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Heaven and Hell


Guyver
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9 hours ago, Guyver said:

No, I was trying to go modern with it.  I saw it as a place that glows and shines and people could think what they wish and it would happen.

One can put any fling onto an ancient concept...it is still an ancient concept.  One that is easily understood to be fantasy by the realization that no one could have ever been to ither place without dying...and dead men tell no tales.  :)

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1180943374_rexcartoon.jpg.474bd7e21b7b9ab6ed7e8bbb07a16c45.jpg

The cartoon ran in New Yorker and was created by Charles Barsotti (1933-2014).

TheBark.com interviewed Barsotti in 2007 upon the publication of a collection of his dog cartoons entitled They Moved My Bowl... [and] asked him about the book’s dedication “To the memory of Jiggs, the world’s greatest dog.”

The cartoonist replied, “Any kid who doesn’t think his dog is the world’s greatest dog is weird. Jiggs was part Dachshund, part mystery meatloaf. Jiggs was run over and killed when I was 10. In my book, there’s a cartoon with St. Peter and a dog named Rex who is a stand-in for Jiggs.”

https://thebark.com/content/cartoonist-charles-barsotti-drew-his-own-ending

 

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13 hours ago, joc said:

One can put any fling onto an ancient concept...it is still an ancient concept.  One that is easily understood to be fantasy by the realization that no one could have ever been to ither place without dying...and dead men tell no tales.  :)

Colloquially true….dead men tell no tales.  Yet, from a scientific and archaeological perspective they do tell tales.  And people tell tales.  Some people who have died clinically, legally, etc…and they have come back with stories of an afterlife. Since not all stories are false, it could be.

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Even if that afterlife is a product of the mind and short lived, there’s the notion one could live another lifetime in a dying breath.  I’m not saying I believe it or disbelieve it, but I consider it possible.

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3 minutes ago, Guyver said:

I’m not saying I believe it or disbelieve it, but I consider it possible.

to even consider this complete & utter BS as a possibility means deep down you do believe, IMO... just be honest

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1 minute ago, Dejarma said:

to even consider this complete & utter BS as a possibility means deep down you do believe, IMO... just be honest

I do believe something, I admit it.  I just don’t know what it is I believe in.

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11 minutes ago, Guyver said:

How do you know?

what- 100% sure do you mean? ==== I don't.. I go by nothing more than life experience & how I perceive stuff. One comes to a personal conclusion. What else is there? 

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1 hour ago, Dejarma said:

what- 100% sure do you mean? ==== I don't.. I go by nothing more than life experience & how I perceive stuff. One comes to a personal conclusion. What else is there? 

Nothing.  You are right.

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So, that’s another interesting point about this thread, why does it have to be just heaven and hell?  Why couldn’t there be a place in between?  I don’t have any answers, I’m just asking questions .  I think there is something strange about our existence. 

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4 minutes ago, Guyver said:

So, that’s another interesting point about this thread, why does it have to be just heaven and hell?  Why couldn’t there be a place in between?  I don’t have any answers, I’m just asking questions .  I think there is something strange about our existence. 

That's purgatory isn't it?

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The early posts here considered the possibility that heaven might become boring. My thought here is that if heaven exists as a spiritual reward, then by definition it could never become boring. I don't have full faith that heaven is a place where righteous souls go when people die, but as a theoretical exercise, let's assume that it does. My interpretation is that it's a place of eternal comfort, and satisfaction. Whatever makes you happy, you can find. Whatever makes you unhappy or less than totally satisfied doesn't exist. If you find a heavy rush of adrenaline with your friends at your side to be the best thing ever, then your heaven will accommodate that. If you just want to lie in bed and read for all eternity, they've got that, too.

Basically, my interpretation of the idea of heaven is that it is tailored to your happiness. The inverse is true for hell--whatever scares you, or disgusts you, or humiliates you, it's going to be there.

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23 hours ago, Guyver said:

I do believe something, I admit it.  I just don’t know what it is I believe in.

I am not being petty with you Guyver...truly I am not.  So, let me just say something about belief in general...because this is near and dear to my own philosophy of life.  Do we believe that water freezes at 32 degrees?  No.  It does.  No belief required.  Do we believe that the Earth is spherical in shape and rotates every 24 hours and orbits the Sun every 365 days? No.  It does.  No belief is required.  So...what is it really then that we believe?  We believe things...or I should say that Belief itself has a requirement.  In order for us to believe a thing...the thing has to have no valid proof to its existence.  Do we believe in ghosts?  Some people do...but there is no valid proof for their existence.  Same with Aliens and such.  And...it is the same with God...and Heaven and Hell.   There is no valid proof nor can there be.  So, believe what you wish.  Whatever you believe though, know that there is no valid proof for it.  And in my mind...no proof means...uh...no!     But that's just me my friend.  However, if you don't know what you believe...then a great place to start is with what you know to be true.  In the context of God...Virgins don't have babies.  People who have been dead....truly dead...for several days do not come back to life.  It is impossible for a human being of any size to walk on water.  These are facts.  You are free and welcome to believe otherwise...but...then again...these things do not require belief.  There is valid proof.   We also know that you can take a tab of LSD and have fantastical thoughts, hallucinations, and experience many things liken unto what NDE has brought to the table.  So NDE is not valid proof for an afterlife. 

Believe what you want.  But know this...belief...any belief...political belief, religious belief, societal belief...has no relevance to the truth.  Those things that are true have the validity of proof attached to them.  :)

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21 hours ago, psyche101 said:

That's purgatory isn't it?

Yes.  According to my understanding of it, it is a doctrine among Catholic Christians that states a person can live in a place not heaven, not hell….but a waiting place.  They believe another person or Saint can pray them out of this place and deliver them to heaven, or they remain there until the Great Judgement.

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PS.  I think a person in pergatory must do penance, if I remember correctly.

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5 hours ago, joc said:

I am not being petty with you Guyver...truly I am not.  So, let me just say something about belief in general...because this is near and dear to my own philosophy of life.  Do we believe that water freezes at 32 degrees?  No.  It does.  No belief required.  Do we believe that the Earth is spherical in shape and rotates every 24 hours and orbits the Sun every 365 days? No.  It does.  No belief is required.  So...what is it really then that we believe?  We believe things...or I should say that Belief itself has a requirement.  In order for us to believe a thing...the thing has to have no valid proof to its existence.  Do we believe in ghosts?  Some people do...but there is no valid proof for their existence.  Same with Aliens and such.  And...it is the same with God...and Heaven and Hell.   There is no valid proof nor can there be.  So, believe what you wish.  Whatever you believe though, know that there is no valid proof for it.  And in my mind...no proof means...uh...no!     But that's just me my friend.  However, if you don't know what you believe...then a great place to start is with what you know to be true.  In the context of God...Virgins don't have babies.  People who have been dead....truly dead...for several days do not come back to life.  It is impossible for a human being of any size to walk on water.  These are facts.  You are free and welcome to believe otherwise...but...then again...these things do not require belief.  There is valid proof.   We also know that you can take a tab of LSD and have fantastical thoughts, hallucinations, and experience many things liken unto what NDE has brought to the table.  So NDE is not valid proof for an afterlife. 

Believe what you want.  But know this...belief...any belief...political belief, religious belief, societal belief...has no relevance to the truth.  Those things that are true have the validity of proof attached to them.  :)

Well said.

 However, unless you have personal experience with something like water freezing a t a certain temp., you also only have faith/ belief (in the words of others) that it does so' 

Lack of proof is NOT proof of lack 

It simply means that, as yet, something remains unproven. Not that it does not exist, or is not true 

No one knows yet if there is/was life on mars 

You can believe what you want to   but no proof of life on mars, YET, doesn't mean there is /was none

Finally there are probably  a number of virgins who  have conceived using IVF 

We are close to being able to  ensure life after death; and even i have "walked on water " 

Once we learn how to manipulate matter then  we will be able to walk on water in liquid form and walk through walls  and turn 5 loaves and 2 fish into enough food to feed a multitude 

 

Think of god as a n example of a technologically  advanced life form and its suddenly possible that it could do all those things and more 

Not saying i believe in the biblical miracles but I can see how the y could be done using technology not much more advanced than our own  

Beliefs sometimes have relevance to the truth 

Some beliefs turn out to be true. Others do not 

 

 

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13 hours ago, Guyver said:

Well said Joc.  So, truth is the highest standard.

Truth is the only standard.  I am not talking about philosophical truths, but the physical state of the universe.  The laws of physics...the truth of what can and cannot happen in our universe.  A virgin cannot have a baby.  Because we all know how babies are made.  No woman who has never had sexual contact with a male human can become pregnant...not without the intervention of technological advancements, invitro fertilization et al.  That's the truth.  So, that part of the story of Jesus is not true.  It's false.  It's okay to believe it's true...but that doesn't make it true.  It isn't.  

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On 7/29/2021 at 5:19 PM, Guyver said:

Is there any such thing as heaven?  What is it?  Is it real?  As I was attempting to contemplate heaven today, it occurred to me that it is hard to imagine.  And, I wonder if heaven could even be understood without hell?  Or more specifically, if heaven is a place of pleasure as some people believe, how could pleasure be understood without its opposite?  
 

PS.  I will post two contrasting songs for your listening pleasure.

According to the o.t., Heaven is the celestial bodies, etc. in space.  Don't overthink the narcissistic arrogance.

Matthew+23-9+You+Have+But+One+Father+And

Lords_prayer_print_800.jpg

Unique_Moment_with_the_Sun_and_Christ_th

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Hmm.   Not every thing can be proven.  And that's the truth.    ^_^?

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On 7/29/2021 at 9:35 PM, onlookerofmayhem said:

 

I don’t think I had ever heard this number before.  I liked it.  So, it was Ronnie James Dio instead of Ozzy singing it.  I haven’t had time to digest the lyrics….but….yeah.  Nice one.

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On 8/1/2021 at 12:49 PM, lightly said:

Hmm.   Not every thing can be proven.  And that's the truth.    ^_^?

Excellent question and statement simultaneously.

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