Biden's botched Afghanistan exit is a disaster at home and abroad long in the making

[docyabut2]

3 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

The issue is not that the Americans wanted to end their operations in Afghanistan.

Its the way Biden has gone about it. America has responsibilities, including the responsibility to leave properly so a stable Government remains. Not quit and run, not leave loads of Americans and Westerners behind, not abandoning most of those who helped us.

The source I just read said he has left the Taliban to take over 200 fighter jets, several hundred black hawk helicopters, 6000 armoured personal carriers and humvees, and over 300,000 in weapons. They did something similar in Iraq and ISIS grabbed itself loads of American tanks.

ya right the democrats  Biden  Americans are letting  Taliban take over our  weapons we left   "(

[docyabut2]

Biden's botched Afghanistan exit

[Tatetopa]

2 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

Its the way Biden has gone about it. America has responsibilities, including the responsibility to leave properly so a stable Government remains. Not quit and run, not leave loads of Americans and Westerners behind, not abandoning most of those who helped us.

There is no stable government.  So far, we are still there helping Afghans and our allies evacuate personnel.  Here is an A-29 fighter aircraft  left in Afghanistan. Who kept them flying?  American contractors.  Who kept all the military equipment operating?  American and allied civilian contractors mostly.  Those people are leaving.

 

 

Note the propeller on the front.

[acidhead]

And just like that VP Kamala Harris goes on vacation.  

Wild.  

 

BTW, who is she waving to?

 

[el midgetron]

Holy Moly! She’s not waving she’s sieg heiling!!!!

Anyway, sleepy Joe is sitting on his thumbs while actual leaders are rescuing their citizens from the nightmare disaster Joe made. What a complete loser. He needs to resign.  

Quote

As US military sticks to airport, British and French forces are rescuing their citizens in Kabul: 

https://www.militarytimes.com/flashpoints/afghanistan/2021/08/19/as-us-military-sticks-to-airport-british-and-french-forces-are-rescuing-their-citizens-in-kabul-reports/

[Duke Wellington]

16 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

Holy Moly! She’s not waving she’s sieg heiling!!!!

Anyway, sleepy Joe is sitting on his thumbs while actual leaders are rescuing their citizens from the nightmare disaster Joe made. What a complete loser. He needs to resign.  

https://www.militarytimes.com/flashpoints/afghanistan/2021/08/19/as-us-military-sticks-to-airport-british-and-french-forces-are-rescuing-their-citizens-in-kabul-reports/

What about Bagram Airfield.

Everyone went to sleep, when the Afghan forces woke up in the morning the Americans had vanished without telling them. And left all their stuff behind. I mean, what the hell is that?

 

Edited August 21, 2021 by Cookie Monster

[el midgetron]

33 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

What about Bagram Airfield.

Everyone went to sleep, when the Afghan forces woke up in the morning the Americans had vanished without telling them. And left all their stuff behind. I mean, what the hell is that?

 

Ha Steve Martin and Bill Murray, classic!
 

I think the point is that French and German forces are leaving the airport to extract their citizens who are trapped in the dumpster fire Joe made, American forces are not making an attempt to bring citizens and our allies to the relative safety of the airport.

[Freez1]

And who voted for this POS? He wasn’t voted into office he was installed like a toilet. Him and his POS Vice President.

What did you expect out of this clown? And yet here we are dropping everything to pull out of a war we have been fighting for how long? We however needed to be done with this war but it should have been completed in a professional manner. His cut and run approach doesn’t surprise me any. He’s going to flip the tables on more than you think. It’s about his pockets not the American citizens pockets. Gear up and watch he’s old and crusty but he’s still the same greedy POS he was 20 years ago. 
But what’s crazy is his presidency will leave a deep crevice in future elections. Trump had a big mouth and even let his temper get the best of him. But he put America first by cutting China from robbing us blind. He made business pay more in import that wanted to seek out cheap labor cost and rob Americans of jobs. He had enough of a spine to stand up to these other nations and demand we be respected. But none of this was good enough for you tree hugging bunny kissing crazy people. You fell into the idea of allowing a total nut case be our president. Stop complaining about Biden just remember to get some dead people to vote him out of there next time.

[Duke Wellington]

16 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

Ha Steve Martin and Bill Murray, classic!
 

I think the point is that French and German forces are leaving the airport to extract their citizens who are trapped in the dumpster fire Joe made, American forces are not making an attempt to bring citizens and our allies to the relative safety of the airport.

Britain, France, and Germany, need a meeting.

We are too dependent on the USA and seem afraid to do things on our own. The USA has lost global respect over this one, and its time we assumed our proper positions militarily.

[el midgetron]

Where you from Cookie Monster?

[Duke Wellington]

9 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

Where you from Cookie Monster?

I`m a Brit

[Helen of Annoy]

3 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

I`m a Brit

 

Privet, you utterly convincing Brit  

[+DieChecker]

Where was it I heard a bunch of hicks in trucks with rifles could Never... Ever... beat a technologically weapon iced army?

I think it was in those 2nd ammendment threads.

Here's a good example of AKs beating tanks and jetfighters.

[+DieChecker]

So can we call the false info Joe keeps saying "Biden's Big Lie"? Because I think ever president needs a Big Lie.

Repeating debunked soundbites doesn't make them true Joe...

[Helen of Annoy]

24 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Where was it I heard a bunch of hicks in trucks with rifles could Never... Ever... beat a technologically weapon iced army?

I think it was in those 2nd ammendment threads.

Here's a good example of AKs beating tanks and jetfighters.

Care to share a link or two that would show which battles you're apparently referring to? I'm trying to say you're hilariously wrong when you gloat over Taliban "victory", which consist in Taliban being the only organized structure in Afghanistan. That tragic but true fact is not a problem to understand, provided you've got a first idea what that, what is called Afghan society works like. It's tribal and backwards to the bone. 

This was not a military victory, this is troglodyte, extremist mentality victory. 

If you can spin that to make you feel better about your domestic politics, you've got a problem very similar to Afghanistan's problem.  

[Duke Wellington]

20 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Where was it I heard a bunch of hicks in trucks with rifles could Never... Ever... beat a technologically weapon iced army?

I think it was in those 2nd ammendment threads.

Here's a good example of AKs beating tanks and jetfighters.

There isn`t a single example of an army ever defeating a resistance, unless they went full on Mongol and Roman by executing everyone.

The problem is the occupying army doesnt know who is merely a civilian, and who is a hidden combatant. They both say yes we love you, yes we support you, and yes we prefer living under your way. Until the right time arises when the combatant then kills some of your forces.

A resistance doesnt have technological supremacy, the art of a resistance is to make it too costly for the occupying army to stay in terms of body bags returning home and finances being spent. A modern occupying force could get innovative by chipping the conquered population, but the American leadership dont seem bright enough to do that. And it would also have conflicted with their ideals about liberty.

But if you chip everyone, know where each person is, can map their networks by looking at who they have been in contact with, and maybe even listen in on their conversations too, there is a route there where it would be possible now at this point in history to defeat a resistance.

[Helen of Annoy]

45 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

There isn`t a single example of an army ever defeating a resistance, unless they went full on Mongol and Roman by executing everyone.

The problem is the occupying army doesnt know who is merely a civilian, and who is a hidden combatant. They both say yes we love you, yes we support you, and yes we prefer living under your way. Until the right time arises when the combatant then kills some of your forces.

A resistance doesnt have technological supremacy, the art of a resistance is to make it too costly for the occupying army to stay in terms of body bags returning home and finances being spent. A modern occupying force could get innovative by chipping the conquered population, but the American leadership dont seem bright enough to do that. And it would also have conflicted with their ideals about liberty.

But if you chip everyone, know where each person is, can map their networks by looking at who they have been in contact with, and maybe even listen in on their conversations too, there is a route there where it would be possible now at this point in history to defeat a resistance.

Batyushka, the country you claim you live in right now is the result of defeated resistance. 

Just pointing out the gaps... actually, chasms... in your logic. 

[el midgetron]

55 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

I'm trying to say you're hilariously wrong when you gloat over Taliban "victory", which consist in Taliban being the only organized structure in Afghanistan. That tragic but true fact is not a problem to understand, provided you've got a first idea what that, what is called Afghan society works like. It's tribal and backwards to the bone. 

This was not a military victory, this is troglodyte, extremist mentality victory. 

Of course it was military victory for the Taliban. They might be a bunch of troglodytes but we weren’t in a caveman competition with them. 

[diddyman68]

22 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

NATO secretary general doing his speech at the moment.

He is laying down the law to the Taliban making it clear what NATO wont tolerate. He has let it be known that the fast collapse of the Afghanistan government was not planned for or anticipated.

We need a legal reason to declare war and suck NATO in.

So,we should never have gone there in the first place.wasted lives,money and 20 years.all for the sake of catching bin laden ?nah not buying it.

These warlords and tribal people are pretty set in their ways, they'll never change their view about following the extreme laws of the koran.

Trying to change or control these people is like trying to teach a pack of wolves table manners,never gonna happen.

Anyway it's just a matter of time before another bunch of fanatical tribal rapists comes along and overthrows the taliban.

Not sure why your so keen to go back and repeat the last 20 years,if your so incensed by brutal barbarians,theres a big list of alternative regimes like china,north korea ,nigria,saudi arabia, Belgium.

 

[Helen of Annoy]

38 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

Of course it was military victory for the Taliban. They might be a bunch of troglodytes but we weren’t in a caveman competition with them. 

It wasn't a military victory for Taliban. They simply poured in after the opponent withdrew. 

American withdrawal was a political decision, not a strategic necessity. 

[Duke Wellington]

1 hour ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Batyushka, the country you claim you live in right now is the result of defeated resistance. 

Just pointing out the gaps... actually, chasms... in your logic. 

Please enlighten us.

Civil Wars are different (as its Englishman vs Englishman). Fights over which heir should become King are also different, and in case you dont know William the Conqueror was the legal heir. And fights over which brand of Christianity was correct is also different. These are all internal conflicts and powerplays between Church and heirs. Not invasions by outside powers.

England has only been invaded by an outside power once in its history. That was Denmark. And the resistance against the Danes won, we expelled them from our lands, and their North Sea Empire collapsed.

Spain, France, Germany, have all had pops but been defeated. Pre-Roman England was not Angles, Saxons, and Jutes. They got rid of the natives and created England. They are the English, not the ancient Britons. Those natives had a dam good go at getting rid of the Romans but got slaughtered for their efforts.

Edited August 21, 2021 by Cookie Monster

[el midgetron]

1 minute ago, Helen of Annoy said:

It wasn't a military victory for Taliban. They simply poured in after the opponent withdrew. 

American withdrawal was a political decision, not a strategic necessity. 

We sent our military in there with the intent of removing the Taliban for power. Our military chased them in to caves. Our military maintained relative control of Afghanistan. Our military trained the Afghanistan armed forces. Our military invested a small mountain of weapons, ammunition, equipment and vehicles to the effort, Now some 20 years later it’s apparent our military’s efforts were a failure. We did not intend to just hand Afghanistan back to the Taliban. For the Taliban who resisted those efforts, it’s a victory against the most powerful military in the world. 
 

Conversely, the Taliban could have attempted a more symmetrical approach to dealing with the Allied forces. It almost certainly would have had a much worse outcome for them. Maybe it’s crediting the troglodytes to much to call their response strategic or to credit them with the patients and perseverance for victory? However, at the moment they seem to be enjoying the results none the less.

[A rather obscure Bassoon]

Can't help feeling that Biden spat on the graves of the fallen of all nations involved.

When does the brutality of sharia law commence.

[Helen of Annoy]

1 hour ago, Cookie Monster said:

Please enlighten us.

Civil Wars are different (as its Englishman vs Englishman). Fights over which heir should become King are also different, and in case you dont know William the Conqueror was the legal heir. And fights over which brand of Christianity was correct is also different. These are all internal conflicts and powerplays between Church and heirs. Not invasions by outside powers.

England has only been invaded by an outside power once in its history. That was Denmark. And the resistance against the Danes won, we expelled them from our lands, and their North Sea Empire collapsed.

Spain, France, Germany, have all had pops but been defeated. Pre-Roman England was not Angles, Saxons, and Jutes. They got rid of the natives and created England. They are the English, not the ancient Britons. Those natives had a dam good go at getting rid of the Romans but got slaughtered for their efforts.

Could you take your Anglocentric myths to some more appropriate thread? Not that this specific Anglocentric irrational blindness to actual situation wasn't additional factor in screwing up Afghanistan - an Anglocentric mind feels an outright urge to set up countries to the likeness of UK, clumping traditionally antagonistic tribes together, with one hegemonic tribe/nation to **** on everyone else's head, making it easier to rule... only it's not working, you dumb ****s. 

All the countries invented to fit the UK mould fell apart. More or less forcefully. It would be an exception if Afghanistan survives. 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, el midgetron said:

We sent our military in there with the intent of removing the Taliban for power. Our military chased them in to caves. Our military maintained relative control of Afghanistan. Our military trained the Afghanistan armed forces. Our military invested a small mountain of weapons, ammunition, equipment and vehicles to the effort, Now some 20 years later it’s apparent our military’s efforts were a failure. We did not intend to just hand Afghanistan back to the Taliban. For the Taliban who resisted those efforts, it’s a victory against the most powerful military in the world. 
 

Conversely, the Taliban could have attempted a more symmetrical approach to dealing with the Allied forces. It almost certainly would have had a much worse outcome for them. Maybe it’s crediting the troglodytes to much to call their response strategic or to credit them with the patients and perseverance for victory? However, at the moment they seem to be enjoying the results none the less.

I certainly agree that the US wasted 20 years in Afghanistan. Only I'm not that naive to believe the US went there for the ideals, or locals, it was politically justified reaction to terrorism that soon turned into business. A business is encouraged while it's profitable. Maybe otherwise perpetual war in  Afghanistan simply spent its politically acceptable time, since it's draining the budget but not contributing enough back. It's not my intention to appear as if I can explain this to you, I just wanted to make it clear I do not think US went to Afghanistan to win a war, US went to Afghanistan to have a war, because wars are important part of US economy. 

Military victory means exactly that, what it sounds like - while the vacuum filled with Taliban, without direct conflict at all (note that evacuation goes on, only civilians are murdered by Taliban, they're not engaging Americans at all) does not meet the definition of a military victory. Yes, I'm nitpicking - only because of bizarre urge some Americans (!) have, to praise ****ing Taliban. It's so bizarre and amusingly ironic, since the lack of national unity is what screwed up (rendered nonexistent, actually) Afghan resistance to Taliban.     

The only upside of the situation that left Afghanistan to Taliban is that now all those various freaks under Taliban umbrella will lose the common enemy, which means their internal fights for power will start. They will also screw up their relations with their sponsors because the Taliban were interesting to support only while they were getting on American nerves. Now the Taliban are the obstacle to the Afghan resources. Serve them right. 

Edited August 21, 2021 by Helen of Annoy

[itsnotoutthere]