Fauci fears a COVID variant worse than Delta could be coming

[+joc]

On 8/5/2021 at 6:00 PM, Manwon Lender said:

However, what most fail to understand is that these mutations are bring driven by the unvaccinated.

Dude...I love you brother ...but...that is complete total 100% unsubstantiated rubbish.  The 'unvaccinated' don't have a damn thing to do with a virus mutating.  It's what they do. I don't mean to go off on you so please don't take it personal but I am getting a little bit damn sick and tired of being targeted.  First it was the unmasked are spreading the virus.  Now it's the unvaccinated are causing deadly mutations.  It's all propaganda.  How about sticking with facts.  You know...the 'facts'.   I am not afraid of getting the flu.  I am not afraid of getting Covid.  And I am not getting vaccinated for anything and that is that.  None of this is my fault.  None of it.  Got it? I haven't had the virus.  I haven't spread the virus.  I am not responsible for the virus mutating. 

[Katniss]

1 hour ago, joc said:

Dude...I love you brother ...but...that is complete total 100% unsubstantiated rubbish.  The 'unvaccinated' don't have a damn thing to do with a virus mutating.  It's what they do. I don't mean to go off on you so please don't take it personal but I am getting a little bit damn sick and tired of being targeted.  First it was the unmasked are spreading the virus.  Now it's the unvaccinated are causing deadly mutations.  It's all propaganda.  How about sticking with facts.  You know...the 'facts'.   I am not afraid of getting the flu.  I am not afraid of getting Covid.  And I am not getting vaccinated for anything and that is that.  None of this is my fault.  None of it.  Got it? I haven't had the virus.  I haven't spread the virus.  I am not responsible for the virus mutating. 

Oh but the unvaccinated do have a damn thing to do with this latest new virus, Dr. Joc. For a very simple reason, we would not have over 90% of unvaccinated covid patients filling up the hospitals right now with this new variant if that weren't true. If you were completely right, there would be very few in the hospitals right now.

[OpenMindedSceptic]

Fauci says he fears a deadlier variant.

Well, the likelihood is that any variant will be less deadly.

And with a distinct lack of evidence that any future variants will be deadlier then... this is simply PR BS.

Now all you contributors who live in fear, go get your tin hats on.

For the rest of us. Let's get back to the rulebook that was in play for five decades for sealing with viruses. 

[+joc]

14 minutes ago, Katniss said:

Oh but the unvaccinated do have a damn thing to do with this latest new virus, Dr. Joc. For a very simple reason, we would not have over 90% of unvaccinated covid patients filling up the hospitals right now with this new variant if that weren't true. If you were completely right, there would be very few in the hospitals right now.

If you want to get a vaccination...get a vaccination...but twisting logic doesn't help anything.

[Katniss]

5 minutes ago, joc said:

If you want to get a vaccination...get a vaccination...but twisting logic doesn't help anything.

You need unvaccinated people for a virus to mutate, it can hardly evolve within people that is vaccinated; it's quickly countered by antibodies.  Every year we improve the seasonal flu vaccines for the latest common flu variant.. Why do you think we do that? It's because the very few people who don't get the seasonal flu vaccine cause a slight new variation of the common flu. So we get ahead of it by modifying the seasonal flu vaccines to compensate for the latest variant change. Every med student knows this. Why don't you you Dr. Joc?

 

[XenoFish]

I really hope the next variant has a 99% kill rate. Just to shut these bald monkeys up. 

[Grim Reaper 6]

6 hours ago, joc said:

Dude...I love you brother ...but...that is complete total 100% unsubstantiated rubbish.  The 'unvaccinated' don't have a damn thing to do with a virus mutating.  It's what they do. I don't mean to go off on you so please don't take it personal but I am getting a little bit damn sick and tired of being targeted.  First it was the unmasked are spreading the virus.  Now it's the unvaccinated are causing deadly mutations.  It's all propaganda.  How about sticking with facts.  You know...the 'facts'.   I am not afraid of getting the flu.  I am not afraid of getting Covid.  And I am not getting vaccinated for anything and that is that.  None of this is my fault.  None of it.  Got it? I haven't had the virus.  I haven't spread the virus.  I am not responsible for the virus mutating. 

I am not taking anything you say here personally, but your comments above are very inaccurate. Do you think these Viruss just Mutate in the air without a host, these mutations occur within the human body as the Virus replicates. An unvaccinated person becomes infected and there is massive replication until that individual becomes sick. A vaccinated person has immunity which prevents the replication and they don't become sick, no replication and there is no mutation.

As far as you being targeted, well that has not been by me, your opinion is good to go but that's all your offering here saying it's all propaganda and misinformation. As far as telling me to stick to the facts that's comical because you have nothing to support your comments except your opinion. Everything I have said I can back up with the facts, you should try that sometime I am certain you would learn something. As far as you getting vaccinated that is your choice, show me in any comment I have made where I told you to get vaccinated.

If your not infected your not responsible for the Virus mutating, however anyone unvaccinated who becomes infected can be the individual whose body through replication could create the next variant. Every variant or mutation occurred in a single persons body during Virus replication and after the mutation occurred it was spread from that indivual to others who were infected. That's how mutations create variants and that's how those variants spread. 

I have not criticized you directly or indirectly in anyway, I have not told you to get vaccinated, I have not told you how to live your life. If it's all propaganda and misinformation I can see no reason for your rant, or why what others think even bothers you. You have had heated conversations about your views on this subject with others, I have stayed out of your arguements so please if anyone is targeting others it's you that have taken your frustrations out on me. 

Oh and by the way, if you need someone to vent upon in the future I am always here to be your sounding board!

• 

 

 

 

Edited August 8, 2021 by Manwon Lender

[Doug1066]

On 8/5/2021 at 5:25 PM, WVK said:

If America's current COVID-19 surge continues unabated into the fall and winter, the country will likely face an even more deadly strain of the virus that could evade the current coronavirus vaccines, NIAID director Anthony Fauci told McClatchy Wednesday.

https://www.axios.com/fauci-delta-variant-covid-d1c0d550-6624-417d-bde6-33c8f56deaba.html

Lambda is already here.  Looks like it can, at least partially, evade the vaccines.

Last winter I got a lot done during covid quarantine.  Looks like we're going to have another spike about four weeks from tomorrow (The students return a week from Monday, Oklahoma is about 38% vaccinated and  our local hospital is at covid capacity with delta.).  Looks like 2021 may make 2020 look like a cake walk.

And then:  Trump will supposedly be "reinstated" before the end of August; if he isn't, his supporters are threatening violence.  Oh, I wish 2020 would come back.

Doug

[+joc]

4 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

I am not taking anything you say here personally, but your comments above are very inaccurate. Do you think these Viruss just Mutate in the air without a host, these mutations occur within the human body as the Virus replicates. An unvaccinated person becomes infected and there is massive replication until that individual becomes sick. A vaccinated person has immunity which prevents the replication and they don't become sick, no replication and there is no mutation.

As far as you being targeted, well that has not been by me, your opinion is good to go but that's all your offering here saying it's all propaganda and misinformation. As far as telling me to stick to the facts that's comical because you have nothing to support your comments except your opinion. Everything I have said I can back up with the facts, you should try that sometime I am certain you would learn something. As far as you getting vaccinated that is your choice, show me in any comment I have made where I told you to get vaccinated.

If your not infected your not responsible for the Virus mutating, however anyone unvaccinated who becomes infected can be the individual whose body through replication could create the next variant. Every variant or mutation occurred in a single persons body during Virus replication and after the mutation occurred it was spread from that indivual to others who were infected. That's how mutations create variants and that's how those variants spread. 

I have not criticized you directly or indirectly in anyway, I have not told you to get vaccinated, I have not told you how to live your life. If it's all propaganda and misinformation I can see no reason for your rant, or why what others think even bothers you. You have had heated conversations about your views on this subject with others, I have stayed out of your arguements so please if anyone is targeting others it's you that have taken your frustrations out on me. 

Oh and by the way, if you need someone to vent upon in the future I am always here to be your sounding board!

• 

 

 

 

The reason I asked that  you not take it personal is because it isn't...not with you.    The reason I am frustrated is because it is a political witch hunt which brings the 'unvaccinated'...i.e.  Donald J Trump supporters into the Target Scope.  It's all political...and you don't see that.  Forest/Trees?  I don't know but you aren't seeing that apparently.  

[+joc]

6 hours ago, Katniss said:

You need unvaccinated people for a virus to mutate

Well, darlin', we have had a year and a half for the 'thing' to mutate....because while millions were dying worldwide...no one was vaccinated.  So now, suddenly, why is it the 'unvaccinated' in America's fault?  It isn't.  It's a political witchhunt by the left...and you fell for it.  

[Grim Reaper 6]

52 minutes ago, joc said:

The reason I asked that  you not take it personal is because it isn't...not with you.    The reason I am frustrated is because it is a political witch hunt which brings the 'unvaccinated'...i.e.  Donald J Trump supporters into the Target Scope.  It's all political...and you don't see that.  Forest/Trees?  I don't know but you aren't seeing that apparently.  

I certainly see that there is a political witch hunt going on the question is who is responsible for it. When ever a discussion about Covid 19 begins on this forum their are certain individuals ( not directed at you ) who jump into the discussion with conspiracies, misinformation, and lies. They never back up their comments with any sourced medical data, and they are intent upon convincing people that everything is hoax, and to use their own words perpetrated by the Left. 

From what I have seen your right Trump supporters are highlighted in these discussions. But, not for the reasons you describe, these people create an atmosphere which brings attention to them. Because, they push outlandish and ridiculous claims that dont standup to scientific scrutiny. If you disagree show me where that isn't occurring, because on the other hand I can show you where it is occurring. So yes it is the forest through the trees, so to say I can't see what's occurring is certainly not accurate.

If forum members are having a discussion and someone jumps in with non-medical outlandish remarks do you thing that will not bring attention to them?

If you disagree with a subject do you honestly believe that injecting a ridiculous opinion based comment into the discussion will not or should not evoke a response?

Then when asked to provide evidence of their comments, these same people will not respond so doesn't this approach cause their comments to be valueless and then disregarded as nonsense?

We both know that in order for anyone's comments to be considered and respected there must be proof of the comments validity, if not do you believe that these people should be treated differently than anyone else and that their comments should be taken at face value?

Here is my take on the situation, if anyone joins a conversation and makes comments that are not in step with the current scientific information being presented to the world. These people need to provide proof, because it is possible that they have new information that isn't widely published yet. If they are unable to do this maybe staying out of the conversation is best.

There is know reason to intentionally antagonize others by injecting their political affiliation and their parties views into a conversation. Taking situations like this and politically weaponizing the subject is a Trump tactic and his followers use his unfounded information on a regular basis here. I mean if Trump makes a ridiculous statement or claim concerning this pandemic in less than 24 hours his supporters are making the same comment word for word. 

In my opinion if anyone adds something without a source their comments are worthless and to me at least viewed as a unfounded opinion. So to remedy this, I think that if someone can provide a source maybe it's best not to comment, or if asked for a source to provide one. If that individual can not do either they should expect criticism and they should not be offended, becusse it's simply cause and effect nothing more nothing less because their actions brought everything upon themselves.

Peace Dude.

[psyche101]

1 hour ago, joc said:

Well, darlin', we have had a year and a half for the 'thing' to mutate....because while millions were dying worldwide...no one was vaccinated.  So now, suddenly, why is it the 'unvaccinated' in America's fault?  It isn't.  It's a political witchhunt by the left...and you fell for it.  

It is unvaccinated people's fault because they are where the virus is gaining ground to mutate

Manwon put up an excellent description on how a virus mutates in the host cell. That explains it very well and justifies the claim.

It's no witchhunt. This advice applies to the entire planet. Not just America.

[+joc]

2 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

It is unvaccinated people's fault because they are where the virus is gaining ground to mutate

Manwon put up an excellent description on how a virus mutates in the host cell. That explains it very well and justifies the claim.

It's no witchhunt. This advice applies to the entire planet. Not just America.

No, it doesn't.  The pandemic is called Covid 19...it's freaking 2021...now suddenly the virus is mutating because some people aren't vaccinated??  That line of thought is intellectual laziness.  But what I don't understand is why the intense desire to get everyone vaccinated...I mean...aren't most of the unvaccinated Trump supporters?  And if they get Covid and die isn't that all the better?   

This whole thing stinks and I'm not buying into anything that doesn't really add up.  There is nothing wrong with my intellectual thought process.  There is however something wrong with an entire political state of mind that is all about getting people vaccinated.   Something smells fishy around the old farm house.

[+and-then]

9 hours ago, Katniss said:

we would not have over 90% of unvaccinated covid patients filling up the hospitals right now with this new variant if that weren't true.

Well, we hear this claim and I'm willing to accept it without proof so long as you folks who are setting your "blame sights" on the "unvaccinated", are also willing to stipulate to the veracity of the claim that several other countries, which have a near total population of vaccinated citizens are also having outbreaks of fully vaccinated people with Delta.  Some cases of which are proving lethal. 

My point has nothing to do with claiming vaxxed subjects are more likely to be sicker or die more often than the "unvaxxed".  My point is that these variants are being spread by BOTH cohorts.  Which means that people who are unfortunate enough to die from Covid don't care if they contracted it from a vaxxed or unvaxxed source.  Does that make sense?  I'm really trying to be reasonable and logical, not snarky.  If I'm misunderstanding the reports then I'll stand to be corrected and admit I'm in error.

[+joc]

12 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Here is my take on the situation, if anyone joins a conversation and makes comments that are not in step with the current scientific information being presented to the world.

Okay...stop...back up 3 feet and reevaluate that sentence.  i.e.  the part in italics.  The current scientific information being presented to the world.   Who is presenting this scientific information...well, obviously the researchers are writing papers and such...but who is it that is 'presenting' it to the world...and how is it being presented?  Get's us back to the Media real quick doesn't it.  These people in the media Manwon;  they twist everything...you cannot trust them to present factual non-biased truth. There are a lot of highly educated but naïve people in the world who will parrot the information believing it is the truth...when in fact...nothing, absolutely nothing in the media is real truth...it is all biased by their own narrative.  That isn't conspiracy thinking...that's just calling the monster out for what it is.

The only misrepresentation in this storyline is that of the 'narrative' itself...the premise that says unvaccinated people are the reason for mutating viruses...and that is intellectually void of logic.  Everyone was unvaccinated until vaccines came upon us.  And how many millions of people were infected with Covid 19 before the vaccine?  Get my point?

[+and-then]

11 minutes ago, joc said:

But what I don't understand is why the intense desire to get everyone vaccinated.

Right?  I may be old as dirt and statistically illiterate but when I see a contagion that kills far fewer than 2 percent of those who contract it - from ANY SOURCE - being clearly propagandized as though it's the equivalent of "airborne Ebola" or summat, let's just say it makes me go...hmmm.  Honestly, I can't imagine any adult who wouldn't wonder why we're seeing a panic over a virus that is behaving EXACTLY the same as all viruses have through the millennia. It's conforming to its environment so that it can spread and survive. 

To accomplish that goal it needs to change structure such that it can "catch hold" of host cells more efficiently -CHECK - and so that fewer hosts die and leave the virus homeless -CHECK.    I also cannot understand how such a large population of reasonably well educated people, who just spent 4 years questioning literally EVERY action and statement of a political leader, could suddenly decide that they can trust their lives to political leaders, even when significant questions are being raised by real scientists who are trying to understand the behavior of this virus, NOT to score political points.  I consider that fact to be nothing short of surreal.

[+and-then]

13 minutes ago, joc said:

Get my point?

Sometimes, there isn't anything left to say, if non-snarky, well-meaning and flawless logic fails to cause a person to even consider rethinking a position.

[psyche101]

25 minutes ago, joc said:

No, it doesn't.  The pandemic is called Covid 19...it's freaking 2021...now suddenly the virus is mutating because some people aren't vaccinated??  That line of thought is intellectual laziness. 

Dude, it's a virus. They mutate constantly. That's what they do. So do we for that matter.

It would have mutated thousands of times since we first saw it. Not many mutations are helpful. Every now and then, one is successful. That's the new strain.

That's just how they work. 

25 minutes ago, joc said:

But what I don't understand is why the intense desire to get everyone vaccinated...I mean...aren't most of the unvaccinated Trump supporters?  And if they get Covid and die isn't that all the better?   

It's all the people they will take with them that are the concern.

25 minutes ago, joc said:

This whole thing stinks and I'm not buying into anything that doesn't really add up.  There is nothing wrong with my intellectual thought process.  There is however something wrong with an entire political state of mind that is all about getting people vaccinated.   Something smells fishy around the old farm house.

When a disease affects the entire planet, it's a real concern. Vaccination is here to fight that immediate threat.

It all adds up. Viruses mutate. Unvaccinated people provide the perfect environment for that to happen. It's really quite simple.

[psyche101]

4 minutes ago, and then said:

Sometimes, there isn't anything left to say, if non-snarky, well-meaning and flawless logic fails to cause a person to even consider rethinking a position.

It's very hypocritical how you often say others should rethink their situation, yet you never ever do. 

How do you expect credibility considering your own refusal to consider the majority over the minority, and the fact that you do not admit it when proven wrong?

[psyche101]

9 minutes ago, and then said:

Right?  I may be old as dirt and statistically illiterate but when I see a contagion that kills far fewer than 2 percent of those who contract it - from ANY SOURCE - being clearly propagandized as though it's the equivalent of "airborne Ebola" or summat, let's just say it makes me go...hmmm.  Honestly, I can't imagine any adult who wouldn't wonder why we're seeing a panic over a virus that is behaving EXACTLY the same as all viruses have through the millennia. It's conforming to its environment so that it can spread and survive. 

To accomplish that goal it needs to change structure such that it can "catch hold" of host cells more efficiently -CHECK - and so that fewer hosts die and leave the virus homeless -CHECK.    I also cannot understand how such a large population of reasonably well educated people, who just spent 4 years questioning literally EVERY action and statement of a political leader, could suddenly decide that they can trust their lives to political leaders, even when significant questions are being raised by real scientists who are trying to understand the behavior of this virus, NOT to score political points.  I consider that fact to be nothing short of surreal.

So who are all the dead people and why are there so many in recent times if it's overblown and people don't die from it? 

 

[+and-then]

1 minute ago, psyche101 said:

It's very hypocritical how you often say others should rethink their situation, yet you never ever do. 

How do you expect credibility considering your own refusal to consider the majority over the minority, and the fact that you do not admit it when proven wrong?

When was I "proven" wrong?  I know what you believe and I think I understand WHY you believe it but you fail to recognize the reality that our global media has created for the world.  We are literally in a "post-factual" era.  On most news topics there are few if any educated experts offering their opinions.  So what we rely on is sources that we BELIEVE to be factual.  If you go back and randomly sample current sources on the net you can find aggressively dogmatic opinions and "facts" supporting vaccines or believing them to be either a hoax or at best a scam for control and wealth.

I recognized that trend quite awhile ago and I altered my stance somewhat where the virus and vaccines are concerned.  First, I have NEVER been "anti-vax".  Second, I have ALWAYS supported the right of any person to be vaccinated if they so chose.  I recognize that they have looked at the information and have made the choice they think is right for them.  I support them in that process, totally.  The current situation is changing rapidly, though.  I see governments and media refusing to acknowledge that same right to those they disagree with.  At this point, they are skating dangerously close to actual tyranny and compelling acceptance of experimental treatments that would clearly break the laws we all adopted after WWII and it's attempts at genocide and eugenics.

IF evidence had been offered that proved this virus to be a threat so deadly that if we did not shut economies and travel down, immediately, we'd see an actual depopulation event then I'd be on board with the current rhetoric.  2 percent, Psyche.  TWO PERCENT fatality rate that has not elevated at all over two years.  We've seen the inevitable structural changes that variants need to better compete for hosts and the concurrent increase in transmissibility that goes along with those changes.  For the data to be as incomplete due to such a short period of collection, the few reports I have read all agree that morbidity with these new strains has not increased and in some populations it has decreased to the level of what we expect from seasonal flu.  BTW, I'm still searching for that article.  I know I didn't imagine it so as soon as I locate it I'll share it here.  If that conclusion flew in the face of a hundred years of viral research findings, I'd have never offered it here.  Not to call anyone out by name but the example that I can cite for my belief that many in media and just casual opinions online are selling panic p0rn, I saw a comment today stating unequivocally that the 'Rona was only a few changes away from being as deadly as E B O L A.  THAT is the unhinged level of nonsense that's being pushed in these discussions.

All of that rhetoric is damaging our nations FAR worse than any virus could.  Our media is being used by government and the corporations that own them, to set people against each other to the point of actually justifying the removal of freedom of travel and association.  I understand your opinion/stance on this issue and I have no problem with you making that choice for yourself. 

Here in the U.S. we've recently seen news reports from your nation and Canada where the governments have chosen to put a small, unarmed military presence in the streets.  Their self-described mission is to assist civilian authorities with enforcing Covid rules.  They mentioned the examples of "road blocks" (check points) and even soldiers going door to door to confirm that known infected citizens were at home.  Again, I've listened to your opinions on this but I have a simple question and I hope you'll answer it.  IF your government was under the authority of Trump or someone like him, would you still be as willing to comply?

 

[+and-then]

33 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

So who are all the dead people and why are there so many in recent times if it's overblown and people don't die from it? 

 

I never claimed the virus was a hoax or that it wasn't deadly.  I simply pointed to the evidence of the last two years that its lethality has not increased, despite the half-dozen mutations.  I also understand that the "fact sources" on total numbers of dead, especially in my country, have been PROVEN to be padded, I assume for political gain.  Examples?  Since the beginning of the spread we've been paying a "bonus" 50 thousand dollars per case that is hospitalized.  This, long before any widespread testing was even possible.  We've also seen many examples from various states that prove that death certificates were being falsified to use Covid as the CoD where it actually was only present in the body WHEN the death occurred.  There was one guy in Florida that was certified to have died from Covid after he was pronounced dead in an emergency room after a motorcycle crash.  I'm not fabricating these anecdotes.  Our government literally subsidized cash payments to hospitals and physicians that would help defend their narrative.

Now, maybe we're beginning to get a better resolved picture of WHY they did this.  Mandates will not be accepted here.  We won't be shamed into it and no one is going to issue some edict that law enforcement will use to arrest and forcibly inject their neighbors.  Ever heard of that "bridge too far"?  This would be an example of that.  

[Grim Reaper 6]

1 hour ago, joc said:

Okay...stop...back up 3 feet and reevaluate that sentence.  i.e.  the part in italics.  The current scientific information being presented to the world.   Who is presenting this scientific information...well, obviously the researchers are writing papers and such...but who is it that is 'presenting' it to the world...and how is it being presented?  Get's us back to the Media real quick doesn't it.  These people in the media Manwon;  they twist everything...you cannot trust them to present factual non-biased truth. There are a lot of highly educated but naïve people in the world who will parrot the information believing it is the truth...when in fact...nothing, absolutely nothing in the media is real truth...it is all biased by their own narrative.  That isn't conspiracy thinking...that's just calling the monster out for what it is.

The only misrepresentation in this storyline is that of the 'narrative' itself...the premise that says unvaccinated people are the reason for mutating viruses...and that is intellectually void of logic.  Everyone was unvaccinated until vaccines came upon us.  And how many millions of people were infected with Covid 19 before the vaccine?  Get my point?

What I get is your desire to discuss opinions, you welcome to believe whatever you choose. But nothing your are adding is based upon facts, my friend according to you there are no facts, and no information can be trusted. That is your opinion, Now my friend I will not debate or discuss opinions with you or anyone. All I am willing to say at this point is I agree to disagree and so long as you base all of your comments on your personal opinions and offer nothing to back up your assumptions we have nothing to discuss!

Peace my friend 

[psyche101]

1 hour ago, Manwon Lender said:

You are truly paranoid and that isn't a supposition it's a clear fact!

Thank goodness for posters like you. Posters like you are the ones that maintain credibility for the US.

Edited August 9, 2021 by psyche101

[Grim Reaper 6]

1 hour ago, psyche101 said:

Thank goodness for posters like you. Posters like you are the ones that maintain credibility for the US.

Well thanks, but trust me it's a little embarrassing to see my own countrymen so envolved in their political beliefs that they will do anything to push that agenda. I get no satisfaction out of responding to anyone that way, but it's impossible to just let's pass. 

Take care my friend.