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OverSword

Biden administration approves first arms sale to Taiwan

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OverSword
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The Biden administration has approved its first arms sale to Taiwan, a move sure to stoke Beijing’s ire.

The State Department has approved selling Taiwan up to 40 BAE Systems-made M109 self-propelled howitzers and related equipment, including up to 1,698 kits to turn projectiles into precision-guided munitions, in a deal estimated to be worth $750 million, according to a notice released Wednesday.

“This proposed sale serves U.S. national, economic and security interests by supporting the recipient’s continuing efforts to modernize its armed forces and to maintain a credible defensive capability,” the notice said. “The proposed sale will help improve the security of the recipient and assist in maintaining political stability, military balance, economic and progress in the region.”

The sale was first reported by Bloomberg.

The notice kicks off a 30-day congressional review period in which lawmakers could move to block the sale if they want. But arms sales to Taiwan have generally garnered strong bipartisan support.

 

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Of course you know China will raise a stink about this.  Personally I think we should lease land from Taiwan and open a naval base on it :gun:

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spartan max2

Hell yeah :gun::sm

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ThereWeAreThen

I completely support Taiwan's right to self determination. Very well run country. Got no problem in this, I dont usually agree with what my government does (British gov) but I'd agree with them selling arms to Taiwan if they had the balls to..

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Likely Guy

All in all, in a real war, it would amount to a popcorn fart in a wind storm.

But, it's symbolic.

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Tatetopa
4 hours ago, OverSword said:

The State Department has approved selling Taiwan up to 40 BAE Systems-made M109 self-propelled howitzers and related equipment, including up to 1,698 kits to turn projectiles into precision-guided munitions, in a deal estimated to be worth $750 million, according to a notice released Wednesday.

This is one of the last big projects I worked on as an engineer.  We made some of the big chunks of the undercarriage.   They are impressive as weapons systems, designed to set up shoot and move before they get targeted.    Hopefully the CCP has not got their hands on the plans yet.

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Likely Guy
4 hours ago, OverSword said:

Link

Of course you know China will raise a stink about this.  Personally I think we should lease land from Taiwan and open a naval base on it :gun:

What's the matter with Guam? They're already  Americans (though they don't get the same rights).

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Manwon Lender
4 hours ago, OverSword said:

Link

Of course you know China will raise a stink about this.  Personally I think we should lease land from Taiwan and open a naval base on it :gun:

I totally agree with you, however it would only bring the unspoken out into the open. Currently the US has a Sino-American Mutual Defense Treaty. However in 1980 the above defense treaty was taken out effect by the United States because they opened up relations with China for the first time. But, almost immediately they started anew program called the Taiwan Relations Act. This act carried over important parts of the original mutual defense treaty, so while it is currently unspoken the United States will support Taiwan if they are attacked by China. 

The dangerous part about support for Taiwan is that any conflict that the US incerts itself in between China and Taiwan can nit be a conventional conflict. Think about it where would a conflict with China be fought, currently the place that could occur would be naval engagements between surface ships and with submarines. This type if conflict will not be last very long, because the loser of the Naval conflict will only have two choices and that is to retire from the conflict which will destroy that Nations chance to hold what was gained since WWII, or to escalate the Conflict to include Nuclear Weapons.

I think that both Nations realize that thus is what will occur, and I also believe neither wants a Nuclear Conflict to occur so I don't think there is a major risk, well I should say .I hope there isn't!

 

 

 

 

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OverSword
3 hours ago, Likely Guy said:

What's the matter with Guam? They're already  Americans (though they don't get the same rights).

To act as a deterrent for the otherwise inevitably of China talking Taiwan by force

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OverSword
2 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

I totally agree with you, however it would only bring the unspoken out into the open. Currently the US has a Sino-American Mutual Defense Treaty. However in 1980 the above defense treaty was taken out effect by the United States because they opened up relations with China for the first time. But, almost immediately they started anew program called the Taiwan Relations Act. This act carried over important parts of the original mutual defense treaty, so while it is currently unspoken the United States will support Taiwan if they are attacked by China. 

The dangerous part about support for Taiwan is that any conflict that the US incerts itself in between China and Taiwan can nit be a conventional conflict. Think about it where would a conflict with China be fought, currently the place that could occur would be naval engagements between surface ships and with submarines. This type if conflict will not be last very long, because the loser of the Naval conflict will only have two choices and that is to retire from the conflict which will destroy that Nations chance to hold what was gained since WWII, or to escalate the Conflict to include Nuclear Weapons.

I think that both Nations realize that thus is what will occur, and I also believe neither wants a Nuclear Conflict to occur so I don't think there is a major risk, well I should say .I hope there isn't!

 

 

 

 

However China is no match for the US in, on, or above the sea.

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Tatetopa
3 minutes ago, OverSword said:

However China is no match for the US in, on, or above the sea.

True, but only moderately comforting. That being said, I would not propose we sit back and do nothing.

A military conflict in the area would be devastating to us as well.  Cargo ships and port facilities that are part of our supply chain would likely be sunk and damaged.  The destruction might extend beyond China and Taiwan to bystanders in the area like Thailand, Singapore, and Vietnam.  Japan may help Taiwan and become a target themselves, as they know and have already said. Japan is certainly within range of Chinese conventional missiles.  All of those countries are part of our primary supply chain or alternative sources.  We don't make enough electronics, critical pharmaceuticals or a host of other items in this country to meet our needs.   The goal of brinkmanship is to hold fast until the last possible moment and see who blinks.  If it goes beyond that and we start destroying each other, the leaders of both countries ****** up and we pay a heavy price for at least a generation or two.  It is not a given that we would ever fully recover.

My sister is a doc at a large American base in Japan.  They are talking about  possible preparations not just for deployments but also protection of the bases.  Although the US seems far away from China, we have a whole lot of military targets within range that we would prefer not to lose.

Here is a question for you  @Manwon Lender.  If a conflict does start, is it a golden opportunity for a starving and desperate North Korea to move on South Korea? If attacked,  is it an excuse for South Korea to retaliate and with US help  liberate North Korea and talk seriously about Unification? .

 

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Manwon Lender
1 hour ago, OverSword said:

However China is no match for the US in, on, or above the sea.

When it comes to Nuclear Weapons as a deterrent unfortunately they are a match. However, hopefully neither China or the United States will ever ysecthat option, because it is a no win situation, so in my opinion insanity would gave to rule the day for anything like this to occur.  

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Manwon Lender
31 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

True, but only moderately comforting. That being said, I would not propose we sit back and do nothing.

A military conflict in the area would be devastating to us as well.  Cargo ships and port facilities that are part of our supply chain would likely be sunk and damaged.  The destruction might extend beyond China and Taiwan to bystanders in the area like Thailand, Singapore, and Vietnam.  Japan may help Taiwan and become a target themselves, as they know and have already said. Japan is certainly within range of Chinese conventional missiles.  All of those countries are part of our primary supply chain or alternative sources.  We don't make enough electronics, critical pharmaceuticals or a host of other items in this country to meet our needs.   The goal of brinkmanship is to hold fast until the last possible moment and see who blinks.  If it goes beyond that and we start destroying each other, the leaders of both countries ****** up and we pay a heavy price for at least a generation or two.  It is not a given that we would ever fully recover.

My sister is a doc at a large American base in Japan.  They are talking about  possible preparations not just for deployments but also protection of the bases.  Although the US seems far away from China, we have a whole lot of military targets within range that we would prefer not to lose.

Here is a question for you  @Manwon Lender.  If a conflict does start, is it a golden opportunity for a starving and desperate North Korea to move on South Korea? If attacked,  is it an excuse for South Korea to retaliate and with US help  liberate North Korea and talk seriously about Unification? .

 

North Korea is control and ruled by China, I don't believe they would act in any situation unless their masters told them to act. Now, I think if a conflict broke among China and the United States, an attack upon South Korea would also occur. My thinking on this is that China would order North Korea to attack to drain addition Forces away from the bulk of the US Forces involved in the conflict. If an attack somehow occurred with warning the current number of US forces in the theater of operations would nit be large enough to fight a conflict on two fronts simultaneously. 

So again because of this, unless the United States decided to give everything up, theirvonky option would againg be the Nuclear Option. Because lets face it, the US will not just walk away there is to much invested in military bases in Eastern Asia from the Korean Peninsula to Japan, to Guam, to the Philippines. As far as South Korea fighting the North, there would be no other option if the US and China go to war.

JIMO

 

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psyche101

Look at that new POTUS easing the economic crisis. What a bloke. Getting on with the job  Much better than the last guy. 

 

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spartan max2
9 hours ago, Likely Guy said:

All in all, in a real war, it would amount to a popcorn fart in a wind storm.

But, it's symbolic.

1) The strategy of arming Taiwan is to give them a chance to stall until allies arrive 

And 2) to make an outright invasion more trouble than it's worth. Having to fight might deter more than if you can just walk in.

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aztek

not really, it only gives china a reason to desolate that region, turn it into dust. and not let them even fire a shot with their new shiny useless weapons,

oh and leasing to usa, lmao, usa already showed they would not fight, they are too worried about their people getting hurt, that old incident with iran when usn just gave up, shows china they have nothing to fear from usa.

in any case Biden is not doing them any favors, it is amazing to read, the same people who believe guns in hands of American civilians would not do anything against our gvmnt, yet they believe few missiles or tanks given to Taiwan will stop a superpower like china, lmao. it will only make china attack them much harder. 

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Cookie Monster
29 minutes ago, aztek said:

not really, it only gives china a reason to desolate that region, turn it into dust. and not let them even fire a shot with their new shiny useless weapons,

oh and leasing to usa, lmao, usa already showed they would not fight, they are too worried about their people getting hurt, that old incident with iran when usn just gave up, shows china they have nothing to fear from usa.

in any case Biden is not doing them any favors, it is amazing to read, the same people who believe guns in hands of American civilians would not do anything against our gvmnt, yet they believe few missiles or tanks given to Taiwan will stop a superpower like china, lmao. it will only make china attack them much harder. 

China has more men than Taiwan has bullets.

While Taiwan might successfully defend itself for a week, after than week it doesnt have the personal or assets for a longer war. China will just overwhelm them.

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