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Raven667

Separation of Church and State

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third_eye

Sounds good... 

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[00.01:00]

~

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Mr Walker
13 hours ago, eight bits said:

We've corresponded for a long time now, so nobody can be too surprised that my "attitude" toward you has evolved over all those years. I don't think there was any sudden change, neither in attitude nor in learning about your religious commitments.

For a long time, I'd found your gratuitous anti-Catholic remarks grating, and said so, without associating them with any specific denomination. Similarly, as various Bible threads would come up, I noticed your interpretations of Old and New Testament episodes to be both hyper-conservative and presented very insistently for somebody whose background was supposedly secular humanist. The name for what you were writing is apologetics, and that it was some sort of fundamentalist Protestant apologetics was only too obvious.

Two things that finally "closed the trap" for me were your complaints that one of the Roman Catholic Church's worst sins was that that denomination supposedly instituted Sunday weekly worship (the distinctive and otherwise arcane issue which gives "Seventh Day" adventism that much of its name) and the recurring curiosity that so many of your lifestyle googlefruits came from SDA healthcare sources (Loma Linda, indeed).

I don't think your wife's adherence was a factor at all. I'd figured out your religion by the time you discussed hers (or at least discussed it in any thread I was following). There's simply no surpise that the spouse of an SDA apologist would also be an SDA adherent.

 

I don't have a strongly held opinion about what physical circumstance caused her to experience visions. I do disagree with her interpretation of those visions, and of course, I am less likely than you are to attribute them to anything paranormal.

The plagiarism matter only came up here because it is something I believe that we've discussed in the past.

Big picture, I have a hobbyist's interest in American spiritualist and homebrew religons, especially post-Civil War and pre-WW I. It was (to me) a very interesting time and place for comparative religion. I can even go visit many of the "rooms where it happened," as the song from Hamilton puts it. I enjoy that sort of thing. So sure, Ellen White was a player. And if an SDA apologist happens to cross my path, then at some point we'll probably talk about her. But inevitably, she will loom larger in the SDA's sphere of interest than my own more general interest in the era when she was active.

The "anti catholic" remarks come from several sources 

and indeed are a form of conscious  judgement 

First the historical harm done by catholic beliefs  although you cant blame current people for historical practices. Second the fear which this faith engenders in people and the belief tha t only the church can "save" you rather than your own relationship with god 

Third the way it  reconstructed Christ's teachings to fit its own need for power and centralised authority, Its attitude to women and to jews being contrary to the words of the bible,  but especially the idea of eternal damnation in hell which simply contradicts the actual words of the bible and was constructed to maintain control over the populace  (hence the ban for centuries on Catholics owning or reading their own bibles) 

Gee even my rejection by the  parents of girls when i was in my teens because i was not a catholic (but an atheist) played a pert  

I disapprove of traditional Catholicism for many good reasons, including historical philosophical and ethical but  it's the institution, not the people, i disapprove of  

I had no childhood prejudice but when,in m y early twenties  i began studying with  many religious groups i realised the strengths and weakness of each.  As i studied history I became more aware of the negative role of the church in peoples'  lives through history (as well as its beneficial ones )  I had always known that my Scottish/English history stretching back 1000 years probably predisposed me to Protestantism.

  In my studies the lifestyle  and values of Adventism appealed tome as a social form (belief and faith is irrelevant tome )   

So i had no problem  adapting to and adopting many of the  Adventist  practices when i met my wife, 

(eg giving up drinking alcohol) but i never believed the theology, and for that reason refused any positions in the church 

  I suspect that much of the suspicion,  fear, and hatred of religion from posters here comes from  the role Catholicism played in their upbringing and the harm it  did  

Faith is supposed to be empowering healing etc  Not to hurt or scare you .

Loma linda is a reputable academic institution However much of my interest and information about lifestyle came from  the work on Blue zones by Dan Buettner   which i first read about in the national geographic 

The other points i make about the positive impact of a faith and church attendance on helath and longevity are scientific  fact,  and are recognised in modern medical teaching and practice 

So it seems tha t you took offence to my dislike of Catholicism,  which goes to my point about your own beliefs/values  and Adventist criticism of them 

it just happens that t Adventists, Mormons and jws who live a more traditional  biblical lifestyle /diet LIVE in ways which give greater health and longevity in the modern world   Living a Buddhist lifestyle and diet probably has a similar effect 

Lastly you misjudge me perhaps because i dont operate the way you do or think as you do 

I am not an ADHERENT of any church I belong  to no church.  I haven't  attended  any church for decades. i live a life which is compatible with my wifes beliefs but also good for me and which is suited to my community My own values  began as humanist and basically remain tha t way but are similar to many Adventist Buddhist and Jainist prnciples  

One can live happily and successfully with others while maintaining totally their own individual beliefs and values.

Its only when thse values influence outward behaviour that conflict CAN arise  Ie my mind is very separate   from  my body.

On the core issue of Adventism 

I dont believe the church had the authority to alter the bible Catholics DO believe this and state so openly 

Thus as an historian and  philosophically, I believe Christianity was formed around the 10 commandments, the central  of which is the one about the Sabbath, which is the seventh day of the week not the first 

Thus, what ever your faith, or lack of it 

if  (as a christian) you wish to follow the bible rather than  the authority of a church, you cant be Catholic  

of course you CAN still be a christian, but not a biblically based one.

It goes back to the spilt in the reformation, but many of the reformed churches accepted without thought the catholic change  to the Sabbath  ( perhaps because it was now so much a part of every day life that it could not be changed.) 

 

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Nuclear Wessel
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

However this is a role of love and giving, not one of dependency or duty.  I dont HAVE to care for my wife, i choose to, along with professional helo.

Are you otherwise legally identified as being her caregiver? Depending on your circumstances, the law may disagree.

I'm sure @Sherapy could shed more light on this, but I do feel like there is some degree of legal obligation for you to care for her in your circumstances.

Edited by Nuclear Wessel
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third_eye

Imaginary medication isn't a remedy for imaginary mental breakdown... 

Quote
Semantic Scholar extracted view of "Kafka's Identity Crisis: Examining The Metamorphosis as a Response to Anti-Semitism and Assimilation in ...
 
...
by SB Classon · 2014 · Cited by 7 — A masterpiece of modern literature, it explores the universal concerns and struggles of Modernity, but also offers insight...
 
...

~

 

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Sherapy
1 hour ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Are you otherwise legally identified as being her caregiver? Depending on your circumstances, the law may disagree.

I'm sure @Sherapy could shed more light on this, but I do feel like there is some degree of legal obligation for you to care for her in your circumstances.

Nuke this is a fabulous question and I will ask my friend who is an attorney.  
 


 

 

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Mr Walker
4 hours ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Are you otherwise legally identified as being her caregiver? Depending on your circumstances, the law may disagree.

I'm sure @Sherapy could shed more light on this, but I do feel like there is some degree of legal obligation for you to care for her in your circumstances.

lol no Our family has never much been into legalism Eg we cared for her parents with Alzheimers for a decade, without any legal  requirement to do so, and without any govt support or legal authority,   but with the support /approval of all her  family .

We cared for many young children and teenagers without any govt support or legal authority.  

That is not to say that we weren't recognised and  unofficially supported by the law and other professionals, we just never had any binding legal agreements or expectations   ( Although  i think that as my wife ' s parents conditions worsened we did get an enduring power of attorney, so that we could authorise medical care . 

I expect Australia, and especially rural Australia is less legalistic than America, although this  is changing to give greater protection for  children and the elderly.

  We operated within a community where both our families had lived and were known, trusted, and respected, for well over 100 years, and our combined extended families numbered  well over 200 

lol The modern way is personal rights, not caring for others. In Australia a person can walk away from  a marriage with little legal responsibility other than to any children and, of course, so many do. 

I have a legal duty not to harm her,  but none to support her .Indeed the belief of the modern feminist philosophy reflected in govt policy is that she is  capable , and thus responsible for herself   Neither do parents have a duty to support their children after the y reach the age of majority or chose to leave home  and nor do  children have any legal duty  to care for their parents in old age. 

Those are considered the government's role  

My point was that I  act from  love, not legal responsibility, or even a moral responsibility.

   I might be wrong but i think sherapy sees relationships in a different light to me   Love  brings a greater degree of care and responsibility than any  legal requirement  or sense of duty,  could do .

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Mr Walker
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Nuke this is a fabulous question and I will ask my friend who is an attorney.  
 


 

 

I'd be interested in their opinion on American law, but remember, I am NOT legally her care giver,  I am her husband

I get no payment. I have no contracts or agreement,  and i have no  greater duty of care than any person does for another. 

To have it otherwise would compromise her autonomy, and independence as a human being   I cant even access her bank accounts or cards .  I cant make medical or other decisions for her and she wouldn't want me to. She wants to retain her personal  autonomy until/if her mind begins to fail,   and I totally agree with her on this. 

I go with her, and sit with her, for medical or financial appointments, in part because she needs me to push her wheelchair (and she likes to have me as a back up for remembering and understanding some things, )  but she makes the decisions.   

a quick google indicates that neither in America nor Australia does one person in a marriage   have any legal duty of care to the other partner outside of general life saving requirements  Egif your partner was having a heat attack and you refused to call for an ambulance you might be charged 

In one state in America at least , (Illinois) medical expenses may be taken from  one person to pay for their spouse's care (Family Expense statute ) but that is  rare and isn't the case in Australia, in part because of our medical system  providing free health care 

Edited by Mr Walker

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Nuclear Wessel
Posted (edited)
34 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

lol no Our family has never much been into legalism Eg we cared for her parents with Alzheimers for a decade, without any legal  requirement to do so, and without any govt support or legal authority,   but with the support /approval of all her  family .

We cared for many young children and teenagers without any govt support or legal authority.  

That is not to say that we weren't recognised and  unofficially supported by the law and other professionals, we just never had any binding legal agreements or expectations   ( Although  i think that as my wife ' s parents conditions worsened we did get an enduring power of attorney, so that we could authorise medical care . 

I expect Australia, and especially rural Australia is less legalistic than America, although this  is changing to give greater protection for  children and the elderly.

  We operated within a community where both our families had lived and were known, trusted, and respected, for well over 100 years, and our combined extended families numbered  well over 200 

lol The modern way is personal rights, not caring for others. In Australia a person can walk away from  a marriage with little legal responsibility other than to any children and, of course, so many do. 

I have a legal duty not to harm her,  but none to support her .Indeed the belief of the modern feminist philosophy reflected in govt policy is that she is  capable , and thus responsible for herself   Neither do parents have a duty to support their children after the y reach the age of majority or chose to leave home  and nor do  children have any legal duty  to care for their parents in old age. 

Those are considered the government's role  

My point was that I  act from  love, not legal responsibility, or even a moral responsibility.

   I might be wrong but i think sherapy sees relationships in a different light to me   Love  brings a greater degree of care and responsibility than any  legal requirement  or sense of duty,  could do .

So she's not recognized by the government as being a dependant, nor are you seen as her primary caregiver?

Edited by Nuclear Wessel

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Mr Walker
Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

I truly enjoy the manner in which you calmly, respectfully, and sincerely presented your response to his post. I have had a number of exchanges with the gentlemen, below I have listed a Buddhist Quote that to me is a very wise way to think before words are spoken. I also believe this is something he has never been able to grasp, and his comments prove it!

Peace my friend:tu:

8B31A3E7-CE1A-4363-9A4C-6DB8E2D6B708-8234-00000AA49441FA6C.jpg

I respect 8 bits point of view

However he is wrong about me, and that error can only come from  within his  own world view and beliefs   (given that I've outlined, truthfully my own life more than any other poster on UM )

Plus he, and you, and I, are different 

I can go with a person to church for a decade quite happily without believing anything said in that church and never argue with them about their beliefs   Their inner beliefs are really none of my business, as long as the y are happy and content . 

It is a part of a marriage and love 

I think as i like, and do as is best . 

I can be married to a person with totally  different views and beliefs, without any conflict because  i am not threatened by difference and not emotionally committed to any belief or cause  

Only where a change in behaviour is required MAY a problem arise, and even there,  with love its no great  deal to adapt your behaviours to a partners expectations  .especially where it is mutual.

As i said and shocked you before, if i remarried a Buddhist or jew or Muslim i would happily adopt the form of their  religion  as part of the marriage, because it really doesn't matter to me.

I live with god on my own terms. 

As long as what a partner asks of me doesn't require me to go against my own individual, basic morals and values, there will be no problem. 

Edited by Mr Walker
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Mr Walker
Just now, Nuclear Wessel said:

So she's not recognized by the government as being dependant on you, nor are you seen as her primary caregiver?

Correct. Thats the  case with all husband wife relationships normally  She has people who help with domestic and medical needs paid for by the govt  We are both on the age pension and i am not on a carer's pension or allowance 

Modern feminism has  (rightly) removed the concept  of dependency  by a female on a male. They are no longer referred to as dependents, but partners. 

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Sherapy
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

lol no Our family has never much been into legalism Eg we cared for her parents with Alzheimers for a decade, without any legal  requirement to do so, and without any govt support or legal authority,   but with the support /approval of all her  family .

We cared for many young children and teenagers without any govt support or legal authority.  

That is not to say that we weren't recognised and  unofficially supported by the law and other professionals, we just never had any binding legal agreements or expectations   ( Although  i think that as my wife ' s parents conditions worsened we did get an enduring power of attorney, so that we could authorise medical care . 

I expect Australia, and especially rural Australia is less legalistic than America, although this  is changing to give greater protection for  children and the elderly.

  We operated within a community where both our families had lived and were known, trusted, and respected, for well over 100 years, and our combined extended families numbered  well over 200 

lol The modern way is personal rights, not caring for others. In Australia a person can walk away from  a marriage with little legal responsibility other than to any children and, of course, so many do. 

I have a legal duty not to harm her,  but none to support her .Indeed the belief of the modern feminist philosophy reflected in govt policy is that she is  capable , and thus responsible for herself   Neither do parents have a duty to support their children after the y reach the age of majority or chose to leave home  and nor do  children have any legal duty  to care for their parents in old age. 

Those are considered the government's role  

My point was that I  act from  love, not legal responsibility, or even a moral responsibility.

   I might be wrong but i think sherapy sees relationships in a different light to me   Love  brings a greater degree of care and responsibility than any  legal requirement  or sense of duty,  could do .

Not providing financial support for a dependent spouse in need is heinous at best. In my mind, one that was encouraged by way of verbal agreement, long term financial dependence and it is part and parcel of love, of course, one could have prepared for this long ago. Most people have money set aside for their needs as they get older, we all get something, yet, few think about this when they are young, but should. If I could suggest anything it would be to have money put aside in the event of health catastrophes. 

For you, without the extra money it is gonna require to hire caregivers it is gonna be a rough road for you, this is why I tell you get it together and get yourself in tip top shape physically to the best of your ability. For all your running around and sitting and reading books all day and being on the computer posting on UM, you could be using that time to focus on getting yourself fit. In my field, having heart issues is not ideal for caregiver work. The lifting alone that you will need to do after her hip replacement surgery will do you in otherwise, I see this all the time spouses who are so tired and overwhelmed with health issues of there own in their late 70s and 80s with the amount of care a disabled person needs on top of running and maintaining a household, many end up in worse health then the person they care for it is the equivalent of having a child only one is old and tore up. 
 


 

‘I sincerely wish you the best, you are gonna need it. 

Edited by Sherapy
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third_eye

Don't grumble... Give a whistle... 

And this'll help things turn out for the best... 

Quote

 

[00.03:11]

~

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Nuclear Wessel
27 minutes ago, third_eye said:

Don't grumble... Give a whistle... 

And this'll help things turn out for the best... 

[00.03:11]

~

Life's a piece of **** when you look at it!

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third_eye
16 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

Life's a piece of **** when you look at it!

Don't look, just live... 

:D

~

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Mr Walker
On 8/1/2021 at 12:44 AM, Sherapy said:

Not providing financial support for a dependent spouse in need is heinous at best. In my mind, one that was encouraged by way of verbal agreement, long term financial dependence and it is part and parcel of love, of course, one could have prepared for this long ago. Most people have money set aside for their needs as they get older, we all get something, yet, few think about this when they are young, but should. If I could suggest anything it would be to have money put aside in the event of health catastrophes. 

For you, without the extra money it is gonna require to hire caregivers it is gonna be a rough road for you, this is why I tell you get it together and get yourself in tip top shape physically to the best of your ability. For all your running around and sitting and reading books all day and being on the computer posting on UM, you could be using that time to focus on getting yourself fit. In my field, having heart issues is not ideal for caregiver work. The lifting alone that you will need to do after her hip replacement surgery will do you in otherwise, I see this all the time spouses who are so tired and overwhelmed with health issues of there own in their late 70s and 80s with the amount of care a disabled person needs on top of running and maintaining a household, many end up in worse health then the person they care for it is the equivalent of having a child only one is old and tore up. 
 


 

‘I sincerely wish you the best, you are gonna need it. 

No such thing as a dependent spouse anymore  in Australia.

Plus our healthcare and other care needs are mostly paid for by the govt from taxes and levies paid while we were working 

I had about  $350000 in superannuation when I retired 

Paid off all my debts except our mortgage (which only existed because our first house was lost in the bushfire )

I have been receiving a pension from  the  2 superannuation funds i belong to, but one has almost run out and the other is quite small

For 40 years i provided all the income, but my wife and I now each get the aged pension of about  $720 a fortnight each  

If you read my posts you might have noted that the govt gives my wife $1800 every month to pay for care and aids.

This can only be used for those purposes ATM she only uses about half of it so it accumulates for later need 

I am going to ignore your gratuitous advice. I t is uninformed because again you don't  READ what i post  OR you make invalid assumptions Eg the other  day I said i  made  some vegetarian pasties 

You said this was unhealthy However the y included grated  fresh onion,  carrot, potato, turnips, swedes, and low fat cheese 

 The recipe came from  a heart foundation healthy cook book  Same for the pizzas i mentioned.  Home made with tomato paste, low fat cheese, olives,  tomato  mushrooms, pineapple,  onions and half with chicken  strips  from a fresh cooked chicken  

Ive given my daily routine a couple of times. it is balanced 

ive given my health indicators like blood pressure cholesterol sugar etc.  The y are excellent  I AM fit and healthy  I walk 5 ks a day on top of my10000 steps from   my  domestic work and gardening etc. 

I have a lot of time (about 18 hours a day )  and so yes I have time to read, watch videos and come on Um, as WELL as all the other things . However i am on Um less these days precisely because it is the easiest thing to reduce .

Ps my wife and I have just come back from  our second covid vaccinations, and so are now fully immunised . 

PPS I wont BE lifting her  We will work out routines which dont require a single person lift, OR get someone in when that is required,  paid for by that money from  the govt 

I don't get tired or overwhelmed 

Thoughtful planning  and use of resources makes  caring sustainable over many years.  If a person is getting tired, stressed or overwhelmed ,then something is wrong 

" old and tore up"

That's funny 

(no doubt this happens to some people ,but it doesn't describe us.)

The nurse today asked how we had both been keeping. She is an ex student of mine 

i began to say that i was fine (and feeling better than i had for 30 years) but  that my wife was suffering a bit

I was told  to be quiet  :) and that she was fine   That, while she was often in pain, it didn't bother her, and that  she was happy and content 

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Sherapy
Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

No such thing as a dependent spouse anymore  in Australia.

Plus our healthcare and other care needs are mostly paid for by the govt from taxes and levies paid while we were working 

I had about  $350000 in superannuation when I retired 

Paid off all my debts except our mortgage (which only existed because our first house was lost in the bushfire )

I have been receiving a pension from  the  2 superannuation funds i belong to, but one has almost run out and the other is quite small

For 40 years i provided all the income, but my wife and I now each get the aged pension of about  $720 a fortnight each  

If you read my posts you might have noted that the govt gives my wife $1800 every month to pay for care and aids.

This can only be used for those purposes ATM she only uses about half of it so it accumulates for later need 

I am going to ignore your gratuitous advice. I t is uninformed because again you don't  READ what i post  OR you make invalid assumptions Eg the other  day I said i  made  some vegetarian pasties 

You said this was unhealthy However the y included grated  fresh onion,  carrot, potato, turnips, swedes, and low fat cheese 

 The recipe came from  a heart foundation healthy cook book  Same for the pizzas i mentioned.  Home made with tomato paste, low fat cheese, olives,  tomato  mushrooms, pineapple,  onions and half with chicken  strips  from a fresh cooked chicken  

Ive given my daily routine a couple of times. it is balanced 

ive given my health indicators like blood pressure cholesterol sugar etc.  The y are excellent  I AM fit and healthy  I walk 5 ks a day on top of my10000 steps from   my  domestic work and gardening etc. 

I have a lot of time (about 18 hours a day )  and so yes I have time to read, watch videos and come on Um, as WELL as all the other things . However i am on Um less these days precisely because it is the easiest thing to reduce .

Ps my wife and I have just come back from  our second covid vaccinations, and so are now fully immunised . 

PPS I wont BE lifting her  We will work out routines which dont require a single person lift, OR get someone in when that is required,  paid for by that money from  the govt 

I don't get tired or overwhelmed 

Thoughtful planning  and use of resources makes  caring sustainable over many years.  If a person is getting tired, stressed or overwhelmed ,then something is wrong 

" old and tore up"

That's funny 

(no doubt this happens to some people ,but it doesn't describe us.)

The nurse today asked how we had both been keeping. She is an ex student of mine 

i began to say that i was fine (and feeling better than i had for 30 years) but  that my wife was suffering a bit

I was told  to be quiet  :) and that she was fine   That, while she was often in pain, it didn't bother her, and that  she was happy and content 

Well, some help from the gov’t  is better than none. $1800.00  a month goes fast in these situations, I am glad they have help for you.  We have long term health care plans, If need be hubby and I will be going to a very expensive care home or hiring caregivers. There is no way we would put this burden on each other or our children. My hope is I go out like my grandmothers, my heart just stops, but if not I am prepared. My grandmother taught me not to be in debt more than is warranted and invest our money. We have no aspirations to be elderly and struggling to make ends meet. We are both good with money and proactive. 

‘We have IHSS here, but to qualify one has to be destitute, you couldn’t own a home or car here and get financial aid. 

Chronic pain is no joke my heart goes out to anyone that deals with this. I don’t believe for 5 seconds your wife doesn’t get  bothered by her pain or is happy and content with it.  
 

I don’t eat pizza, as a long term vegetarian it is not quality nutrition for me. I ascribe to my body is a temple, I take good care of it. :P
 

When do you sleep if you are up for 18 hours a day? When we evaluate caregivers in the US and they are up 18 hours a day out of 24 we consider this a red flag, not getting enough sleep eventually catches up to folks usually in the way of heart attacks and chronic illnesses. I know many caregivers who have serious health issues due to being overweight and lacking sleep. I keep track of my sleep with a watch that I wear to sleep. I get 8.5 to 9 hours of sleep per night. 
 

All the best to you and your wife. 

 

 

 

Edited by Sherapy
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Mr Walker
Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Well, some help from the gov’t  is better than none. $1800.00  a month goes fast in these situations, I am glad they have help for you.  We have long term health care plans, If need be hubby and I will be going to a very expensive care home or hiring caregivers. There is no way we would put this burden on each other or our children. My hope is I go out like my grandmothers, my heart just stops, but if not I am prepared. My grandmother taught me not to be in debt more than is warranted and invest our money. We have no aspirations to be elderly and struggling to make ends meet. We are both good with money and proactive. 

‘We have IHSS here, but to qualify one has to be destitute, you couldn’t own a home or car here and get financial aid. 

Chronic pain is no joke my heart goes out to anyone that deals with this. I don’t believe for 5 seconds your wife doesn’t get  bothered by her pain or is happy and content with it.  
 

I don’t eat pizza, as a long term vegetarian it is not quality nutrition for me. I ascribe to my body is a temple, I take good care of it. :P
 

When do you sleep if you are up for 18 hours a day? When we evaluate caregivers in the US and they are up 18 hours a day out of 24 we consider this a red flag, not getting enough sleep eventually catches up to folks usually in the way of heart attacks and chronic illnesses. I know many caregivers who have serious health issues due to being overweight and lacking sleep. I keep track of my sleep with a watch that I wear to sleep. I get 8.5 to 9 hours of sleep per night. 
 

All the best to you and your wife. 

 

 

 

 

I appreciate your desires but it is not how our family works 

My parents cared for my maternal grandmother for many years while living in her home My aunts and uncles cared form my paternal  grand mother at home until she died  

My wife and i cared for her parents and  we would have cared for mine had they needed it 

Family is for us the prime unit of care and support, with govt only being accessed as needed 

Honestly and from decades of experience  caring for others is not a burden anymore than caring for your children is a burden.

its a part of  life, love, honor and  duty, and brings rewards far greater than any cost 

And you see you have just confirmed how  little you understand either of us  For my wife pain is just pain It is  a physical hurt but she does not suffer from it   or let it worry or concern her  She explained tome that she simply switches off anxiety worry  etc and while she may feel pain it has no emotional affect on her  

She is not in constant pain but she cant move without pain    

She just had a skin cancer removed from  her finger and a skin graft applied from  her arm  I sat down on the bed with her to talk to her about how concerned or worried she was, and she explained   to me what i have just written She is nor worried a t all, She simply puts that all aside  She does the same with pain 

Once the initial pain killer wore off she took no additional pain killers  other than the low dose of Panadol she takes regularly for arthritic pain 

Vegetarian  pizza is actually an excellent way to create a tasty vegetarian dish high in nutrition  Same  for vegetarian pastries,  stews curries  stir fries etc  We do eat a bit of chicken and fish but in s,mall amounts mixed in with lots of rice pasta and veges.

  I go back to my health indicators which have been consistent for many years now 

Blood pressure 120 (approx)  over 70. Bad  Cholesterol under 2.   resting heart rate very healthy  (around 155) and recovery from  exercise excellent.  Sugar just right  

These indicators demonstrate tha t whatever i am eating and whatever exercise I am doing is just right for my body 

I am also unstressed, never anxious, or worried  and never depressed.

 Ihave never had any signs of even any mild mental illness 

 

You can choose a wide range of different foods and tastes .

Pizza is an occasional meal Maybe one every month but my wife does like my home made foods because the y are more nutritious and with less salt, sugar, fat etc. than bought ones 

I sleep from  around 1 to 7 am (or 8 in the winter sometimes when the mornings are dark and wet) My wife and/ or i  sometimes stay up later with a good book  Using bed lights and tablets, either of us can read while the other sleeps  

I fall asleep every night within a minute of putting my head on the pillow but my wife has more trouble getting to sleep 

I sleep very soundly (to give an example most peole turn  over or toss while sleeping. I dont i wake up in exactly the same position  i went to sleep in, even after 6 hours sleep,  and awake untired  and ready to get out of bed.  If i have tot get up to the dogs or go to the toilet in the night, I get back into bed, and again am asleep within a minute 

My family, genetically, has never needed a lot of sleep, Unlike some  I don't get tired during the day and i don't need any extra sleep  When i was teaching, looking after my in-laws and a young teenage couple with 2 children, I got about  4 hours sleep each night for 5 years or so.

I did make up a little bit then on weekends, but it never affected my physical or intellectual capacity or function 

I've gone 72 hours without sleep while on school camps and never experienced any loss of function . Again i think that's genetic gift from  my parents'

While sleeping is not a total waste of time because i  consciously dream all night, with very entertaining dreams, it is non productive time   it is  a restful and entertaining time  and thus welcomed, but you don't get much done while asleep.  

why do you need a watch to work out how many hours you've slept?

i just check the bedside illuminated  clock  when I put my light out and again when I wake up and go back to sleep  eg last night 12.30 lights out and asleep,    4.10 up to go to the loo, 4.15 back in bed and sleep 7.30 wake up   So last night i got close to  7 hours sleep The night before I was up til 1.30 reading,  after getting back from  my games night around 11 pm,   and got up at 7.00    so i got about 5 hours  sleep .Its now 9. 45,   After a shower i am going to bed and will read or use my tablet  until about 1, then get up about 8 tomorrow. 

Some days we have commitments and have to get up earlier. Other days we don't   If we like, we can stay in bed til 10 00 am  although that is rare

 

Edited by Mr Walker

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Mr Walker
Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

 

quoted instead of edited 

Edited by Mr Walker

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Nuclear Wessel
1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

resting heart rate very healthy  (around 155)

A resting heart rate of 155 is NOT healthy, never mind "very healthy".

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third_eye
Posted (edited)

Ladies and gentlemen, it seems we have ourselves an extraterrestrial that's almost a chicken but not a cat... Further evidence of the poorly trained and educated Australian health care professionals...

Quote

Normal-Range-of-pulse-rate-in-animals.pn

~

 

Edited by third_eye
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onlookerofmayhem
31 minutes ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

A resting heart rate of 155 is NOT healthy, never mind "very healthy".

Oh come on NW. He obviously meant 55.

He's a world class athlete.

What I'd really like to know is what any of this crap has to do with the separation of church and state.

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Nuclear Wessel
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

Oh come on NW. He obviously meant 55.

He's a world class athlete.

What I'd really like to know is what any of this crap has to do with the separation of church and state.

It has nothing to do with the separation of church and state. I shouldn’t contribute to the derailment of the thread in tandem with feeding his ego, but I am just looking for a reason to argue with Walker. 

Edited by Nuclear Wessel
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third_eye

Sure as hell is more entertaining than separation of church and state.

~

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Sherapy
1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

 

I appreciate your desires but it is not how our family works 

My parents cared for my maternal grandmother for many years while living in her home My aunts and uncles cared form my paternal  grand mother at home until she died  

My wife and i cared for her parents and  we would have cared for mine had they needed it 

Family is for us the prime unit of care and support, with govt only being accessed as needed 

Honestly and from decades of experience  caring for others is not a burden anymore than caring for your children is a burden.

its a part of  life, love, honor and  duty, and brings rewards far greater than any cost 

And you see you have just confirmed how  little you understand either of us  For my wife pain is just pain It is  a physical hurt but she does not suffer from it   or let it worry or concern her  She explained tome that she simply switches off anxiety worry  etc and while she may feel pain it has no emotional affect on her  

She is not in constant pain but she cant move without pain    

She just had a skin cancer removed from  her finger and a skin graft applied from  her arm  I sat down on the bed with her to talk to her about how concerned or worried she was, and she explained   to me what i have just written She is nor worried a t all, She simply puts that all aside  She does the same with pain 

Once the initial pain killer wore off she took no additional pain killers  other than the low dose of Panadol she takes regularly for arthritic pain 

Vegetarian  pizza is actually an excellent way to create a tasty vegetarian dish high in nutrition  Same  for vegetarian pastries,  stews curries  stir fries etc  We do eat a bit of chicken and fish but in s,mall amounts mixed in with lots of rice pasta and veges.

  I go back to my health indicators which have been consistent for many years now 

Blood pressure 120 (approx)  over 70. Bad  Cholesterol under 2.   resting heart rate very healthy  (around 155) and recovery from  exercise excellent.  Sugar just right  

These indicators demonstrate tha t whatever i am eating and whatever exercise I am doing is just right for my body 

I am also unstressed, never anxious, or worried  and never depressed.

 Ihave never had any signs of even any mild mental illness 

 

You can choose a wide range of different foods and tastes .

Pizza is an occasional meal Maybe one every month but my wife does like my home made foods because the y are more nutritious and with less salt, sugar, fat etc. than bought ones 

I sleep from  around 1 to 7 am (or 8 in the winter sometimes when the mornings are dark and wet) My wife and/ or i  sometimes stay up later with a good book  Using bed lights and tablets, either of us can read while the other sleeps  

I fall asleep every night within a minute of putting my head on the pillow but my wife has more trouble getting to sleep 

I sleep very soundly (to give an example most peole turn  over or toss while sleeping. I dont i wake up in exactly the same position  i went to sleep in, even after 6 hours sleep,  and awake untired  and ready to get out of bed.  If i have tot get up to the dogs or go to the toilet in the night, I get back into bed, and again am asleep within a minute 

My family, genetically, has never needed a lot of sleep, Unlike some  I don't get tired during the day and i don't need any extra sleep  When i was teaching, looking after my in-laws and a young teenage couple with 2 children, I got about  4 hours sleep each night for 5 years or so.

I did make up a little bit then on weekends, but it never affected my physical or intellectual capacity or function 

I've gone 72 hours without sleep while on school camps and never experienced any loss of function . Again i think that's genetic gift from  my parents'

While sleeping is not a total waste of time because i  consciously dream all night, with very entertaining dreams, it is non productive time   it is  a restful and entertaining time  and thus welcomed, but you don't get much done while asleep.  

why do you need a watch to work out how many hours you've slept?

i just check the bedside illuminated  clock  when I put my light out and again when I wake up and go back to sleep  eg last night 12.30 lights out and asleep,    4.10 up to go to the loo, 4.15 back in bed and sleep 7.30 wake up   So last night i got close to  7 hours sleep The night before I was up til 1.30 reading,  after getting back from  my games night around 11 pm,   and got up at 7.00    so i got about 5 hours  sleep .Its now 9. 45,   After a shower i am going to bed and will read or use my tablet  until about 1, then get up about 8 tomorrow. 

Some days we have commitments and have to get up earlier. Other days we don't   If we like, we can stay in bed til 10 00 am  although that is rare

 

I think you made an error on your resting heart rate 155 wouldn’t be “very healthy.” 
 

The watch I use to track my sleep tells me how long I am in each cycle. The watch is accurate, not an estimation. My body needs the sleep to maintain optimal health, when I started on my journey as a caregiver this is what my doctor recommended. 
 

As people get older and have health issues of their own it is a good thing to have options, having the finances to make these choices helps immensely, yet, not everyone prepares for this time, quality of care and life matters, I think a person has the right to live their best live under these circumstances, whether they choose to be at home or somewhere else.

‘ Chronic pain is not fun to live with, regardless of whether one complains about it or not. Not being able to move without pain seriously limits one on many levels. Your wife doesn’t leave the house, right? It isn’t unusual for resentment to build towards the one who can leave whenever they want. Just be aware. 

How long have you been taking care of your wife now? 

I don’t eat processed foods or pizza, for the reason your wife states, it is just better for you to cook. We love to cook, shop for our foods etc., it is fun.

Cutting corners on good nutrition and sleep and ones self care are early signs of stress, being to busy to take care of oneself is a red flag. Choosing to stay up late to read instead of sleep doesn’t make sense if you have so much free time, 18 hrs according to you. MW, everyone has stressors, it is that you know what they are that matters. Regardless, just my two cents. 

 

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quiXilver

Should probably rename this to, Separation of Topic and Walker?

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