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el midgetron

Critical Race Theory

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Autochthon1990
2 minutes ago, Hugh Mungus said:

You want to both teach history and erase historic statues at the same time?

Do me a favor, google the dates that those statues where put up, aside from cemetery plots, then google 'start of jim crow' and 'start of civil rights movement', and see how those dates line up. And at that point, you will understand why they exist. 

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OverSword
25 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Do you want to teach history or not? 

Oh please watch that firing line video I posted above your post.  Get a liberal democrat college professor who happens to be black and very educated on the subjects' POV on this.

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Hugh Mungus
10 minutes ago, Autochthon1990 said:

Do me a favor, google the dates that those statues where put up, aside from cemetery plots, then google 'start of jim crow' and 'start of civil rights movement', and see how those dates line up. And at that point, you will understand why they exist. 

Go back to CRT in this thread and start a new thread about democrats erecting statues 50 years after the Civil War of you want to discuss statues. 

 

 

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Autochthon1990
Just now, Hugh Mungus said:

Go back to CRT in this thread and start a new thread about democrats erecting statues 50 years after the Civil War of you want to discuss statues. 

 

 

Oh lord, did you really never google 'southern strategy' after the last time you tried that canard?

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Hugh Mungus
8 minutes ago, Autochthon1990 said:

Oh lord, did you really never google 'southern strategy' after the last time you tried that canard?

Rationalize it any way you want. It's still Democrats proposing racist policies TODAY with  CRT. How does that fit in with your BS southern strategy lie

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RavenHawk
21 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Well good we are making progress away from racism and we sure don't want to go backwards.

Except, that CRT is dragging racism forward.  Do you think it helps when a theory claims that whites are inherently oppressors and blacks are perpetual victims?  That flies in the face of history.

 

Is it finally time to lower the confederate flags, take down the generals statues, and rename  military bases named after KKK founders?   

It is never time to do that.  For good or bad, this is our history.  What needs to happen is a change of perspective.  These men and the flag are not one dimensional.  They stood for something far more important than race.  Gen. Lee has been described as the second most beloved American general.  I can only guess that Eisenhower has surpassed Lee and no one else.  There is someone driving around town that is flying the Betsy Ross flag with the Stars & Bars.  Someone was saying they couldn’t understand why someone would do that?  I simply responded that they are both flags of rebellion.  Sometimes, one has to think that rebellion is the national pastime.  This is the nation of second chances.  Give these names, these men a second chance by using their name, their images to redeem their reputation by representing an American institution.  To remove names and tear down statues for past transgressions, is destroying our history and culture.  That is Maoism and the cultural revolution.  In the cultural revolution, everything was based in class and needed to be removed.  Today, racism is evil and needs to be removed, tomorrow, it will be the Bill of Rights.  Where does it stop?

 

That would be a non-racist thing to do in keeping with our awareness and hatred of all things racist..

But that’s not what will happen.  This is a power grab, nothing less.  they will use racism as a means of control.

 

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odas
1 hour ago, spartan max2 said:

So Arabs are inherently oppressive? Wouldn't be a leap to then say inherently bad.

Since they are born with "Arabness".

 

Edit: I know you're not saying that. I'm just trying to show you how CTR would look if applied to a different setting.

 

And I agree with your Edited statement. I agree because there is more truth to it than we realize.

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el midgetron
41 minutes ago, Autochthon1990 said:


And the sad thing is, they almost certainly didn't, we've been teaching the lazy, watered down, pleasant view of history for decades. I saw a thanksgiving special as a kid where settlers and Indians where square dancing for chrissakes. Nobody wanted to talk about 'oh by the way, that little Indian girl would be dead of smallpox or possibly married to John Rolfe, and her daddy got her hand chopped off by Christopher Columbus for not mining enough gold'. It's been a long chain of failures after failures, and the people who started this mess are long dead, and due to the culture of the time, likely saw nothing wrong with how they handled things.  

The Thanksgiving special you saw as a kid was intended for kids. Perhaps violence and murder isn’t appropriate for a children’s holiday special? None the less, it’s a matter of history that the settlers and natives did have pleasant interactions and relations. It’s also a matter of history that settlers and native had violent conflict and atrocities. Your narrative of that history is no less slanted and biased than a square dancing children’s holiday special. The only difference is that you are speaking to adults.

The horrors that happened between the settlers and the natives is not some obscure hidden history. In fact it’s not even something unique or special. Human history is littered with brutality and horror, it’s completely common place. In fact it’s so common place that when the early explorers arrived in the Americas they were greeted by natives who were busy butchering their slaves and prisoners on top of giant pyramids. Atrocities of every sort were completely common place in the Americas (just like the rest of the world) before anyone ever crossed over the Atlantic. 

Columbus did not chop hands off. That claim stems from Howard Zinn who’s work is factually on par with Nikole Hannah-Jones. 

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odas
1 hour ago, Michelle said:

As far as I know no, it wasn't taught. The teachers made it clear that they didn't believe in evolution in class though.

This, in my opinion, is what they are doing with CRT. It's not actually taught, but worked into every aspect of classes that have nothing to do with it.

Thank you.

Another question, not only for you, do you think that black people in US are more violent than white people? I understand it is a unfair question and no problem if there is no answer.

Thanks.

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RavenHawk
5 minutes ago, odas said:

Thank you.

Another question, not only for you, do you think that black people in US are more violent than white people? I understand it is a unfair question and no problem if there is no answer.

Thanks.

No, I do not think blacks are more violent than whites.  No race is more violent than another.  We are human beings.  Being violent is a natural state.

 

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aztek
Posted (edited)

but the stats show in general they ARE, lets go by facts, not Vertie signaling emotions, what communities are mostly hit by violence?? black community, who is acting violent against them? other blacks,

and before racist came here screaming, NO, IT IS NOT RACIST TO STATE FACTS, IT IS RACIST TO BELIEVE YOUR WHITE COLOR IS YOUR FLAW 

Edited by aztek
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OverSword
10 minutes ago, odas said:

Thank you.

Another question, not only for you, do you think that black people in US are more violent than white people? I understand it is a unfair question and no problem if there is no answer.

Thanks.

 

1 minute ago, RavenHawk said:

No, I do not think blacks are more violent than whites.  No race is more violent than another.  We are human beings.  Being violent is a natural state.

 

@RavenHawk the question was "do you think that black people in US are more violent than white people?" The answer based on violent crime statistics is sadly yes they are.  But it's not a fair question.  The fair question is Why are they and what could be done to address that and change it. I'm sure an honest answer to why would never be because of the color of their skin.  It would probably have more to do with a combination of economic conditions and the culture promoted in the environment where they live. 

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Hugh Mungus
8 minutes ago, OverSword said:

 

@RavenHawk the question was "do you think that black people in US are more violent than white people?" The answer based on violent crime statistics is sadly yes they are.  But it's not a fair question.  The fair question is Why are they and what could be done to address that and change it. I'm sure an honest answer to why would never be because of the color of their skin.  It would probably have more to do with a combination of economic conditions and the culture promoted in the environment where they live. 

Perhaps the negative education and affirmative action programs which expect less of a person due to their skin color might have something to do with it. I'm sure if you look at the stats going back 60 years, black Americans were not always so disproportionatly represented.

Something must be the cause, and I'm sure America is less racist now than 60 years ago

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OverSword
1 minute ago, Hugh Mungus said:

Perhaps the negative education and affirmative action programs which expect less of a person due to their skin color might have something to do with it. I'm sure if you look at the stats going back 60 years, black Americans were not always so disproportionatly represented.

Something must be the cause, and I'm sure America is less racist now than 60 years ago

I'm sure there are many factors that contribute to this disparity.  Who knows, maybe racism even contributes to it.  I'm sure it's due more to the lack of two parent households and the celebration of gang culture and lack of local economic opportunities within the community.

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RavenHawk
16 minutes ago, OverSword said:

 

@RavenHawk the question was "do you think that black people in US are more violent than white people?" The answer based on violent crime statistics is sadly yes they are.  But it's not a fair question.  The fair question is Why are they and what could be done to address that and change it. I'm sure an honest answer to why would never be because of the color of their skin.  It would probably have more to do with a combination of economic conditions and the culture promoted in the environment where they live. 

Statistically, they commit more crime.  That doesn’t make them more violent.  If CRT continues to be foisted upon the people, you’ll see the whites live up to expectations and will lay waste in more violence than you thought possible.  Don’t poke the tiger with a stick.

 

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OverSword
4 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

Statistically, they commit more crime.  That doesn’t make them more violent.  If CRT continues to be foisted upon the people, you’ll see the whites live up to expectations and will lay waste in more violence than you thought possible.  Don’t poke the tiger with a stick.

 

 

 

Wasn't saying they are more violent because of their race, pointing out that the question is a bit dishonest.

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el midgetron

It’s nothing to do with skin color, it has everything to do with cultural values. Asian Americans don’t out perform whites academically and economically because the shade of their skin. They excel because they have tightly knit family units and a strong work ethic. 

America was indeed more racist before the Civil Rights Movement. Yet back then fewer than 20% of black children were born out of wedlock. Compared to over 70% born out of wedlock today.  That shift in values didn’t happen because of racism. 

 

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aztek
Posted (edited)

whatever the reason, black community is more violent than a white one. whether it is race, genetics, or culture is irrelevant,

Quote

"There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps and start thinking about robbery. Then (I) look around and see someone white and feel relieved."

Jesse Jackson

Edited by aztek

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RavenHawk
2 minutes ago, aztek said:

whatever the reason, black community is more violent than a white one. whether it is race, genetics, or culture is irrelevant,

I would not want to walk down a dark alley if I see blacks.  But I would not want to walk down a dark alley if I see whites.  I.e., it's not the color but the darkness.

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Tatetopa
2 hours ago, Hugh Mungus said:

Finish that sentence and you may as well be the grand wizard. These Democrats never stopped being racist. They just repackage it in a way they can get away with

 

2 hours ago, Hugh Mungus said:

You want to both teach history and erase historic statues at the same time?

Perfect Hugh, I am asking which you want to do.  Either you teach history or you don't.  Either you embrace racism or you don't.  I just like consistency.  

I don't care what Democrats do, I don't care what Republicans do.  I care about principles, policy, and honesty.  Democrats should be condemned for what they continue to do wrong . They need to stop.

You claim to have principles, then put a stop to what they are doing that is racist in your eyes.  Stand up for not being racist. 

You think being on time and working hard is good?  So do I.  You think it is whiteness?  I don't.  If somebody tells me it is, I am willing to argue the point with them.  Stupidity is not limited to one faction, there is plenty to go around.

If we want to believe in American exceptionalism, then we have to work to be exceptional.  You can't be a leader by setting your standards to the lowest possible denominator.  You can't remain exceptional by relying on what your ancestors did and not try to do even better than they did.

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OverSword

@Tatetopa And we know damn well that what both do is virtue signal and then pass legislation that makes they and they're wealthy donors wealthier and more powerful.  CRT of course makes this easier by widening the divide and distracting.

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Hugh Mungus
9 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

You think being on time and working hard is good?  So do I.  You think it is whiteness?  I don't.  If somebody tells me it is, I am willing to argue the point with them.  Stupidity is not limited to one faction, there is plenty to go around.

 

Then you disagree with CRT. That is the premise.

 

To answer the question, I do not think you should ascribe good or bad characteristics to entire races of people. I believe in treating everyone as an individual.

 Yes both sides are virtue signaling, but only one side is being called racist by the media and it's not the side that is being racist.

 

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Tatetopa
2 hours ago, OverSword said:

Oh please watch that firing line video I posted above your post.  Get a liberal democrat college professor who happens to be black and very educated on the subjects' POV on this.

It is a good video.  I am not a proponent of critical race theory, nor as they say in the video whitewashing American history.  Truth about the past would be good.  Truth about today would also be good.  

The reaction to CRT just seems a little too phony, such excitable denial of all things racist in our society.  We ought be bold enough and mature enough in our society to talk about what experience some people have that leads them to believe CRT is the way to go  Getting all irate and pretending we don't have problems is not very mature either.  No problem gets better by ignoring it.  

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OverSword
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

It is a good video.  I am not a proponent of critical race theory, nor as they say in the video whitewashing American history.  Truth about the past would be good.  Truth about today would also be good.  

The reaction to CRT just seems a little too phony, such excitable denial of all things racist in our society.  We ought be bold enough and mature enough in our society to talk about what experience some people have that leads them to believe CRT is the way to go  Getting all irate and pretending we don't have problems is not very mature either.  No problem gets better by ignoring it.  

My point was that your post about teaching history or not as an argument against being critical of CRT is considered a red herring by John McWhorter.  Nobody that is against CRT is saying don't teach history.

Edited by OverSword
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Tatetopa
1 minute ago, Hugh Mungus said:

To answer the question, I do not think you should ascribe good or bad characteristics to entire races of people. I believe in treating everyone as an individual.

 Yes both sides are virtue signaling, but only one side is being called racist by the media and it's not the side that is being racist.

I'm down with that, I don't much care about prescribing any characteristics to any race.   What I would hold people accountable for is their actions, not their characteristics. 

Is FOX news calling you racist?  I don't think even media is a single class.  FOX news has the biggest viewership of any mainstream media station.  CNN may be, MSNBC may be, but FOX has almost as many viewers as the other two combined. 

As you say, there is a lot of virtue signaling. by both sides.

  

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