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The Silver Shroud

Battles raging in Afghanistan

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The Silver Shroud
Posted (edited)

Afghanistan: Street fighting rages as Taliban attack key city

Ferocious fighting is taking place in a major Afghan city, amid fears it could be the first provincial capital to fall to the Taliban.

Lashkar Gah in southern Helmand province is under heavy assault from the militants, despite persistent US and Afghan air strikes.

The Taliban are said to have seized a TV station. Thousands of people fleeing rural areas took shelter in buildings.

"There is fighting all around," a doctor told the BBC from his hospital.

Hundreds of Afghan reinforcements have been deployed to battle the militants. The Taliban have made rapid advances in recent months as US forces have withdrawn after 20 years of military operations in the country.

Afghanistan: Street fighting rages as Taliban attack key city - BBC News

Edited by Ted E Hughes
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susieice
Posted (edited)

You can't really change someone and we can't sit there forever trying.  It's sad but it's the way of it. 20 years is more than enough to try.

Edited by susieice
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Manwon Lender
1 minute ago, Orphalesion said:

Okay, I'm not an expert on that part of the world.
But man, those 20 years really accomplished nothing at all, eh? :hmm:

You may not be an expert, but you certainly are spot on in your comments. The problem with the US Mission to Afghanistan is that it appears that our interventionism, has failed again. America has been there too long and to many American Soldiers have give their lives, Limbs, and their sanity for nothing gained except Osama Bin Ladens ultimate death years later.  I really hope that somehow, and someway, my Nations leaders realize unless they are going into any country with a clear intention to end the conflict quickly  we should not go at all. 

After the World Trade Center was attacked and destroyed in 2001, the invasion of Afghanistan was already in the planning stages because of intelligence because Osama Bin laden was suspected. after some controversy concerning the dates of videos that were taken when Al Jazeera interviewed him it was discovered he had actually planned and sent individuals to carry out the attack. If we had invaded and then once it was discovered he had escaped into Pakistan, we should have left that crazy war, and if we had done so the deaths of so many soldiers would have been avoided.

However, interventionism and Nation building has been a failed foreign policy since the end of WWII and whether Republicans or Democrats were in the White House this policy continued to this present day. I hope somehow, our Government finally can see error of their ways, and actions are taken to prevent it from occurring in the future.

JIMO

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Manwon Lender
14 minutes ago, susieice said:

You can't really change someone and we can't sit there forever trying.  It's sad but it's the way of it. 20 years is more than enough to try.

Your right Susieice, its impossible to win the hearts and minds of people who view you as an invader and nothing more. :( 

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third_eye

Contrary to popular belief, the Taliban isn't all illiterate uneducated goat herders totally ignorant of global affairs...

 

Quote

 

[00.18:59]

~

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Orphalesion
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Manwon Lender said:

You may not be an expert, but you certainly are spot on in your comments. The problem with the US Mission to Afghanistan is that it appears that our interventionism, has failed again. America has been there too long and to many American Soldiers have give their lives, Limbs, and their sanity for nothing gained except Osama Bin Ladens ultimate death years later.  I really hope that somehow, and someway, my Nations leaders realize unless they are going into any country with a clear intention to end the conflict quickly  we should not go at all. 

After the World Trade Center was attacked and destroyed in 2001, the invasion of Afghanistan was already in the planning stages because of intelligence because Osama Bin laden was suspected. after some controversy concerning the dates of videos that were taken when Al Jazeera interviewed him it was discovered he had actually planned and sent individuals to carry out the attack. If we had invaded and then once it was discovered he had escaped into Pakistan, we should have left that crazy war, and if we had done so the deaths of so many soldiers would have been avoided.

However, interventionism and Nation building has been a failed foreign policy since the end of WWII and whether Republicans or Democrats were in the White House this policy continued to this present day. I hope somehow, our Government finally can see error of their ways, and actions are taken to prevent it from occurring in the future.

JIMO

I wish I was spot on with something happier.
I feel sorry for the people of Afghanistan, but as you say; the American people can't be expected to shepherd a foreign nation indefinitely and send troop after troop of their young people to fight in a largely pointless war.

It seems clear that what happened after World War II in Germany/Austria, Italy and Japan with American help was just a very unique situation. I think two factors were that, in comparison to the chaos in Afghanistan the reign of fascism in those four countries was relatively brief (just over 12 years in Germany) and they also possessed largely literate, educated populations and both an infra-structure and pre-war democratic systems that were easily repaired (I also suspect that the cultural connection between America and those European nations and shared religion helped quite a bit, and of course the mutual interest on all sides to be allies against the Soviet Union). And even so, it was quite a miracle that it worked so well.

Afghanistan on the other hand has been in a state of war since (at least)the 80s, and even before that the bulk of the population, especially outside the big cities was uneducated, tribal and traditionalist, and such a population is easy to radicalise by the wrong people. From what I've read, those famous photos of female students in Kabul walking around in mini skirts and bobbed hair form the 1970s were largely the city dwelling elite, supported by the King who wanted foreign investors and tourists(a similar situation to Iran/Persia under the Shah). And even in those photos you can often see tribal people wearingturbans and burqas in the background.
And even though, from what I've read, there has been progress in the 20 years of Western activity in Afghanistan (the literacy among young people sky-rocketed, for example) I can imagine it's not as easy to just yank a country like that into the 21st century.

Edited by Orphalesion
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Manwon Lender
45 minutes ago, third_eye said:

Contrary to popular belief, the Taliban isn't all illiterate uneducated goat herders totally ignorant of global affairs...

 

[00.18:59]

~

Well, unfortchanately more than 80%of the population is not what you described. I was there during the invasion and until almost the end of the Battle of Tora Bora. While the average Afghani is not highly educated, they are still wonderful people who only want the same freedom and rights  Americans have. They have a strong traditional bond with a great cultural background. Unfortunately, again the average Afghani really has no control over their lives but I learned from working with my interpreters they loath the Taliban. So I find it really sad that they are again being forced under the boot of an Government that is run by Religious Clergy and the very strict Islamic law known as Shari'a Law.

JIMO

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Manwon Lender
22 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

I wish I was spot on with something happier.
I feel sorry for the people of Afghanistan, but as you say; the American people can't be expected to shepherd a foreign nation indefinitely and send troop after troop of their young people to fight in a largely pointless war.

It seems clear that what happened after World War II in Germany/Austria, Italy and Japan with American help was just a very unique situation. I think two factors were that, in comparison to the chaos in Afghanistan the reign of fascism in those four countries was relatively brief (just over 12 years in Germany) and they also possessed largely literate, educated populations and both an infra-structure and pre-war democratic systems that were easily repaired (I also suspect that the cultural connection between America and those European nations and shared religion helped quite a bit, and of course the mutual interest on all sides to be allies against the Soviet Union). And even so, it was quite a miracle that it worked so well.

Afghanistan on the other hand has been in a state of war since (at least)the 80s, and even before that the bulk of the population, especially outside the big cities was uneducated, tribal and traditionalist, and such a population is easy to radicalise by the wrong people. From what I've read, those famous photos of female students in Kabul walking around in mini skirts and bobbed hair form the 1970s were largely the city dwelling elite, supported by the King who wanted foreign investors and tourists(a similar situation to Iran/Persia under the Shah). And even in those photos you can often see tribal people wearingturbans and burqas in the background.
And even though, from what I've read, there has been progress in the 20 years of Western activity in Afghanistan (the literacy among young people sky-rocketed, for example) I can imagine it's not as easy to just yank a country like that into the 21st century.

I will stay with my first statement, because yet again your spot on., except for the fact of a state of war. Because technically they have been at war where civil or other for 1000 plus years. in 1996 the Taliban raised it ugly head and over through the existing Government. They practice the most extreme Islamic religious law, which is known as Shari'a Law. Females will no longer be allowed to go to school, again they will become property, they will no longer be able to drive, or participate in any political or legal issues. Effectively, Afghanistan will be plunged back into the dark ages

JIMO

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third_eye
1 hour ago, Manwon Lender said:

Well, unfortchanately more than 80%of the population is not what you described.

Well... Technically speaking, 80% isn't the Taliban either... 

~

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Manwon Lender
25 minutes ago, third_eye said:

Well... Technically speaking, 80% isn't the Taliban either... 

~

Yes Sir, you are correct, the Taliban is nothing but a ruling religious body,that contols everything within Afghanistan. According to this link there are approximately 60,000 Taliban as of 2014? and Afghanistan has a total population of approximately 38.94 Million Citizens. 

number of Taliban. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban 

Total population  https://www.google.com/search?q=total+population+of+afghanistan&rlz=1C9BKJA_enKR925KR925&hl=en-US&ei=6R0JYae3A86UmAXt5qrIDg&oq=total+population+of+afgahnistan&gs_lcp=ChNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwEAEYADIECAAQDTIICAAQCBANEB4yBwghEAoQoAE6BAgAEEc6BAgAEEM6BQgAEIAEOgYIABAWEB46BQghEKABOgQIABAKOggIIRAWEB0QHlD8FliFYGD5iQFoAHABeACAAe4BiAHPFZIBBjAuMTQuMpgBAKABAcgBCMABAQ&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp

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Buzz_Light_Year

Afghanistan the "Graveyard of Empires"

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The Silver Shroud
Posted (edited)

Afghanistan war: Bodies on the streets as fighting traps Lashkar Gah residents

"The Taliban will have no mercy on us and the government won't stop the bombing."

The resident of Lashkar Gah in southern Afghanistan is one of thousands trapped or fleeing for their lives as fighting for control of the city rages between militants and government forces.

The BBC is not naming some interviewees in this article for security reasons.

"There are corpses on the roads. We do not know if they are civilians or the Taliban," the man told the BBC Afghan service in an interview on Whatsapp. "Dozens of families have fled their homes and settled near the Helmand river."

Other terrified locals told the BBC they had seen bodies lying in the streets.

Capturing the besieged Helmand provincial capital would be of huge symbolic value to the insurgents as they continue their rapid advance after the pullout of foreign forces. Helmand was the centrepiece of the US and British military campaign.

Afghanistan war: Bodies on the streets as fighting traps Lashkar Gah residents - BBC News

Edited by Ted E Hughes
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ThereWeAreThen

Just hope people bare in mind before the Taliban took over Afghanistan was fairly modern for its times. I personally believe most of their people want to progress but if they spoke out about it sadly they'd be killed. Hope the ANA and ANP eventually defeat the Talitubbies but sadly cant see it happening.

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Hammerclaw

Afghanistan chewed up Alexander the Great and spat him out, with little to show for his trouble. Throughout history, it's a country great powers have occupied, pacified but never civilized. Even among themselves, they've always managed to snatch peace from the jaws of victory.  If any people are the model of The Belters in The Expanse, it is the Afghans.  Perpetual revolt, against what ever powers there be, is their natural state.

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The Silver Shroud
Posted (edited)
On 8/3/2021 at 11:18 PM, ThereWeAreThen said:

Just hope people bare in mind before the Taliban took over Afghanistan was fairly modern for its times. I personally believe most of their people want to progress but if they spoke out about it sadly they'd be killed. Hope the ANA and ANP eventually defeat the Talitubbies but sadly cant see it happening.

The Taliban will take Afghanistan back to the stone age (literally).

Conditions for women especially had begun to improve, then the Taliban reversed things, then there was a gradual improvement with allied occupation, now it will all go back again.

Afghanistan: Before and after the Taliban - BBC News

Edited by Ted E Hughes

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and then
On 8/3/2021 at 1:46 AM, susieice said:

You can't really change someone and we can't sit there forever trying.  It's sad but it's the way of it. 20 years is more than enough to try.

I agree. I think we'd have been better served had we located the elements that planned and trained for the 9-11 attacks and then vaporized the general vicinity where they were burrowed.  The Shah i Kot valley has been used for centuries to hide these jihadis and had we simply deployed a few nuclear bunker busters in the first days of fighting, I expect the course of the conflict would have been much abbreviated.  The problem with that is that it leaves no means for our corrupt politicians and military contractors to become more wealthy.  I think our troops can leave Afghanistan with heads held high.  They did everything that was asked of them and they bled in the process.  If the Afghans fall back into the horrors of fundamentalist Islamic butchers posing as a government, they have only themselves to blame.  They had 20 years to put together a workable government and military and instead they just took part in the corruption.  For women, the elderly, the infirm, that place is about to descend back into the hell it was in 2000.

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The Silver Shroud
Posted (edited)

US sends in B-52 bombers and Spectre gunships to bombard the Taliban in a desperate bid to stop advance on three key cities in Afghanistan

The Taliban have been advancing across Afghanistan as the US withdraws  

The UK government has advised all Britons to leave Afghanistan immediately 

US President Joe Biden has ordered B-52 bombers and Spectre gunships to target Taliban terrorists in Afghanistan who are advancing towards three key cities. 

They are being supported by the AC-130 Spectre gunships which are armed with a 25mm Gatling gun, a 40mm Bofors cannon and a 105mm M102 cannon - which can provide pinpoint accurate fire from the air. 

US sends in B-52 bombers and Spectre gunships to halt advance of Taliban | Daily Mail Online

Edited by Ted E Hughes
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ThereWeAreThen
12 hours ago, Ted E Hughes said:

US sends in B-52 bombers and Spectre gunships to bombard the Taliban in a desperate bid to stop advance on three key cities in Afghanistan

The Taliban have been advancing across Afghanistan as the US withdraws  

The UK government has advised all Britons to leave Afghanistan immediately 

US President Joe Biden has ordered B-52 bombers and Spectre gunships to target Taliban terrorists in Afghanistan who are advancing towards three key cities. 

They are being supported by the AC-130 Spectre gunships which are armed with a 25mm Gatling gun, a 40mm Bofors cannon and a 105mm M102 cannon - which can provide pinpoint accurate fire from the air. 

US sends in B-52 bombers and Spectre gunships to halt advance of Taliban | Daily Mail Online

Thought the Yanks have stopped combat operations?

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Trelane
17 minutes ago, ThereWeAreThen said:

Thought the Yanks have stopped combat operations?

Offensive operations ceased. Units have still been deployed.

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ThereWeAreThen
Just now, Trelane said:

Offensive operations ceased. Units have still been deployed.

Ah right so still providing some support to the Afghan military.

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Trelane
5 hours ago, ThereWeAreThen said:

Ah right so still providing some support to the Afghan military.

Yeah, at least they were. I venture the mission sets are going to change drastically based off of the earlier reports in this thread.

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and then

The T-boys are behaving like an army does just prior to negotiating a truce or end to conflict.  Hopefully, the most sane and non-fundamentalist leaders will keep them in check until our remaining forces are repositioned and made more secure with the best assets for that mission.  If the Fundies decide to "get some back" against our troops, they may well lose far more than they think.

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ThereWeAreThen
7 hours ago, and then said:

The T-boys are behaving like an army does just prior to negotiating a truce or end to conflict.  Hopefully, the most sane and non-fundamentalist leaders will keep them in check until our remaining forces are repositioned and made more secure with the best assets for that mission.  If the Fundies decide to "get some back" against our troops, they may well lose far more than they think.

I got a feeling NATO will be back in a few years. When the Talitubbies take over the entire country in a few months, even more vile crimes against humanity will spread around the country. Alot of ex top military officials from UK and the US have been saying we shouldn't have left, I've seen a couple of videos from US soldiers saying the same thing.

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