Capitol Police officer who shot Ashli Babbitt formally exonerated

[psyche101]

24 minutes ago, OverSword said:

I don't think it's tasteless to feel sorry for anyone that has lost a child or family member to tragedy, regardless if they killed themselves, were murdered, died in a car accident, etc.  I don't believe that one of those griefs is less than the other.   Sorry that you do. You're a terrific human being.

That's messed up. Explains a lot actually. 

I'd agree with the other poster. 

[+OverSword]

1 minute ago, psyche101 said:

It's not done by the department involved. There is a seperate internal division tasked with these incidents. 

Yeah.  They are independent within the department.  There are calls to have these thing done by a separate agency or by uninvolved, outside departments the last few years but that's as far as it's gotten so far.  As it is these thing are investigate by their colleagues and coworkers.

[+OverSword]

1 minute ago, psyche101 said:

That's messed up. Explains a lot actually. 

I'd agree with the other poster. 

No kidding 

[Golden Duck]

Just now, OverSword said:

Yeah.  They are independent within the department.  There are calls to have these thing done by a separate agency or by uninvolved, outside departments the last few years but that's as far as it's gotten so far.  As it is these thing are investigate by their colleagues and coworkers.

I guess that's true; but, I never really too "rat-catcher" to be a term of endearment.

[psyche101]

13 minutes ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

Unfortunately the Capitol Police are not subject to FOIA request so the results of the investigation and how the investigation was conducted may never be known. That is unless a judge rules that it be released.

Exonerating a police officer serves to remove liability away from the department he was assigned to. Like I stated before I'll wait until the results of the law suit are made public. Unless of course there's an out of court settlement.

Pretty sure I've mentioned several times now that there is a judge involved. There is a suit in progress to retrieve the report, it's overdue. The police have already said it would be produced so now they will have to produce it. 

It's a different case to the one where her partner is seeking over ten mil in compensation. 

There's a media release too.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/pr/department-justice-closes-investigation-death-ashli-babbitt

[Buzz_Light_Year]

6 minutes ago, Golden Duck said:

Can you explain the "ready to roll" instruction?

Quote

At one point John Sullivan, a controversial self-described liberal activist who shoots video at a range of protests and who filmed the footage on Wednesday, is heard warning an officer that additional rioters may be on their way. “We want you to go home,” he said, according to the video. “I’m recording. And there’s so many people. They’re gonna to push their way up here. Bro, I’ve seen people out there get hurt. I don’t want to see you get hurt.”

Sullivan provided the video to the The Post. On Jan. 14, after this story and video were published, federal authorities charged Sullivan with obstructing law enforcement, knowingly entering a restricted building and engaging in disorderly or disruptive conduct on the Capitol grounds.

Yeah I can explain the ready to roll comment. They were referring to the officers in tactical gear coming up the stairway behind the protestors. I doubt very seriously if he was referring to the protestors. If you'll notice he attends to his mike strapped to his jacket just before they walk away from the doors and after he adjust the mike he turns to another officer and makes the comment.

[Buzz_Light_Year]

4 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Pretty sure I've mentioned several times now that there is a judge involved. There is a suit in progress to retrieve the report, it's overdue. The police have already said it would be produced so now they will have to produce it. 

It's a different case to the one where her partner is seeking over ten mil in compensation. 

There's a media release too.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/pr/department-justice-closes-investigation-death-ashli-babbitt

Yes I'm aware of this but I want to know and I'm sure the people requesting the report want to know just how the investigation was conducted and by who.

If I were suing then I'd sue for an independent commission outside of the police department and outside the confines of the capitol to conduct their own investigation. The report of the incident will mean nothing unless discovery is allowed.

 

[+Paranoid Android]

  

7 hours ago, OverSword said:

Since hundreds of protesters were in fact, in the building, what makes you say there was no other option?  Seems to me there were several.

In an ideal world, the protesters would never have made it into the building. The newspapers and internet boards in the days leading up to the protest literally outlined the plans of the protesters (including blueprints and entrance points) and mocked them for thinking of trying. And yet on January 6 the police presence outside the capitol was virtually non-existent. I don't know who was responsible for the policing but I know some commissioner dude resigned because of it (somehow I expect he's just a patsy who took the fall, not the real cause). The following video by lawyer-turned-YouTuber Nate Broady goes into detail (if you don't want to watch the whole thing, from about 5:30-6:45 on the timecode you'll see my point, but the whole video is interesting, as well as part 1 of the video). 

I've seen conspiracies from both sides of the political aisle that try to blame the other side. I've seen conservatives blame the democrats for running the State and not putting the police numbers out, and I've seen progressives blame Trump, said he pressured the local law enforcement to stand down. Yet others have simply said that the police presence was small because the crowd was mostly white and therefore "racism". Whatever the case, inside the building when the officer shot Ashli Babbitt I would argue that it reestablished that "show of force" that should have been outside the building.

Had the police presence outside the capitol been at a level consistent with other protests, especially with the intel beforehand that laid out exactly what plans were out there, January 6 would be barely a footnote in history. As it was, Ashli Babbitt was the sad but unfortunate result of restoring order that day. If she is not shot then other people push through that entrance and who knows what happens after that. 
 

 

3 hours ago, Robotic Jew said:

Nope. No shout of racism. Just calling out the hypocrisy. If this is not considered "justified" then I would expect to see the same outrage over philando castille, ahmaud arbery, breonna talyor, and countless others but I don't. Why? 

The existence of a protest is not proof that the shootings were unjustified, and the lack of a protest does not therefore mean a shooting was justified. It just means that enough people were upset by certain events to go out and protest. Allow me an example - in June last year (right smack in the middle of the BLM protests), this video came across my news feed (ok, this is not the video I was looking for but it's the same situation, the video I originally saw it on is age restricted).

Another printed source for more details: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8429189/Teenager-attacked-gang-eight-girls-Melbourne-spoke-boy-one-liked.html

If you listen to the audio, you'll notice that police have chosen not to prosecute this gang. But more telling is what is NOT said in the video. The race of the victim and the race of the attackers is not mentioned anywhere in the video or the article. It's a white girl being attacked by a gang of black teenagers. Considering the timing (June 2020) if the skin colour was reversed, then regardless of why the attack happened it would have been front and centre in the news, and the media would have been running stories about how black people are not safe, how the authorities refuse to prosecute white gangs, yada yada. There may even have been more protests over how racist Australia is.

Instead, it was a footnote in the news cycle.

My point is that the media has more to do with political outrage than you may think. Even the names you mentioned to cite your position are contentious (I'd argue at least that Philando Castille and Breonna Taylor were victims of their own choices rather than racism, I don't know enough about Ahmaud Arbery to make a claim, though from what I can see this one might have some validity to it).

Anyway, these are just my thoughts on the matter.

~ Regards, PA

[psyche101]

13 minutes ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

Yes I'm aware of this but I want to know and I'm sure the people requesting the report want to know just how the investigation was conducted and by who.

If I were suing then I'd sue for an independent commission outside of the police department and outside the confines of the capitol to conduct their own investigation. The report of the incident will mean nothing unless discovery is allowed.

 

The verdict was reached because it was determined that the officer did not violate 18 U.S. Code § 242 - Deprivation of rights under color of law. 

Do you feel that is not the case and he has violated that code?

[Buzz_Light_Year]

3 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

The verdict was reached because it was determined that the officer did not violate 18 U.S. Code § 242 - Deprivation of rights under color of law. 

Do you feel that is not the case and he has violated that code?

Would you entertain an independent commission report that said he did?

 

[psyche101]

Just now, Buzz_Light_Year said:

Would you entertain an independent commission report that said he did?

Depends on who did it. 

[Buzz_Light_Year]

1 minute ago, psyche101 said:

Depends on who did it. 

Exactly my point.

[psyche101]

1 minute ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

Exactly my point.

Well a report by Alex Jones isn't going to convince anyone that has a working brain is it. It depends on who does the report because of the qualification of the person reporting. If they do violate laws to protect a colleague then they are likely to suffer great consequences if caught. I'd say that's motivation to maintain a narrative that can be justified at the very least. 

The standard that the decision was made on had been quoted. Wouldn't that be a more sensible place to start rather than assuming it's a cover up from the get go? 

[Buzz_Light_Year]

4 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

Well a report by Alex Jones isn't going to convince anyone that has a working brain is it. It depends on who does the report because of the qualification of the person reporting. If they do violate laws to protect a colleague then they are likely to suffer great consequences if caught. I'd say that's motivation to maintain a narrative that can be justified at the very least. 

The standard that the decision was made on had been quoted. Wouldn't that be a more sensible place to start rather than assuming it's a cover up from the get go? 

We're talking about Washington D.C. right. That's what I thought.

As I have stated I'll wait for the results of the lawsuit.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Buzz_Light_Year

[psyche101]

1 minute ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

We're talking about Washington D.C. right. That's what I thought.

So your are convinced it's a cover up and now you're seeking evidence to support your conclusion?

[Buzz_Light_Year]

5 minutes ago, psyche101 said:

So your are convinced it's a cover up and now you're seeking evidence to support your conclusion?

I guess you'll just have to determine that for yourself. Not that you already haven't done so.

[Vorg]

Trump has said Ashli was murdered, so the sheep go baa baa.

[psyche101]

11 minutes ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

I guess you'll just have to determine that for yourself. Not that you already haven't done so.

I don't have to determine anything. A discussion like this could be cut down by half if you just got to your point straight up instead of meandering around it. It seems pretty obvious now that you want a different outcome to that which has been provided and are seeking something to support your personal view.

Why don't you just show what part of the code that you feel was violated? It's noted as the reason for exhonoration. Or is that too sane by American standards these days? 

[psyche101]

13 minutes ago, South Alabam said:

Trump has said Ashli was murdered, so the sheep go baa baa.

Looking very much like that. 

[Golden Duck]

8 minutes ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

Yeah I can explain the ready to roll comment. They were referring to the officers in tactical gear coming up the stairway behind the protestors. I doubt very seriously if he was referring to the protestors. If you'll notice he attends to his mike strapped to his jacket just before they walk away from the doors and after he adjust the mike he turns to another officer and makes the comment.

So like you said before:

2 hours ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

... for some reason they just stepped aside ...

And you know the reason.

[aztek]

how do we know for sure he gave her any warning? is it on a video?  if not, then it is just his words, an independent investigation needs to be conducted, oh wait, cops will not let anyone else investigate, they will arrest anyone for trying, and charge with obstruction of justice, and courts will be on their side.  

may be the UN should  investigate usa police misconduct, i know right now, no cop can arrest anyone from the UN, cuz of diplomatic immunity, for any crime. so  the UN can  really conduct independent investigation, and really punish the guilty ones, and not worry about any repercussions from our legal system,  hell we have the HQ in NYC, we pay major part of the UN, 22%.  we might as well use it for very real and needed purpose.

but then what will keep in check an international army that is above our legal system? 

Edited August 26, 2021 by aztek

[jmccr8]

2 minutes ago, aztek said:

how do we know for sure he gave her any warning? is it on a video?

Hi Aztek

What do you think the 3 cops standing in front of the door were doing asking if anyone wanted a big mac?

[aztek]

12 minutes ago, closed for business said:

Hi Aztek

What do you think the 3 cops standing in front of the door were doing asking if anyone wanted a big mac?

yes, that is exactly what i think, you got me, lmao. 

[Alpha_Q]

2 hours ago, OverSword said:

I don't think it's tasteless to feel sorry for anyone that has lost a child or family member to tragedy, regardless if they killed themselves, were murdered, died in a car accident, etc.  I don't believe that one of those griefs is less than the other.   Sorry that you do. You're a terrific human being.

I don't doubt their grief. I do, however, feel less sympathy for the parents of a grown adult who was killed climbing through a smashed window to get into the center of the US Capitol building than I do the parents of children killed while going to elementary school. 

Mist be a character flaw.

[+Paranoid Android]

17 minutes ago, Alpha_Q said:

I don't doubt their grief. I do, however, feel less sympathy for the parents of a grown adult who was killed climbing through a smashed window to get into the center of the US Capitol building than I do the parents of children killed while going to elementary school. 

Mist be a character flaw.

Is this how you feel about all criminals who are shot dead by police? Or is it only the ones who commit crimes in the context of a capitol protest? I don't know your views, I'm asking to seek clarification.