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el midgetron

Critical Race Theory

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el midgetron

I know posting a 17 minute video is a lot to ask. However, a comment I made in another thread seemed to illicit an interest and also a misunderstanding of the subject. Rather than derail that thread I’ve started this one. 
 

The following is a presentation by CRT opponent Christopher Rufo which outlines CRT’s origins, arguments and conclusions. I welcome proponents of CRT to watch the video and offer their criticism. 
 


I’ll begin the discussion. Critical Race Theory is garbage.

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RavenHawk

We need to confront this racist hatred and Maoist propaganda.  But I think that those in the Ministry of Truth will do everything they can to shut this down.

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Autochthon1990

I'll save you the trouble. The opposition to CRT is the same has everything else regressive in this country, from opposition to universal Healthcare to stopping climate change. Americans are extremely lazy and selfish and addressing the mistakes of the past sounds too hard so its easier to ignore and get back to spanking it.

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papageorge1

How about I just ignore it as worthless over-reactionary material and be done with it. 

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OverSword

Another thread soon to be locked or deleted.  It's an epidemic.  All the fun or interesting political threads just POOF, go away.

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odas

I realy miss to understand why this topic is under so much attack. While, yes, it is focusing primarily on US laws that discriminate a certain population, it can be easily applied to laws in other countries, like Saudi Arabia, where the laws discriminate other faiths.

Be it right or wrong I believe it has value to be thaught.

A question for Americans since I am sincerely not familiar with it: Are Creationism and Evolution thaught in US school ( regular schools not religious ones ) ?

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RavenHawk
9 hours ago, Autochthon1990 said:

I'll save you the trouble. The opposition to CRT is the same has everything else regressive in this country, from opposition to universal Healthcare to stopping climate change.

This is one thing that is disappointing about Gen. Milley.  He said that he had read Marx and Mao.  Has he actually read any of the CRT works, i.e. by Kendi or DiAngelo?  If he had and comprehended it, he’d find Marxism and Maoism dripping off the pages.  I think he has and he does, he’s just protecting his job.  He’s just blind to the gravity of the situation.  But that is just going to come back and bite him in the butt and everybody else that is lazy.  Too many people are under the assumption that “this” can’t happen here.  It can and it is.

 

Regressive is using altruistic sounding terminology as a means to seize power.  Who can be against healthcare?  Forcing people to purchase healthcare insurance when they don’t need it or don’t want it is morally bankrupt.  The job of the government is to protect the individual’s rights, not dictate what they will be.  As far as stopping climate change goes, man can no easier stop climate as he can start it.  It’s another fear mongering tactic to browbeat the public with.  Half the science behind climate change (as well as covid) is being shut down.  When that happens all of science is shutdown and only a narrative is left.  Science is not a consensus.   Science deals with facts and observations based on models and sometimes you have opposing models.  Ignoring the undesired model is not science.  You compare and contrast the two to see what’s right about each one.  not doing so in morally bankrupt.

 

Americans are extremely lazy and selfish and

Yes they are and unscrupulous people from time to time uses that to subjugate the people.

 

addressing the mistakes of the past sounds too hard so its easier to ignore and get back to spanking it.

Your premise is totally false.  We address our mistakes all the time.  There is a proper way of doing it and an incorrect way of doing it.  The proper way is to acknowledge our past, find solutions, and move on.  That is the story of America.  The story of second chances.  We are far from perfect but our system is still the best in the world.  The wrong way to do it is to apologize for our evil past.  Don’t you think every other nation on the planet has an evil past?  Committing seppuku is not fixing the sins of the past.  Starting a race war is not how we move forward but that is how tyrants gain power.  CRT turns class warfare into race warfare, but in the end, it amounts to the same thing.

 

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Michelle
10 minutes ago, odas said:

A question for Americans since I am sincerely not familiar with it: Are Creationism and Evolution thaught in US school ( regular schools not religious ones ) ?

Evolution is taught, creationism is not. Teachers were not allowed to discuss religion in public schools ever since I went to school in Georgia in the '70's. 

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OverSword
14 minutes ago, odas said:

it is focusing primarily on US laws that discriminate a certain population

If this is correct please give some examples.  I don't believe there are any laws that discriminate against anyone because of race or gender.

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spartan max2
Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, odas said:

I realy miss to understand why this topic is under so much attack. While, yes, it is focusing primarily on US laws that discriminate a certain population, it can be easily applied to laws in other countries, like Saudi Arabia, where the laws discriminate other faiths.

Be it right or wrong I believe it has value to be thaught.

A question for Americans since I am sincerely not familiar with it: Are Creationism and Evolution thaught in US school ( regular schools not religious ones ) ?

Can it?

Tell Arabs that they inherently have "Arabness"  which is also a inherently bad thing and that it oppresses their non-arab friends. 

(( I have no idea the Saudi Arabia situations. So change the terms as needed. But you see my point CTR is all about telling whites kids that they inherently have whiteness that is a bad thing that oppresses their non-white friends))

Edited by spartan max2
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Buzz_Light_Year
3 minutes ago, OverSword said:

If this is correct please give some examples.  I don't believe there are any laws that discriminate against anyone because of race or gender.

There are no laws that are still being enforced. I'm sure there are laws still on the books in some regions that are discriminatory but they are not being enforced. Kinda like getting a $25.00 dollar fine for expectorating on the sidewalk they're not enforcing those either.

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spartan max2
10 hours ago, Autochthon1990 said:

I'll save you the trouble. The opposition to CRT is the same has everything else regressive in this country, from opposition to universal Healthcare to stopping climate change. Americans are extremely lazy and selfish and addressing the mistakes of the past sounds too hard so its easier to ignore and get back to spanking it.

What does CTR add that wasent already being taught from your perspective?

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OverSword

 

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odas
23 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Can it?

Tell Arabs that they inherently have "Arabness"  which is also a inherently bad thing and that it oppresses their non-arab friends. 

(( I have no idea the Saudi Arabia situations. So change the terms as needed. But you see my point CTR is all about telling whites kids that they inherently have whiteness that is a bad thing that oppresses their non-white friends))

It is a bad thing if it inherently opresses others no matter the religion, race or nationality.

I am not saying that CRT is right, or wrong, but like with everything it is worth a shot discussing it to come to the right conclusion.

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odas
33 minutes ago, Michelle said:

Evolution is taught, creationism is not. Teachers were not allowed to discuss religion in public schools ever since I went to school in Georgia in the '70's. 

Thank you. Was creationism thaught in the US before the '70's?

As an example, in Germany in the early '70's both were touched on in school but in ex Yugoslavija creationism was a nono only evolution.

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Tatetopa

Well good we are making progress away from racism and we sure don't want to go backwards.  Is it finally time to lower the confederate flags, take down the generals statues, and rename  military bases named after KKK founders?   That would be a non-racist thing to do in keeping with our awareness and hatred of all things racist..

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spartan max2
Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, odas said:

It is a bad thing if it inherently opresses others no matter the religion, race or nationality.

I am not saying that CRT is right, or wrong, but like with everything it is worth a shot discussing it to come to the right conclusion.

So Arabs are inherently oppressive? Wouldn't be a leap to then say inherently bad.

Since they are born with "Arabness".

 

Edit: I know you're not saying that. I'm just trying to show you how CTR would look if applied to a different setting.

 

Edited by spartan max2
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OverSword
2 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Well good we are making progress away from racism and we sure don't want to go backwards.

That's what is being done through CRT.  Bringing peoples race to the forefront of discussion as a means of stereotyping a group.  That is the definition of moving backwards. 

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OverSword

John McWhorter on Firing Line discussing CRT in our schools and our culture

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Buzz_Light_Year
6 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Well good we are making progress away from racism and we sure don't want to go backwards.  Is it finally time to lower the confederate flags, take down the generals statues, and rename  military bases named after KKK founders?   That would be a non-racist thing to do in keeping with our awareness and hatred of all things racist..

I'm sure that the Democrat leadership would like nothing more than to erase their racist past so they can concentrate in blaming conservatives for all things racist.

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Michelle
9 minutes ago, odas said:

Thank you. Was creationism thaught in the US before the '70's?

As an example, in Germany in the early '70's both were touched on in school but in ex Yugoslavija creationism was a nono only evolution.

As far as I know no, it wasn't taught. The teachers made it clear that they didn't believe in evolution in class though.

This, in my opinion, is what they are doing with CRT. It's not actually taught, but worked into every aspect of classes that have nothing to do with it.

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Tatetopa
2 minutes ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

I'm sure that the Democrat leadership would like nothing more than to erase their racist past so they can concentrate in blaming conservatives for all things racist.

Do you want to teach history or not?  Do you want to change it from whites to white Democrats and let CRT carry on? Fine with me.  Put all  the blame on Democrats. 

 If  we are not  racist, then taking down symbols of slavery and past oppression should not be a color issue.  Conservatives should take the noble fight for the principles of the Constitution and equality under the law right to the racist Democrats on this.  Demand that those statues erected by Democrats and those flags flown by Democrats be taken down.   Finally conservatives will find their voice.  Good.

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Autochthon1990
53 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

What does CTR add that wasent already being taught from your perspective?

It actually adds to understanding of how we got to the state we're in. See, if you where under the impression that racism ended in the 1960s and everybody was MLK's best friend, and everything has been fine for fifty years...you see **** like BLM and Detroit and start wondering 'well wait, if racism was defeated forever, why is this a thing', and a disturbingly large amount of people come to some VERY faulty conclusions because of that. 

I've seen it all over the place, people see Ghettos and think, if the above premise is true, it must be something innate to black people that makes it so they don't succeed...whereas one who knows history would be aware that they still have more hurdles then white people to overcome, along with a worse starting position on average. My grandfather had some land and a good bit of education from the GI bill, along with a fair bit of invested wealth. Statistically, a black man of his same age would not have had anywhere close to that much in the way of resources. 

People see BLM protests, and think 'what are they complaining about, I learned in school racism was over'! And of course there's a good bit of money in reinforcing that on the right, you think Tucker Carlson doesn't realize that people /always/ are willing to listen if you tell them what they want to hear? Questioning your world view and things you where taught is hard, and has I've said in other posts, people are lazy when it comes to changing things. In this country, they don't act until its literally 'do something or your entire life explodes'. It's far, far easier and more convenient to brush it off as liberal propaganda, or black people being uppity, because after all, your teachers wouldn't LIE to you...

And the sad thing is, they almost certainly didn't, we've been teaching the lazy, watered down, pleasant view of history for decades. I saw a thanksgiving special as a kid where settlers and Indians where square dancing for chrissakes. Nobody wanted to talk about 'oh by the way, that little Indian girl would be dead of smallpox or possibly married to John Rolfe, and her daddy got her hand chopped off by Christopher Columbus for not mining enough gold'. It's been a long chain of failures after failures, and the people who started this mess are long dead, and due to the culture of the time, likely saw nothing wrong with how they handled things.  

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Hugh Mungus
14 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Do you want to teach history or not?  Do you want to change it from whites to white Democrats and let CRT carry on? Fine with me.  Put all  the blame on Democrats. 

 If  we are not  racist, then taking down symbols of slavery and past oppression should not be a color issue.  Conservatives should take the noble fight for the principles of the Constitution and equality under the law right to the racist Democrats on this.  Demand that those statues erected by Democrats and those flags flown by Democrats be taken down.   Finally conservatives will find their voice.  Good.

You want to both teach history and erase historic statues at the same time?

Sounds like you just want to teach CRT and embolden CRT proponents. 

CRT is what the KKK was saying in the 1960s.

Its saying that being on time and working hard and smart is "whiteness". Being late and not working hard or smart is........

Finish that sentence and you may as well be the grand wizard. These Democrats never stopped being racist. They just repackage it in a way they can get away with

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