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Biden's botched Afghanistan exit is a disaster at home and abroad long in the making


Manwon Lender
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1 hour ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Could you take your Anglocentric myths to some more appropriate thread? Not that this specific Anglocentric irrational blindness to actual situation wasn't additional factor in screwing up Afghanistan - an Anglocentric mind feels an outright urge to set up countries to the likeness of UK, clumping traditionally antagonistic tribes together, with one hegemonic tribe/nation to **** on everyone else's head, making it easier to rule... only it's not working, you dumb ****s. 

All the countries invented to fit the UK mould fell apart. More or less forcefully. It would be an exception if Afghanistan survives. 

I certainly agree that the US wasted 20 years in Afghanistan. Only I'm not that naive to believe the US went there for the ideals, or locals, it was politically justified reaction to terrorism that soon turned into business. A business is encouraged while it's profitable. Maybe otherwise perpetual war in  Afghanistan simply spent its politically acceptable time, since it's draining the budget but not contributing enough back. It's not my intention to appear as if I can explain this to you, I just wanted to make it clear I do not think US went to Afghanistan to win a war, US went to Afghanistan to have a war, because wars are important part of US economy. 

Military victory means exactly that, what it sounds like - while the vacuum filled with Taliban, without direct conflict at all (note that evacuation goes on, only civilians are murdered by Taliban, they're not engaging Americans at all) does not meet the definition of a military victory. Yes, I'm nitpicking - only because of bizarre urge some Americans (!) have, to praise ****ing Taliban. It's so bizarre and amusingly ironic, since the lack of national unity is what screwed up (rendered nonexistent, actually) Afghan resistance to Taliban.     

The only upside of the situation that left Afghanistan to Taliban is that now all those various freaks under Taliban umbrella will lose the common enemy, which means their internal fights for power will start. They will also screw up their relations with their sponsors because the Taliban were interesting to support only while they were getting on American nerves. Now the Taliban are the obstacle to the Afghan resources. Serve them right. 

Hang on this was Americas Project, not a British one.

And I dont hear you complaining about Britain coming to save you all from Serbia. If it was British project, or America left properly handing it over to us, we would have done a better job than them. We definitely wouldn`t have quit and run leaving our equipment behind.

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18 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

 Britain coming to save you all from Serbia. 

:lol: 

As everyone knows and remembers very clearly, it was precisely the opposite. Slightly similar to Afghanistan, or Iraq, only in Europe, former Yugoslavia was British geopolitical child, another conglomerate of tribes/nations clumped into an artificial state with one dominant nation and violent methods of national re-identification. With intention to change the geopolitical structure of the region. Of course it didn't work. I was born in that mess and I too did my part in bringing it down. And did some British politicians invest a lot of time and scheming in keeping that historic carcass alive. To no avail. If it's dead, it's dead. 

Or you referred to the attempts to save greater Serbian borders once they lost the ****ing war they ****ing started in 1990's? Well, you failed. And the damn thing keeps on crumbling. Ooops, there goes Kosovo too.... :lol: They're actually rather p***ed at Brits who failed to back them up as they thought they deserve :lol: Ah, political karma... it can be so satisfying sometimes :) 

(The funny thing is I do feel quite strong pan-Slavic sympathies, but it applies to people, not extremist politicians.)

 

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If it was British project, or America left properly handing it over to us,

It was British too, within NATO. Until 2014 or so, when Brits gave up Afghanistan. Nothing wrong in that, but the hypocrite spectacle they're throwing today is outright bizarre. They went home first, but it's somehow wrong when Americans are fed up already too? 

And you're hilarious in that role of British supremacist :lol: Hand it over to you... you, the first who withdrew :lol:  

 

Now stop that entertaining act, people are trying to discuss Afghanistan for real. Not that there's much to discuss. Everyone knows everything, some are still bound to pretend they don't, common Afghans are screwed as usual and much more than that, I'm looking forward to souring of the relations of the Taliban and their sponsors. 

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2 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

. Yes, I'm nitpicking - only because of bizarre urge some Americans (!) have, to praise ****ing Taliban.

Well, I can certainly agree with your opinion of the Taliban, they are amongst the worst human kind has to offer. My view Joe’s disastrous withdrawal being a military victory for the Taliban is certainly not intended to be a praise of the Taliban any more so than acknowledging the Nazis had some military victories during WW2 could be construed as praising those royal tool bags. 

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1 hour ago, Helen of Annoy said:

:lol: 

As everyone knows and remembers very clearly, it was precisely the opposite. Slightly similar to Afghanistan, or Iraq, only in Europe, former Yugoslavia was British geopolitical child, another conglomerate of tribes/nations clumped into an artificial state with one dominant nation and violent methods of national re-identification. With intention to change the geopolitical structure of the region. Of course it didn't work. I was born in that mess and I too did my part in bringing it down. And did some British politicians invest a lot of time and scheming in keeping that historic carcass alive. To no avail. If it's dead, it's dead. 

Or you referred to the attempts to save greater Serbian borders once they lost the ****ing war they ****ing started in 1990's? Well, you failed. And the damn thing keeps on crumbling. Ooops, there goes Kosovo too.... :lol: They're actually rather p***ed at Brits who failed to back them up as they thought they deserve :lol: Ah, political karma... it can be so satisfying sometimes :) 

(The funny thing is I do feel quite strong pan-Slavic sympathies, but it applies to people, not extremist politicians.)

It was British too, within NATO. Until 2014 or so, when Brits gave up Afghanistan. Nothing wrong in that, but the hypocrite spectacle they're throwing today is outright bizarre. They went home first, but it's somehow wrong when Americans are fed up already too? 

And you're hilarious in that role of British supremacist :lol: Hand it over to you... you, the first who withdrew :lol:  

Now stop that entertaining act, people are trying to discuss Afghanistan for real. Not that there's much to discuss. Everyone knows everything, some are still bound to pretend they don't, common Afghans are screwed as usual and much more than that, I'm looking forward to souring of the relations of the Taliban and their sponsors. 

I dont know why you Yugoslavians aren`t happy all being together, or why each area needed to be different from its neighbours. But your country crumbled for whatever reason (I suspect extremist fervent nationalism). I was simply pointing out that Britain came in to save you all, and yes then it came in to save Kosovo too. We were never an ally of Greater Serbia (whatever that is). Looking in from the outside we were trying to save you all from yourselves and your strange need to disintegrate your nation.

The USA launched the war on terror, 9/11 happened on its soil. We went in as an ally to help provide them with support. Together we saved the Afghanistan people and nation, but America cut and run without giving anyone any advance warning. If they had said right we are going in 6 months, then Britain and the rest of NATO could have made preparations brining in extra troops from themselves.

Now, chaos is occurring, chaos which will no doubt lead to a 2nd war when Britain is forced to go in and once again save them.

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1 hour ago, el midgetron said:

Well, I can certainly agree with your opinion of the Taliban, they are amongst the worst human kind has to offer. My view Joe’s disastrous withdrawal being a military victory for the Taliban is certainly not intended to be a praise of the Taliban any more so than acknowledging the Nazis had some military victories during WW2 could be construed as praising those royal tool bags. 

I understand. My apologies for overreacting. Just one short rant more and I'm gone. Thank you for bearing with me. 

 

Like I said, it's not a military victory if they walk into not defended towns. Their "victory" stops at defended part of the country (Panjshir valley). Taliban takeover is the logical consequence of a political decision to stop bleeding resources into a country that doesn't respond to outside efforts. 

Which is how comparing that to actual Nazi military victories sounds offensive. For Nazis. Kidding. Sorry, I love me some morbid humour. 

 

There's no neat withdrawal. If it looks neat, then the reports were sanitized and the public wasn't told the truth. 

Would Trump pull out in more elegant manner? lol.

Trumpers were praising him for treating Taliban like people to negotiate with, for withdrawal from Syria, for promise of withdrawal from Afghanistan. Even for his attempts to destabilize NATO with his hilarious quoting of old soviet propaganda (he seemed to believe NATO is extorting members to enrich the US). So he would withdraw from Afghanistan, that's certain. And the chaos would be the same because it seems he fortunately wasn't allowed to screw up military matters too much with his natural knowledge of everything.  

Besides, I didn't notice your military has particular problems, it's the non-extremist Afghans who are in (justified) panic and cut off from the evacuation points. Since I don't believe Joe's critics care for Afghans - in fact, it's a ****hole according to Trump and these are not the type of people an average trumper wants in the US - the noise against Joe in context of Afghanistan has nothing to do with actual Afghanistan. 

Of course I don't mind Americans criticizing their presidents freely, it's good for everyone else too, freezepeach and stuff, but make up your mind people - did you want your forces to stay or to leave Afghanistan? Because they can't do both. 

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Donald Trump: ‘Vietnam Looks Like Master Class in Strategy Compared to Joe Biden’s Catastrophe’ in Afghanistan

Trump added that Biden’s “botched exit in Afghanistan is the most astonishing display of gross incompetence by a nation’s leader perhaps at any time that anybody’s ever seen. Name another situation like this.”

He continued:

Vietnam looks like a master class in strategy compared to Joe Biden’s catastrophe. And it didn’t have to happen. All he had to do is leave the soldiers there until everything is out, our citizens, our weapons. Then you bomb the hell out of the bases, we have five bases, and you say ‘bye bye.’ You say, ‘bye bye.’ The scene of those big giant planes taking off with people hanging on the sides and falling off… there’ll never be anything like that. That’s worse than the helicopters. You remember the helicopters taking off the roofs? This blows it away. Not even a contest. This will go down as one of the great military defeats of all time and it did not have to happen that way. This is not a withdrawal, this was a total surrender, a surrender for no reason.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/08/21/donald-trump-vietnam-bidens-afghanistan/

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Even Tony Blair has now come out and told Biden he is an imbecile.

Time to go off to that retirement home for dementia OAPs Biden!!!

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Just curious... 

What leverage does Biden have to extend the August 31st deadline?  

Seems he's only saying things to calm Americans but the reality on the ground in Kabul say otherwise. 

 

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I don’t see why they would be restricted from extending past the Augsburg 31 deadline.

They would probably just say it was alway intended to be August 31st*

 

 

 

*2022

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President Joe Biden warned Americans to expect a difficult process to evacuate more citizens, visa holders, and refugees from Afghanistan on Sunday.

“We have a long way to go. And a lot could still go wrong,” Biden said during an afternoon speech at the White House. The president was 18 minutes late in appearing.
He repeatedly offered excuses for the chaotic process, claiming there was “no way” to evacuate so many people without “pain and loss.”

 

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/08/22/joe-biden-a-lot-could-still-go-wrong-afghanistan-evacuations/
 

i dunno, I kinda doubt there are very many more things that could go wrong at this point.

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4 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/08/22/joe-biden-a-lot-could-still-go-wrong-afghanistan-evacuations/
 

i dunno, I kinda doubt there are very many more things that could go wrong at this point.

They have no plan.  The deadline to leave Afghanistan is August 31. Bidens presser today was a bumbling mess even though he was reading off a teleprompter and taking scripted questions where he'd read out the name of the questionnaire and flip to the prepared answer on a sheet of paper.  It's embarrassing to watch this POTUS.  He looks terribly weak.

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Osama bin Laden once warned al Qaeda not to target Joe Biden because he believed that his inheriting the presidency if something were to happen to Barack Obama would “lead the US into a crisis,” a resurfaced letter shows. 

In the letter dated May 2010, the al Qaeda 9/11 mastermind wrote he had no assassination plots against Biden because he deemed him “totally unprepared” to lead the United States.

https://nypost.com/2021/08/20/bin-laden-warned-in-2010-letter-that-biden-would-lead-us-into-crisis/

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51 minutes ago, acidhead said:

I know, for Gods sake if we have to tolerate a Democrat Government can they at least put Obama or Clinton back in charge.

How did Biden honestly get past his party election? I`ve yet to see him do one speech where he doesnt forget what he is saying, or doesnt start spouting off random sentences that dont follow on from each other. I watched one the other night where he got confused and thought that he was his own wife to himself. I mean come on, it isn`t safe putting the shiny red nuclear button on this guys desk.

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On 8/21/2021 at 12:51 PM, acidhead said:

And just like that VP Kamala Harris goes on vacation.  

Wild.  

:wacko: 

BTW, who is she waving to?

 

That's exactly what our PM, Scotty from marketing does when we have a national crisis.

Maybe she learned from him? 

Either that or she is eyeing off Australian politics if the whole deal falls apart. 

She is waving to me I think. Looks like that in the picture anyway.

Edited by psyche101
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58 minutes ago, acidhead said:

You guys should make that bloke president. He looks like he could handle the job better than anyone.

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33 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

... if we have to tolerate a Democrat Government ...

Just where did the whole whingeing pom trope originate anyway?

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By far the biggest disaster in the Middle East was when Baby Bush lied U.S into Iraq. Joe Biden is just trying to leave the place.

 

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A senior Taliban spokesman told the U.K.’s Sky News on Monday that the United States and its ally Britain will face “consequences” if they seek to extend their military presence in Afghanistan to ensure the safe evacuation of their citizens.

American President Joe Biden announced this summer that he would withdraw all American troops from the country by August 31. Biden had previously announced in April that the withdrawal would end on September 11, the 20th anniversary of the jihadist attacks that prompted the Afghan War. Both dates were a significant extension of the war from the set withdrawal date under former President Donald Trump, who brokered a deal with the Taliban that would have seen a full American military exit by May 1.

The Taliban followed Biden’s extension of the war – and his choice to break the agreement Trump brokered with the jihadist organization – with a nationwide campaign to overthrow the now-former government of Afghanistan. The campaign culminated with Taliban terrorists surrounding the country’s capital, Kabul, on August 15, prompting former President Ashraf Ghani to abruptly flee the country.

https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2021/08/23/taliban-threatens-joe-biden-stay-in-afghanistan-past-august-and-suffer-consequences/

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Yea its mind boggling , i mean if the deadline is aug 31st , why not start moving your civilians out in july , then move the military out in the middle of august, long before the deadline and before the Taliban even get to Kabul. Perhaps they didn't trust the Afghan army and gov't. But still , the result would be the same if they were fully out weeks before the deadline. The Afghan army and gov't know you are leaving at a certain point anyway.Potentially , they could possibly still take out any aircraft left behind when they leave.

Edited by razman
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On a side note , i get the feeling some of these gov'ts like russia and china make a lot of progress because they don't have any opposition to them . In the US they're like a bunch of divided bickering kids on a playground , spending much of their time infighting.

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Yeah... Peace treaties suck. Soldiers hate peace.

Sigh.... :blink: :rolleyes:

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