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Biden's botched Afghanistan exit is a disaster at home and abroad long in the making


Manwon Lender
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The debacle of the US defeat and chaotic retreat in Afghanistan is a political disaster for Joe Biden, whose failure to orchestrate an urgent and orderly exit will further rock a presidency plagued by crises and stain his legacy. And while Biden's political and geopolitical rivals rush to exploit his mistakes, the true magnitude of the crisis can only be judged in the human tragedy of a people again subject to Taliban persecution.

And a failure to fulfill the now apparently near-impossible tasks of evacuating all the Afghan translators, workers and fixers on whom the US relied and who now face Taliban retribution would besmirch America's conscience and global reputation. 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/bidens-botched-afghanistan-exit-is-a-disaster-at-home-and-abroad-long-in-the-making/ar-AANmpZD

 

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Posted (edited)

It is a disaster which will snowball as the Taliban start to punish those who they see as collaborators. According to this, Biden was a long time sceptic of the value of the US trying to fix problems in the Middle East and Asia: Afghanistan conflict: As Kabul falls, Biden backlash grows - BBC News:

His decision to pull out is hardly a surprise. Since his days as vice-president to Barack Obama, he has always insisted that the war should be limited in its mission.

As a senator from Delaware in 2001, he joined a unanimous vote to approve the use of military force in Afghanistan. But he opposed the deployment of more troops Mr Obama authorised in 2009, the so-called "surge".

"Biden was pretty darn clear on Afghanistan," Brett Bruen, a former diplomat who sat in the Obama administration's National Security Council meetings, told the BBC. "He said we should get the heck out of there."

It will be interesting to see how much capital Trump can make of it- he can hardly deny he also wanted to withdraw the troops, but he is personally fortunate it hasn't happened on his watch.

Edited by The Silver Shroud
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It wouldn't have been any different no matter who was in charge. Unless you're willing to nuke the entire country to glass, there isn't a win condition. Trump, Obama, bush, hell even Gorbachev couldn't win out there 

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11 minutes ago, Autochthon1990 said:

It wouldn't have been any different no matter who was in charge. Unless you're willing to nuke the entire country to glass, there isn't a win condition. Trump, Obama, bush, hell even Gorbachev couldn't win out there 

Afghanistan is the grave of Empires, it’s where superpowers go to die. The British Empire, The Soviets, the American Alliance, soon the Chinese.

 

HOWEVER Biden was caught in Catch-22, either he follows through with Trump’s plan to pull out knowing the consequences or stay and be called a warmonger. 

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If the people of Afghanistan didn't even put up an attempt to resist the taliban then it doesn't matter much. 20 years should have suffice to at least make the people see the differences between both "sides", corruption and low pay isn't the reason alone. these people (majority or very significant %) do not want to live in a a (to be) modern society, either it be communist like (Vietnam or China), or somewhat democratic.

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Now they can go back to joyously slaughtering one-another, as the Taliban finds out what it's like to be in command. It should be interesting to see who the next outside power will be to try to manage the place. 

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4 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Now they can go back to joyously slaughtering one-another, as the Taliban finds out what it's like to be in command. It should be interesting to see who the next outside power will be to try to manage the place. 

China has already made in roads, we will see how that works out for them.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Hammerclaw said:

Now they can go back to joyously slaughtering one-another, as the Taliban finds out what it's like to be in command. It should be interesting to see who the next outside power will be to try to manage the place. 

It's going to be an Incels paradise.

All I could see around me were the fearful and scared faces of women and ugly faces of men who hate women, who do not like women to get educated, work and have freedom. Most devastating to me were the ones who looked happy and made fun of women. Instead of standing by our side, they stand with the Taliban and give them even more power. An Afghan woman in Kabul: ‘Now I have to burn everything I achieved’ | Afghanistan | The Guardian

Edited by The Silver Shroud
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17 minutes ago, The Silver Shroud said:

It's going to be an Incels paradise.

All I could see around me were the fearful and scared faces of women and ugly faces of men who hate women, who do not like women to get educated, work and have freedom. Most devastating to me were the ones who looked happy and made fun of women. Instead of standing by our side, they stand with the Taliban and give them even more power. An Afghan woman in Kabul: ‘Now I have to burn everything I achieved’ | Afghanistan | The Guardian

That's the reality of Radical Islam and the Taliban when it comes to Sharia Law they have also preverted that. Under a Taliban rule women are nothing but a piece of property, they have no rights at all, a husband can do anything he wishes to do to his wife including murdering her. So yea when it comes to the Taliban Rule, Afghanistan just entered the Dark Ages.

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2 hours ago, godnodog said:

If the people of Afghanistan didn't even put up an attempt to resist the taliban then it doesn't matter much. 20 years should have suffice to at least make the people see the differences between both "sides", corruption and low pay isn't the reason alone. these people (majority or very significant %) do not want to live in a a (to be) modern society, either it be communist like (Vietnam or China), or somewhat democratic.

Well from my experience there, it's not about the ideology at all. It's about fear, and not fear for themselves, it's about what will happen to their families if they resist. You see death is not something Afghan males fear, they are exposed to it throughout their entire lives, from the time they are young children onward. So when the entire Afghan Military drops their weapons, and changes into civilian clothing what can an average farmer or goat herder actually do, except try to find away to keep their wives and children alive thats why they didn't resist, and for no other reason.

Take Care my friend. 

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I don't blame Biden or other western leaders. Pulling out as soon as possible was the only right decision otherwise this would have gone on forever.
The Taliban could not be defeated because if need be they always could retreat to Pakistan where their roots are.
What really is a shame is the Afghan Army, 300,000 soldiers, built up and trained for years and then defect within a few days.
Islamists worldwide will be inspired and we soon will see more terror attacks.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

Now they can go back to joyously slaughtering one-another, as the Taliban finds out what it's like to be in command. It should be interesting to see who the next outside power will be to try to manage the place. 

Problem is, this will embolden Islamic terrorists world wide,  they'll soon be slaughtering us (again) as well. 

Edited by itsnotoutthere
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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, The Silver Shroud said:

It's going to be an Incels paradise.

All I could see around me were the fearful and scared faces of women and ugly faces of men who hate women, who do not like women to get educated, work and have freedom. Most devastating to me were the ones who looked happy and made fun of women. Instead of standing by our side, they stand with the Taliban and give them even more power. An Afghan woman in Kabul: ‘Now I have to burn everything I achieved’ | Afghanistan | The Guardian

We became the glue holding all the disparate tribes, clans and territories together. Afghanistan has never been a country or a nationality, just a patchwork quilt of conflicting interests and deep distrust. We became de facto conquerors and just like when all the other conquerors left, when we left, it all fell apart and everything went back to business as usual. We'd have had to stay for a century to effect permanent change and that wasn't in the cards. The Taliban will have their day before they, too, are overthrown from within or without. 

Edited by Hammerclaw
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1 hour ago, itsnotoutthere said:

Problem is, this will embolden Islamic terrorists world wide,  they'll soon be slaughtering us (again) as well. 

Perhaps, perhaps not. I rather doubt they'd want us to come visit, again.

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5 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Afghanistan is the grave of Empires, it’s where superpowers go to die. The British Empire, The Soviets, the American Alliance, soon the Chinese.

 

HOWEVER Biden was caught in Catch-22, either he follows through with Trump’s plan to pull out knowing the consequences or stay and be called a warmonger. 

I do hope idiot biden is not making world decisions based on what names people may call him, but he isn't a smart man. 

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1 minute ago, Myles said:

I do hope idiot biden is not making world decisions based on what names people may call him, but he isn't a smart man. 

Hi Myles

To me a war monger is someone who creates a war to pursue and at this point do not see Biden in that role he had to deal with what was on the table and he didn't set the plates. Is he an idiot I don't know but so far have heard much less about him than when Trump was in power so is that because he is an idiot or because he is doing what he has to with what he inherited, I am a Canadian so there you go no skin off my knuckles so to speak and your country is yours so I do hope you all can work together to take care of real issues rather than fighting about distractions. In the end it all works like magic look here while I do something else

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2 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Well from my experience there, it's not about the ideology at all. It's about fear, and not fear for themselves, it's about what will happen to their families if they resist. You see death is not something Afghan males fear, they are exposed to it throughout their entire lives, from the time they are young children onward. So when the entire Afghan Military drops their weapons, and changes into civilian clothing what can an average farmer or goat herder actually do, except try to find away to keep their wives and children alive thats why they didn't resist, and for no other reason.

Take Care my friend. 

I don't disagree, but you don't see, or at least is not reported, the slightest effort to resist anywhere.

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The Taliban might have got smart. If they decide to be less antisocial and avoid the sort of headlines they previously created then they could enjoy the position of leaders and the wealth that goes with it.

Their ideology is only motivated by self interest. 

It is hard to relax by the pool when there is an armed drone circling above. ;)

 

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1 hour ago, Myles said:

I do hope idiot biden is not making world decisions based on what names people may call him, but he isn't a smart man. 

Understatement of the century. 

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53 minutes ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

The Taliban might have got smart. If they decide to be less antisocial and avoid the sort of headlines they previously created then they could enjoy the position of leaders and the wealth that goes with it.

Their ideology is only motivated by self interest. 

It is hard to relax by the pool when there is an armed drone circling above. ;)

 

Still, wouldn't want to be a gay man or straight woman in Afghanistan right now. 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, The Silver Shroud said:

It's going to be an Incels paradise.

All I could see around me were the fearful and scared faces of women and ugly faces of men who hate women, who do not like women to get educated, work and have freedom. Most devastating to me were the ones who looked happy and made fun of women. Instead of standing by our side, they stand with the Taliban and give them even more power. An Afghan woman in Kabul: ‘Now I have to burn everything I achieved’ | Afghanistan | The Guardian

Surely you mean male jihadi paradise.

On the bright side, at least Shamima Begum has got somewhere to go now and spend the rest of her days with like minded people. 

Edited by itsnotoutthere
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I think people are missing the point.

Biden messed up not by leaving Afghanistan. Both him and Trump planned to do that. Its unfortunately/fortunately what most people wanted.

The **** up is how he did it.

Our allies got ****ed. We didn't have time to get our translators and those who helped us out. Some of who have now literally been beheaded.

We should of gotten everyone out before pulling the troops out.

 

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We pumped trillions into that country.  We armed them to the teeth and trained them in our tactics.  We gave them a taste of how life can be if they are willing to fight for it.  At some point it has to be up to them to sink or swim and now is as good a time as any. 

Here is where we blew it.  Our allies, the Afghanistan government was corrupt, just like in Vietnam.  With that weak immoral leadership they're doomed.  Not to worry all the top dogs got out of the country with corrupt fortunes and will live in luxury for a few generations.  

Obviously the US government fails to learn from past mistakes and now Afghanistan will pay.  I really feel sorry for the females in that country.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

HOWEVER Biden was caught in Catch-22, either he follows through with Trump’s plan to pull out knowing the consequences or stay and be called a warmonger. 

Where Biden messed up was by putting a deadline for it to the public.  That date of 9/11 really gave encouragement to the Taliban fighters.  He should have said we will be working to continue to strengthen the Afghanis and have them take over the job of defending their nation, and then drawn down our troops and evacuated our partners on the downlow.

Edited by OverSword
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