide]

Some animals, such as the common american prarie dog, builds towns and even cities underground, with homes for each, a very sofisticated language, lavatories and washrooms, gardens, and even social 'club' areas where they go and meet members of the opposite sex during breeding times. The have governments, the build, they talk to each other, they even grow their own food and date.

The only thing humans do they don't, is create art.

Saying they're below us is simply wrong. All life is no different.

[seeking]

(assuming god is real)

if god was to kill me who am i to judge? god is god, if you believe in god, god is above you and has every right to kill you if he pleases

-----

dolphins are intelligent too, and so are apes, however they are still not at our level, lifestyle is different than intelligence because they share qualities of life that us humans do, does not mean they are our equals, they still dont have electricity, or any ways of communication other than "word of mouth", they dont have any source of power, no doctors, no police, etc

[Novo]

If thats your attitude. Then eat meat, It's called karma. One day it will bite you in the ass.

[seeking]

not if i bite it first

[Monkyburd]

Right and Wrong is not black and white, But by the morals this society so often promotes is it not at least argueable that we treat animals as our companions on this planet, and not as worthless sacks of flesh?

They aren't worhtless. They have good juicy meat on them of course!

Did you know world hunger would not even be a problem if we used 15% of the grain used to feed cattle to feed human beings? Its take 10 pounds of vegetarian food to create 1 pound of meat.

Man Novo, those statistics shock me to the core! I better put down my burger and start munching on grass and marching towards washington to change the world!

Uhm NO. Ever think the reason we spend so much grain on feeding cattle and then eatting the cattle when we could just be eatting the grain is because WE NEED THE FRICKEN MEAT to remain healthy? Why else would we go to all that trouble?

Since people like I and Faeden have brought it from being merely accepted as right to the point of being something to at least think about. Slavery was around for hundreds of years, People thought the earth was flat for millenia.

Yes, then now let me compare my "right to eat meat" the same as freedom of speech and freedom or religion. We can always make the dumbest plights seem noble by comparing them to bigger more important issues.

Comparing Vegetarianism to slavery? What're you smoking...

Animals have a central nervous system. At least 98% of the ones we consume do. Thats means they feel feel pain as much as you or I.

But only for a short time, because we kill them and eat them.

Yes, someone brought God into the discussion! Sweeet...

Say, if god hadn''t meant for us to eat them, why did he make them so tastey and so defenseless to us then?

Edited March 8, 2005 by Monkyburd

[Seraphina]

just to raise a couple of points...

They eat land bare, And destroy what was there. Living baron wastelands in there path

Cows are not the first grazing animal in history. Please don't exagerate the incredible destructive capabilities of the mooing horned ones If grazing was as cataclysmic as you say, then grass would be extinct today.

And, on the other side of the fence...

does not mean they are our equals, they still dont have electricity, or any ways of communication other than "word of mouth", they dont have any source of power, no doctors, no police, etc

Neither would humans if it weren't for the intervention of a few incredible intelligent individuals. There have been in the region of 500 billion humans, and perhaps a few hundred who actually made any advanced for the species whatsoever - on the whole, humans are stupid.

[seeking]

im not sure of your point seraphina? whether humans are stupid or not, we are still way way way above the intelligence of any other animal on earth

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

All this discussion has made me hungry. I think I will have a lean steak. You vegans judgement on us (meat eaters) means about as much to us as a bucket of cattle feed. You will not change our minds or us change yours. So this discussion is really done. Now go eat a burger!

[seeking]

i went to mcdonalds today before work, oh and i just finished watching "supersize me" yesturday haha

[Faeden]

Hi seeking

Sorry in my opinion you have a very selfish attitude, do you think your above someone with a low IQ, or someone who is mentally handicapped? Do you think its OK to eat people that are not very intelligent because of some form of mental or learning deficiency? No!! so why animals.

Just because someone is above someone in intelligence doesn’t mean they have the right to manipulate them for there own needs and greed. Animals act on a whole, a whole lot better than humans do, we have almost destroyed the planet and are fighting huge wars, I think that shows humans are not as intelligent or as you suggest more superior and you claim.

How can you think that just because animals are not as intelligent that they deserve to be eaten for it? I dont know any meat eaters that think like that, Until now that is.

All the best

Faeden

[seeking]

your not getting my point, a mentally handicapped person is still way above the intelligence of an animal, you need to think food chain, we are above other animals on the food chain, we are above them because of our intelligence, it goes hand in hand. why should we not eat the animals that we are above and beyond, again we are above them because of our intelligence, not eating them because you think it is wrong is a step backwards in what we as humans have come to achieve, with the intelligence that brought us to the top of the food chain you are using it to not eat the food? for that sake, why even evolve?

Edited March 9, 2005 by seeking