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Heaven and Hell


Guyver
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In my mind, it doesn’t seem like humans are particularly suited for survival in this environment in comparison with many organisms.  Just saying.

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9 hours ago, third_eye said:

What we have here is a Tea Party... 

~

Did someone say tea party?

 

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That is really good.  It’s like Jim Morrison version 2.0. It actually even strikes me as a slight improvement if I may say so.

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Doing the Jimmy Page Les Paul plus violin bow technique.  Nice tip of the hat.  Brilliant.

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My sister in law is an educated individual.  She graduated from the same university as I did.  She holds a high paying  and professional position in real life.  Yet, she believes we are in “Ezekiel 38” and the rapture is about to happen.  Sigh.  Do you have any idea how long Christians have been thinking that?  1735 ish in America alone, if memory serves.  It ain’t happening.  The Bible is false because it failed in prophecy.

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But, if her beliefs help her, then I guess that is good.  I’m just beginning to wonder about that.  How can believing that God is someone who wishes a sacrifice from the blood of a goat something that is helpful?  I get that she probably just forgets that part, but it’s real.  One has to read the Bible to understand it, but yes, goat and bull sacrifice was pleasing to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.  Well, that’s bull**** but they forget that part.  Now we are in the rapture?  No, we are not, and do you know why?

IBecause the Bible is where the idea of the rapture occurs, and guess what?  According to the Bible, without a Jewish Temple in Jerusalem sacrificing animals on a daily basis, there is no anti-Christ, and thus, no second coming and no rapture.

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Study it out for yourself, and see if what I’m saying is true.  You will find that I am correct but I doubt you will thank me.  People who think the rapture is about to occur are delusional and that is sad.

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On 7/29/2021 at 8:19 PM, Guyver said:

Is there any such thing as heaven?  What is it?  Is it real?  As I was attempting to contemplate heaven today, it occurred to me that it is hard to imagine.  And, I wonder if heaven could even be understood without hell?  Or more specifically, if heaven is a place of pleasure as some people believe, how could pleasure be understood without its opposite?  
 

PS.  I will post two contrasting songs for your listening pleasure.

We could see it as metaphorical. Heaven being order and Hell being chaos. Even in my psychological terms/views(?) Heaven is the super ego and hell is the id. We are right in the middle. I don't know of anyone who knows pleasure without first having known suffering. 

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12 hours ago, Guyver said:

But, if her beliefs help her, then I guess that is good.  I’m just beginning to wonder about that.  How can believing that God is someone who wishes a sacrifice from the blood of a goat something that is helpful?  I get that she probably just forgets that part, but it’s real.  One has to read the Bible to understand it, but yes, goat and bull sacrifice was pleasing to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.  Well, that’s bull**** but they forget that part.  Now we are in the rapture?  No, we are not, and do you know why?

IBecause the Bible is where the idea of the rapture occurs, and guess what?  According to the Bible, without a Jewish Temple in Jerusalem sacrificing animals on a daily basis, there is no anti-Christ, and thus, no second coming and no rapture.

This is an interesting point, it is a great question how is believing in the Rapture helping her? 

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4 hours ago, XenoFish said:

We could see it as metaphorical. Heaven being order and Hell being chaos. Even in my psychological terms/views(?) Heaven is the super ego and hell is the id. We are right in the middle. I don't know of anyone who knows pleasure without first having known suffering. 

The gods have never bothered much about judging the souls of the dead, and so people only go to hell if that’s where they believe, in their deepest heart, that they deserve to go. Which they won’t do if they don’t know about it. This explains why it is important to shoot missionaries on sight. 

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1 hour ago, Sherapy said:

This is an interesting point, it is a great question how is believing in the Rapture helping her? 

I don’t know.  Maybe it’s because in the minds of Christians this world is so wicked that the rapture saves them from it, or, they may actually believe in the antichrist and devil coming forth to torture and kill wicked humanity and they see this as about to occur.  They use a line of thinking called “signs of the times.”  Problem is, they seem to forget the biggest sign - a Jewish temple in Jerusalem where animals are being sacrifice.  There is no such place at this time and there hasn’t been for two thousand years.

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1 hour ago, Abramelin said:

The gods have never bothered much about judging the souls of the dead, and so people only go to hell if that’s where they believe, in their deepest heart, that they deserve to go. Which they won’t do if they don’t know about it. This explains why it is important to shoot missionaries on sight. 

Shooting them would be a tad extreme I would think….but I’m certain you were joking so all good. Maybe we should dissuade them by shouting out, “A loving God wouldn’t roast humans in hell so stop lying!!!!”

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1 minute ago, Guyver said:

Shooting them would be a tad extreme I would think….but I’m certain you were joking so all good. Maybe we should dissuade them by shouting out, “A loving God wouldn’t roast humans in hell so stop lying!!!!”

It may look a tad extreme, but Papuans went beyond that: they ate them.

Maybe the missionaries they 'consumed' quoted a bit to much from the Old Testament. The OT Joe Hova was a bit too nasty according to their taste.

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4 minutes ago, Guyver said:

I don’t know.  Maybe it’s because in the minds of Christians this world is so wicked that the rapture saves them from it, or, they may actually believe in the antichrist and devil coming forth to torture and kill wicked humanity and they see this as about to occur.  They use a line of thinking called “signs of the times.”  Problem is, they seem to forget the biggest sign - a Jewish temple in Jerusalem where animals are being sacrifice.  There is no such place at this time and there hasn’t been for two thousand years.

It does sound like a way to cope with the elements she has no control over. Often folks project themselves into their constructs, In my work as a caregiver, I see belief systems up close and personal and I do find it interesting how one applies their belief system and I do find it useful to learn about and work within what they believe. In my case, getting people to self care for their own sake well let’s just say one has to get creative, often their coping frame is all they have time for and even if it isn’t useful clinging to it is far less scary then letting it go. 

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3 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

It may look a tad extreme, but Papuans went beyond that: they ate them.

Maybe the missionaries they 'consumed' quoted a bit to much from the Old Testament. The OT Joe Hova was a bit too nasty according to their taste.

It's interesting ,I think, that usually cannibals believe they 'gain'someone's 'power' by eating them?   I'm always astonished by the similarity in thinking in the Catholic practice of eating the body,and drinking the blood of Christ..to 'take on' Christlike attributes?

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13 minutes ago, lightly said:

It's interesting ,I think, that usually cannibals believe they 'gain'someone's 'power' by eating them?   I'm always astonished by the similarity in thinking in the Catholic practice of eating the body,and drinking the blood of Christ..to 'take on' Christlike attributes?

And, in Catholicism, there wasn’t any room for questioning, one was to obey, period. All forms of punishment were geared to total obedience for fear of…and no other suggestions or constructs could be sought. Over time this leads to a righteousness that creates a prison for the person. Getting out of this mindset by being exposed to other perspectives is hard work and brutal as Guyver can attest too. These days it is a lot less restrictive. A good friend of mine who was Mormon was not allowed to have non Mormon friends and for along time I was a friend she had in secret. Over the span of our friendship just talking she told me she had no idea there were so many other ways to see things, she is no longer Mormon and her adult kids followed suit. Just being exposed to other ideas they found better paths.

Edited by Sherapy
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8 minutes ago, lightly said:

It's interesting ,I think, that usually cannibals believe they 'gain'someone's 'power' by eating them?   I'm always astonished by the similarity in thinking in the Catholic practice of eating the body,and drinking the blood of Christ..to 'take on' Christlike attributes?

Yes, they may have thought that by eating these missionaries, they would gain the power of this unknown angry, vindictive, genocidal, child-murdering and jealous god.

And most certainly when they heard about The Last Supper.

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On 8/9/2021 at 3:55 AM, lightly said:

It's interesting ,I think, that usually cannibals believe they 'gain'someone's 'power' by eating them?   I'm always astonished by the similarity in thinking in the Catholic practice of eating the body,and drinking the blood of Christ..to 'take on' Christlike attributes?

They are more likely to get Kuru

Kuru is a unanimously fatal, transmissible spongiform encephalopathy; it is a prion-based disease similar to BSE (bovine spongiform ..

 

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/311277#The-health-implications-of-eating-colleagues

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That was interesting Mr. W.   .. especially the Asymptomatic incubation period usually lasting 5 to 20 years..and up to 50 years !

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On August 8, 2021 at 2:38 PM, Sherapy said:

And, in Catholicism, there wasn’t any room for questioning, one was to obey, period. All forms of punishment were geared to total obedience for fear of…and no other suggestions or constructs could be sought. Over time this leads to a righteousness that creates a prison for the person. Getting out of this mindset by being exposed to other perspectives is hard work and brutal as Guyver can attest too. These days it is a lot less restrictive. A good friend of mine who was Mormon was not allowed to have non Mormon friends and for along time I was a friend she had in secret. Over the span of our friendship just talking she told me she had no idea there were so many other ways to see things, she is no longer Mormon and her adult kids followed suit. Just being exposed to other ideas they found better paths.

My dad spent many years of his youth in a Catholic orphanage.  He never talked much about his faith..until near his 'end' in a medical care facility where he spent the last 10 years of his life..he suddenly told me that ,at work in the factory, he would repeat a certain number of Hail Marys ..at the conclusion of which, he would know that the GIGANTIC machine he was 'greasing' was Full !!  Then he would send it on it's way,.and repeat the process for hours on end !     I was really surprised by him telling me that.  !     Mom was the daughter of a Methodist minister and made no secret of her faith..she often sang Hymns as she did housework .       She had a beautiful,powerful,wonderful voice. :wub:.  She would also bust loose with a Patsy Cline or something!

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On August 8, 2021 at 8:02 AM, XenoFish said:

We could see it as metaphorical. Heaven being order and Hell being chaos. Even in my psychological terms/views(?) Heaven is the super ego and hell is the id. We are right in the middle. I don't know of anyone who knows pleasure without first having known suffering. 

   When I first read that^  I immediately thought of ME :P  and my childhood.  I don't remember any suffering at all.  Maybe some minor social school kid crap..but otherwise I was blissfully unaware of even the concept of suffering. I remember a great sense of peace ,and joy even.. I was perfectly happy just to be alive and experiencing life and the natural world around me.  I think I was lucky to spend so much time alone :lol:       I suppose I learned to suffer a little as I got older.. and i can see that I brought most of it on myself. ! 

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43 minutes ago, lightly said:

   When I first read that^  I immediately thought of ME :P  and my childhood.  I don't remember any suffering at all.  Maybe some minor social school kid crap..but otherwise I was blissfully unaware of even the concept of suffering. I remember a great sense of peace ,and joy even.. I was perfectly happy just to be alive and experiencing life and the natural world around me.  I think I was lucky to spend so much time alone :lol:       I suppose I learned to suffer a little as I got older.. and i can see that I brought most of it on myself. ! 

Must've been nice. All I knew growing up was disdain, hate, and animosity,  

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3 hours ago, lightly said:

   When I first read that^  I immediately thought of ME :P  and my childhood.  I don't remember any suffering at all.  Maybe some minor social school kid crap..but otherwise I was blissfully unaware of even the concept of suffering. I remember a great sense of peace ,and joy even.. I was perfectly happy just to be alive and experiencing life and the natural world around me.  I think I was lucky to spend so much time alone :lol:       I suppose I learned to suffer a little as I got older.. and i can see that I brought most of it on myself. ! 

I am pleased to hear you had such a positive experience in your childhood, and that you had such joy. For children growing up with mitigating circumstances such as poverty or abuse it becomes about survival and the anxiety of survival mode on a young child can make for a rough journey ahead. A lot of time and work goes into working through it. I can tell you I am living proof of what is possible with great examples such as my grandparents and my grandmothers good sense to encourage therapy, she was a big proponent of getting help. 
 

What is really cool is my middle son has chosen  a path of helping very tragic cases of childhood abuse and because of my journey has the compassion and deep understanding to help. He knows what helps and what doesn’t and we ended the cycle of abuse in my family line. 
 

Things happen in life accidents happen, loved ones die, and folks get sick something they didn’t plan for everyone has suffered whether they admit it or not and not all suffering is of our own doing. Sometimes, some experiences are just hard no matter what one does. One just has to push through, put one foot in front of the other. 
 

I work for a woman who has an amazing life by anyone’s standards wonderful children, millions, many homes,  a devoted loving husband of 60 years this couple are still madly in love, then she got Parkinson’s and all the joy and love is still there and in spite of the best caregivers and devoted spouse great kids she misses who she once was, she is grieving the loss of herself and it has been a hard road for her and there are those that think cuz she has so much that she shouldn’t complain, I disagree it doesn’t matter what she has in money or love she is human and has the right to express her vulnerabilities and deserves compassion and empathy. 

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3 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Must've been nice. All I knew growing up was disdain, hate, and animosity,  

I'm sincerely sorry you had such a rough childhood X.   I was just very lucky.  I didn't have to overcome a rough start..like so many do.     From what I can tell, you have turned into a good man.   

    ..and Thanks to you Sherapy.    I admire you too ... and always learn from you.  

     

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31 minutes ago, lightly said:

I'm sincerely sorry you had such a rough childhood X.   I was just very lucky.  I didn't have to overcome a rough start..like so many do.     From what I can tell, you have turned into a good man.   

    ..and Thanks to you Sherapy.    I admire you too ... and always learn from you.  

     

Or you just had good parents and there are great parents. You do come off as a sweet man who is kind and empathetic and caring.  I am really pleased that how a child is raised mattered in your case and for all those pioneering parents that had the sense to err on-the side of compassion. For the Xeno’s and Sheri’s of the world we actually have had to forgive and pick ourselves up by the boot straps and find a way to help ourselves and in my case my younger sisters, often alone, I have nothing but major respect for Xeno, he is one brave dude, I know first hand how much work it is to work through an awful childhood. 
 

I think with better parenting models it could go along way in creating a kinder humanity and less kids that are harmed. At least this is my hope. 

 

 

Edited by Sherapy
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