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Biden's botched Afghanistan exit is a disaster at home and abroad long in the making


Manwon Lender
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3 hours ago, docyabut2 said:

After August 31 Taliban , Isis ,Bin laden  terrorists are going to kill all the Afghanistan people that supported Americans, and all their allies that are trapped in Afghanistan

I think the collaborators left there will be slaughtered. I think a few of the Americans will be killed before the US pays a ransom for the rest. 

Edited by el midgetron
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3 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

I think the collaborators left their will be slaughtered. I think a few of the Americans will be killed before the US pays a ransom for the rest. 

They’ll kill a small handful, no more than 5 just to see what the US does in reaction. After that, when Joe starts drawing red lines in the sand, the slaughter will begin in earnest.

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UN rights boss says she has credible reports of Taliban executions

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/un-rights-boss-says-has-credible-reports-taliban-executions-2021-08-24/

Quote

Afghans Tell of Executions, Forced ‘Marriages’ in Taliban-Held Areas

https://www.wsj.com/articles/afghans-tell-of-executions-forced-marriages-in-taliban-held-areas-11628780820

Quote

Horrifying video reportedly shows Afghan police chief executed by Taliban

https://nypost.com/2021/08/20/video-reportedly-shows-taliban-execute-afghan-police-chief/

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47 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

Biden is lying to you, every other world leader is saying things which contradict the BS he is coming out with.

That's not what the footage shows. 

It's more likely that your irrational fear of Biden is bringing you to false conclusions. 

47 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

The Taliban have blocked all people, American or Afghanistan, going into the airport. If they didn`t make it there by the middle of day two then they haven`t made it inside. American forces are not driving off to collect their citizens, they have been left to fend for themselves. They have been given an unresponsive email address, and no one comes for them even if their email gets through.

I saw footage of people being helped in last night. So that can't be true either. Sure security is tight, yet a wanted criminal here is in regular contact with lawyers negotiating a return to Australia. 

So that sounds like BS too. Even criminals are getting out. Apparently this chap prefers the idea of life behind bars here rather than life under the Taliban. 

47 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

The Taliban have already started executing people. Anybody that speaks English (Afghan or Westerner) is being murdered off. The worst is yet to come on the 31st when Biden has to leave all those remain, or violate his peace agreement with the Taliban. In which case there will be a bloodbath at the airport for doing so.

Well, we shall see who remains or what happens. We are on track here to get our people out. The rest of your post seems to be almost wishful thinking. 

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13 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

I get the World News here in Korea, there is no talk of major executions taking place. I have checked the news both online and I get 7 news channels on TV I can't find it. 

The United Nations  reported the executions 

https://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=27403&LangID=E  

Statement by Michelle Bachelet, UN High Commissioner for Human Rights

24 August 2021

Madam President,
Excellencies,
Colleagues and friends, 

[ ] 

In particular, we have also received credible reports of serious violations of international humanitarian law, and human rights abuses, taking place in many areas under effective Taliban control. They include, among others, summary executions of civilians and hors de combat members of the Afghan national security forces; restrictions on the rights of women – including their right to move around freely and girls' right to attend schools; recruitment of child soldiers; and repression of peaceful protest and expression of dissent. 

[ ]  

 

 

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Despite assurances by President Joe Biden that Americans are safely making their way to the Kabul airport for evacuation, an aide to Sen. Tom Cotton (R-AR) tweeted Monday that an American woman was stranded in Kabul, beaten by the Taliban, and unable to get out.

“An American woman is stranded in Kabul, all alone,” the aide, Marine veteran Matthew Downer, tweeted Monday afternoon.

“When she tried to get to the airport, the Taliban beat her for the crime of traveling without a male escort,” he added. “She has heard nothing from the State Department — only from free lance volunteers a world away.”

 

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/08/23/tom-cotton-aide-american-woman-stranded-in-kabul-beaten-by-taliban/

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I really would like to think we are missing something here. A couple was granted passage into what I assume would be the coveted airport and they ditched their kids in the hellhole they can't handle themselves? Not that there's any appropriate place to do that ever. Is this the character of refugees we're bringing over? Will they be found out an denied entry during the vetting process? Is there an actual vetting process? Thats probably a bs lie too. 

 

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It’s going down.

Quote

Taliban spokesperson Dr Suhail Shaheen said: "It's a red line. President Biden announced that on 31 August they would withdraw all their military forces. So if they extend it that means they are extending occupation while there is no need for that."

He added: "If the US or UK were to seek additional time to continue evacuations - the answer is no. Or there would be consequences. It will create mistrust between us. If they are intent on continuing the occupation it will provoke a reaction."

https://news.sky.com/story/afghanistan-taliban-warns-there-will-be-consequences-if-biden-delays-withdrawal-of-us-troops-12388436
 

No chance we get everyone out by 31st. 

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3 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

A few mean tweets warning them to let us get our people out sure would be nice right about now. 

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Well, If we don't get all the people out and they start killing them, we need to destroy about 5% of Afghanistan's Infrastructure per day, until there is nothing left, and the Afghan people rise up against the Taliban, or they let the people out.

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11 minutes ago, South Alabam said:

Well, If we don't get all the people out and they start killing them, we need to destroy about 5% of Afghanistan's Infrastructure per day, until there is nothing left, and the Afghan people rise up against the Taliban, or they let the people out.

5% of Afghanistan’s infrastructure a day? After we’ve been bombing them for years? To destroy 5% of a country’s infrastructure in 1 day, let alone consecutively for 20 days not very realistic in my very un-expert opinion.

from 2019 -

Quote

The US has ramped up its bombing campaign in Afghanistan to highest level in 9 years

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-bombing-in-afghanistan-at-highest-level-in-9-years-2019-10

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There are about 40 million people in Afghanistan and 60k or so Taliban.  What we destroy is likely to bring sufferings to the wrong people.  They won't govern  40 million people by being kind and forgiving.  If they don't rule by fear, they will be overrun and they know it no matter what they say on YouTube.  Whether the US agrees to their terms  or fights back a lot more Afghans will be killed.   We cannot save all of them.  So the cold question becomes what is best for the US?

 

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2 hours ago, psyche101 said:

He was your president.

He was terrible at it. Worst president ever..

Give Biden time....

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3 hours ago, psyche101 said:

None will be. 

Like America, we aren't leaving until we have our people out.

Didn't the US pull out all soldiers then rush 5000 back after it was apparent the Taliban was going to take over in days rather then years?

Yes, that is exactly what happened. Civilians and allies where left behind.

The US military, at Biden's orders, left and abandoned our civilians. 

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/07/us-troop-withdrawal-afghanistan-498671

Quote

07/07/2021 06:05 PM EDT

The U.S. military's withdrawal from Afghanistan is essentially complete, despite President Joe Biden's comments last week that American troops will leave by late August, according to two U.S. officials.

"The withdrawal is over, for all intents and purposes," said one of the officials with direct knowledge of the situation, who requested anonymity to discuss sensitive planning. "It's done."

 

Edited by DieChecker
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21 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Give Biden time....

Nowhere near enough ahole in the bloke to even compete. 

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Posted (IP: Staff) ·
2 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Nowhere near enough ahole in the bloke to even compete. 

Hi mate, just dropping by to say hi. Haven't spoken in ages. 
And in case you were wondering, we still disagree on a lot of things - Biden is a thousand times worse than Trump! 

~ PA

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12 minutes ago, DieChecker said:

Didn't the US pull out all soldiers then rush 5000 back after it was apparent the Taliban was going to take over in days rather then years?

Yes, that is exactly what happened. Civilians and allies where left behind.

The US military, at Biden's orders, left and abandoned our civilians. 

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07/07/us-troop-withdrawal-afghanistan-498671

 

It also says:

While the withdrawal is over 90% complete, it is not done," Kirby said. "Temporary Enabling Forces remain in theater that are focused on providing security for a safe and orderly withdrawal. As long as these forces and certain contract support are still there, the withdrawal is ongoing."

600 were left to organise withdrawal. When it became disorderly, additional support was given. 

That seems pretty reasonable. 

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1 hour ago, Paranoid Android said:

Hi mate, just dropping by to say hi. Haven't spoken in ages. 
And in case you were wondering, we still disagree on a lot of things - Biden is a thousand times worse than Trump! 

~ PA

Ha good to see you bro.

You have to drop in again so I can point out that you're wrong :rofl: :lol:

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5 hours ago, closed for business said:

Hi Cookie

To be honest when I see the words evidence and claims in the first 2 sentences then actually see no evidence other than claims I am skeptical to say the least. I think some people should take that speculation and fear mongering doesn't help in these types of situations just like it didn't help with the American elections or covid it's like people can't live without doom and gloom. Personally I am waiting till the end of the month to see what actually happens.

So you quote a reply of mine with a link in, and then post that.

You have now been placed on my ignore list. Manwon, you are long overdue it too, you are on it now as well.

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4 hours ago, acidhead said:

The United Nations  reported the executions 

https://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=27403&LangID=E  

Statement by Michelle Bachelet, UN High Commissioner for Human Rights

24 August 2021

Madam President,
Excellencies,
Colleagues and friends, 

[ ] 

In particular, we have also received credible reports of serious violations of international humanitarian law, and human rights abuses, taking place in many areas under effective Taliban control. They include, among others, summary executions of civilians and hors de combat members of the Afghan national security forces; restrictions on the rights of women – including their right to move around freely and girls' right to attend schools; recruitment of child soldiers; and repression of peaceful protest and expression of dissent. 

[ ]  

 

 

Thank you!

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6 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

There are about 40 million people in Afghanistan and 60k or so Taliban.  What we destroy is likely to bring sufferings to the wrong people.  They won't govern  40 million people by being kind and forgiving.  If they don't rule by fear, they will be overrun and they know it no matter what they say on YouTube.  Whether the US agrees to their terms  or fights back a lot more Afghans will be killed.   We cannot save all of them.  So the cold question becomes what is best for the US?

Sending in troops often doesn't have the best results.  Take Operation Cottage back in WWII where we took back Kiska Island from the Japanese.  We sent in 34,000 troops and suffered 313 causualties recovering the island.  Unfortuately the Japanese left 3 weeks prior. Operation Cottage: A Cautionary Tale of Assumption and Perceptual Bias > National Defense University Press > Joint Force Quarterly 76 (ndu.edu)

Deploying troops into a chaotic situation with no plan leads to needless deaths.  We saw this over the 20yrs we were in Afghanistan- using a botched exit as a reason to send troops in all over again seems to be a foolish endeavor.  Dropping bombs would most likely kill the ones we are trying to save rather than the Taliban given their numbers.

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3 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

So you quote a reply of mine with a link in, and then post that.

You have now been placed on my ignore list. Manwon, you are long overdue it too, you are on it now as well.

Hi Cookie

Okay you have me on ignore and that is your choice. I am not sure why you are indignant about what I said, even if I count all the words in the article of the link you gave they do not add up to evidence of people getting killed. You may think I am indifferent or callous but bodies can be counted as evidence and so far all that you produced was and article about claims.

I also saw that el-midgetron and Acidhead gave links as well that suggest "credible sources" but what do you call credible in politics or media when there is still no physical evidence of bodies? Okay the chief of police as one but then a guy like me may take into consideration other aspects like the Taliban are not organized in the same way or for the same reasons as a regular military unit that has a code of conduct. These are drug lords no different than the cartels in Mexico and I won't discount that the chief of police was taken out for personal reasons rather than the American link and expect that the propaganda mill will be used to cloud a lot of what happens in Afghanistan. Yes there will be deaths and things will go back to the way they were for the most part.

When we first went in we increased opium production threefold in the first year and created a legal means of distribution through the drug industry and for the most part that production increase was due to the fact that the drug lords weren't killing each other and burning crops of competitors to dominate distribution.

Some regional Taliban will work independently to their own ends and may not feel obligated to the agreement made so expect internal conflicts as well that will likely get blamed on the pullout and became a continuing point of contention within American and world political arenas.

Not sure why you seem to think that me not jumping to every conclusion just because someone claimed something is a problem when I see other members here willing to go in and bomb the crap out of innocent women and children because they are offended that the Taliban will abuse them they are victims either way just different hands the blood is on. When and if actual physical evidence that the claims are true of maltreatment before the end of the month happens I will reconsider what has been presented and until then wait and see who lives up to their word in this whole matter. History shows that haste is not an advantage, Americans bombed the crap out of Iraq on the suspicion of WMDS that were never found so lets make sure our thump is not sitting on the nail head before hitting it with a hammer.

Edited by closed for business
the usual
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Edited by itsnotoutthere
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10 hours ago, closed for business said:

Hi Cookie

I am well aware of what Biden says, what I as if for a link to the executions of that I quoted you as having claimed

 

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