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Eldorado

Can consciousness be explained by quantum physics?

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Eldorado

Our brains are composed of cells called neurons, and their combined activity is believed to generate consciousness. Each neuron contains microtubules, which transport substances to different parts of the cell. The Penrose-Hameroff theory of quantum consciousness argues that microtubules are structured in a fractal pattern which would enable quantum processes to occur.

Fractals are structures that are neither two-dimensional nor three-dimensional, but are instead some fractional value in between. In mathematics, fractals emerge as beautiful patterns that repeat themselves infinitely, generating what is seemingly impossible: a structure that has a finite area, but an infinite perimeter.

Full monty at the Conversation: Link

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HandsomeGorilla

Whether some realize or not, coincides well with your thread on people experimenting with psychedelics; reference to fractals 

The concept of fractals show up in your face. They allow you to see the things you're struggling to put together in your mind

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papageorge1
Posted (edited)

Here's what I understand from my study of Theosophical and other esoteric wisdom traditions that discuss the world beyond the 'seen' level.

plane-nature-chart-1.jpg

Thought is created in our Mental Body on the Mental Plane of nature. Through downward causation the effect is carried to the lower astral and then physical planes by sympathetic vibrations. So brain activity is actually just the physical corollary activity of thought and not the thinker. 

Now brain scientists like those mentioned can only see physical activity with their senses and instruments. So, the effects of higher dimensional vibrations on the physical will only look like unpredictable mysterious quantum weirdness at the physical level.

From other sources I suspect this fractal stuff is involved and is nature's way of accomplishing things but that part is currently beyond my level of expertise.

Edited by papageorge1
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Tom1200

Was anyone confused by this sentence?

On 7/23/2021 at 10:20 PM, Eldorado said:

Fractals are structures that are neither two-dimensional nor three-dimensional, but are instead some fractional value in between.

For clarification - fractals can be two-dimensional (we also call that a drawing) or three-dimensional (i.e. a solid) and NOT something in between.  That would be silly.

What the article refers to is the Hausdorff dimension.  That's something mathematicians use to measure of how bumpy a fractal is.  It has nothing to do with the 2D/3D normal people know about. 

Mathematicians are not normal.

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NotAlien7

If science ever does explain consciousness then come to understand it's complexity that would be only a step away from manipulation abilities which could be weaponized against populations.
Is there a person on earth anyone would trust with such technology?

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fred_mc
Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Tom1200 said:

...

Mathematicians are not normal.

I think you probably need to think abnormally to try to understand reality because quantum physics is not normal, it is weird, yet experiments are over and over again showing that it seems to be true.

Edited by fred_mc
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Tom1200
6 minutes ago, fred_mc said:

I think you probably need to think abnormally to try to understand reality because quantum physics is not normal, it is weird, yet experiments are over and over again showing that it seems to be true.

Very true!  The square root of minus one and all that malarkey.  That's the thing I love about maths (but hated at the time) - just when you think you've understood something they hit you with a whole new level of weirdness.  "But one plus one always equals two?  Doesn't it?  Please?"

I was in the Physics department.  I won't call myself a physicist because I was rubbish at it, and I wish I'd dropped out and tried something else, but I struggled on for three years to complete my degree.  Most of the physics students were geeky, but we were nothing compared to the mathematicians next door.  They were... wrong.

And you're completely correct - reality at the quantum level requires a wholly counter-intuitive approach and mathematics: a discipline that's a hundred years old and still developing rapidly.  As far as I can see that's the only reason we keep mathematicians - they have no other practical use.

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Manwon Lender
19 minutes ago, fred_mc said:

I think you probably need to think abnormally to try to understand reality because quantum physics is not normal, it is weird, yet experiments are over and over again showing that it seems to be true.

This is what separates an Einstein or Hawking from those who are brilliant Physicists across Acedamia. Some individuals have the ability to not only think outside the box, they can also conceptionalize and visualize in their minds what others just can't comprehend. Tesla was another one of these brilliant and special individuals who changed our knowledge and technology in his field of Science. 

The next genus who may add some of the missing pieces or possible fill in the blanks in our current knowledge of physics may be out there right now, only time will tell. However, if mankind survives even another 200 years this world will be a very interest place.

JIMO

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psyche101
On 7/24/2021 at 8:38 AM, papageorge1 said:

Here's what I understand from my study of Theosophical and other esoteric wisdom traditions that discuss the world beyond the 'seen' level.

plane-nature-chart-1.jpg

Thought is created in our Mental Body on the Mental Plane of nature. Through downward causation the effect is carried to the lower astral and then physical planes by sympathetic vibrations. So brain activity is actually just the physical corollary activity of thought and not the thinker. 

Now brain scientists like those mentioned can only see physical activity with their senses and instruments. So, the effects of higher dimensional vibrations on the physical will only look like unpredictable mysterious quantum weirdness at the physical level.

From other sources I suspect this fractal stuff is involved and is nature's way of accomplishing things but that part is currently beyond my level of expertise.

That's got nothing to do with the OP. It's theorising structure. The title is a bit of a misnomer. The attention schema theory is the best description of consiouness to date. 

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CuriousEye
On 7/26/2021 at 2:32 AM, fred_mc said:

I think you probably need to think abnormally to try to understand reality because quantum physics is not normal, it is weird, yet experiments are over and over again showing that it seems to be true.

Quantum physics if it was a person, from the viewpoints of many Be Like:
 

 

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Rlyeh
On 7/26/2021 at 4:42 AM, NotAlien7 said:

If science ever does explain consciousness then come to understand it's complexity that would be only a step away from manipulation abilities which could be weaponized against populations.
Is there a person on earth anyone would trust with such technology?

You know we can already manipulate consciousness?

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Desertrat56
7 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

You know we can already manipulate consciousness?

Yep. It is done every day with television.

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CuriousEye
Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, Rlyeh said:

You know we can already manipulate consciousness?

I think he meant there on a fundamental level, least quantum-dimensional level, rather than various conventional means (neurochemicals, hypnotism/hypnotherapy, manipulation tactics, psychological torture, mind conditioning/brainwashing, indoctrination, social engineering, neurolinguistic suggestion, peer influence, herd mindset, etcetera) .

 

At this point, we wouldn't even truly speak about mind-over-mind phenomena anymore, but about the notion of a mass manipulation of "souls", given that the very metaphysical conception about a soul per se is the fundamental essence of any living or animate thing.
If you see some beefy militaristic Head of State drawing nationally wide pentagrams around, run.

 

 

Edited by CuriousEye

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Rlyeh
6 hours ago, CuriousEye said:

I think he meant there on a fundamental level, least quantum-dimensional level, rather than various conventional means (neurochemicals, hypnotism/hypnotherapy, manipulation tactics, psychological torture, mind conditioning/brainwashing, indoctrination, social engineering, neurolinguistic suggestion, peer influence, herd mindset, etcetera) .

Which is an assumption at this point.

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and then
On 7/26/2021 at 1:56 AM, Tom1200 said:

They were... wrong

Weird radio, hombre... weird radio...

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CuriousEye
On 7/30/2021 at 4:36 AM, Rlyeh said:

Which is an assumption at this point.

Obviously, of course.

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