The Harm Done By Religion

[Crazy Horse]

On 11/11/2021 at 9:09 AM, XenoFish said:

Excellent. Then let's make a truce. I'll put you right back on ignore and you quit quoting me. I'll let others deal with you. 

Is that a deal? 

If you don't want to talk to me, then don't..

Your choice..

As ever.

[Crazy Horse]

15 minutes ago, The_Phantom_Stranger said:

You have to remember that in these days any spiritual experience is a sign of insanity.

Hoshea 9

 

The above could be taken in more than one way..

The fact is, that the bad are seen as good, medicine makes folk sick, educations makes us stupid, and defence attacks.

And the ego is seen as real.

Everything good has been turned upside down, inside-out, and back to front.

Therefore, one may only know the truth for oneself.

 

[The_Phantom_Stranger]

1 minute ago, Crazy Horse said:

The above could be taken in more than one way..

The fact is, that the bad are seen as good, medicine makes folk sick, educations makes us stupid, and defence attacks.

And the ego is seen as real.

Everything good has been turned upside down, inside-out, and back to front.

Therefore, one may only know the truth for oneself.

 

It can be taken more than one way. You might see it as God has cursed the Earth again that spirituality is considered insane. Nobody else can see it but you, so it is insane. There are also a multitude of lying spirits that can be used to send people down the wrong path. Essentially you'd think God would have used this against his enemies, but he ends up cursing himself calling himself insane.

The other interpretation after closer inspection is that it is a symptom of society and a great growing hatred among people. 

[Crazy Horse]

1 minute ago, The_Phantom_Stranger said:

It can be taken more than one way. You might see it as God has cursed the Earth again that spirituality is considered insane. Nobody else can see it but you, so it is insane. There are also a multitude of lying spirits that can be used to send people down the wrong path. Essentially you'd think God would have used this against his enemies, but he ends up cursing himself calling himself insane.

The other interpretation after closer inspection is that it is a symptom of society and a great growing hatred among people. 

From the idea, axiom, that all is One..

Then the idea of GOD cursing anything, or having any enemies, is actually insane.

For one to really enjoy the light, the warmth of the sun, then darkness and cold must also exist.

Therefore, the Kali Yuga is here to lead, prompt and inspire one towards the next Golden Age.

 

[eight bits]

OK, Crazy Horse. If your ego ever feels like taking a break from trying to convince @Sherapy that you don't have one, I really did think that this was discussable:

3 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

All history is a myth, even the real bits.

Whether Jesus was a real man who lived, or not, is besides the point.

Its the message with-in that particular story that's important.

Of course many believers argue that what matters about Jesus are the teachings attributed to him. Other believers argue that what matters is that he really lived, so that he could really die (for them), with the teachings of at best secondary importance. Those folks might even acknowledge that the teachings attributed to Jesus aren't really original with him.

You seem to have staked out a novel middle ground: yes, it's the teachings, but the surrounding story is important, too, even if it is factually false. I'm unsure that's completely unprecedented (Thomas Brodie, a respected scholar and Catholic priest who "came out of the closet" about his disbelief in a historical Jesus and was fired for it), but your statement seems especially clear to me.

Why, in your view, would the story be mission critical, even if it were false? Surely not

3 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

All men die, what is left behind is their stories, there messages.

because fictional men don't die.

Also, while I see the issue in

3 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

All history is a myth, even the real bits.

I don't see how it can be literally so. Myths are a lot like interpretations of real past events, and a lot of what professional historians are paid to do is to interpret real past events, not just report them. But that's not all they're paid to do. They also investigate evidence to infer what happened in the human past.

Calvin Coolidge was president of the United States, from the death of President Harding in 1923 through his own second term which ended in 1929. That is history, and I can't find anything mythical in that.

Edited November 12, 2021 by eight bits

[+Sherapy]

5 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

My ego is dying a death.

So lets repeat..

In this state of altered consciousness, there are no thoughts, no conclusions, no discernment or judgment, there are no feelings of anger or hatefulness, and so one may safely say, that there is no ego whatsoever. And therefore, calmness and peacefulness become the natural state of ones being too.

Now, because this one is not Self-realised fully, the explanation may sound egotistical, but that is my trying to explain this altered state of consciousness, not the actual state of awareness itself.  

Please try to put your ego to one side, for a moment, and at least try to see the difference.

 

What meditation practice isn’t: it is “not” a particular or specific state of being where you close your eyes and sit in lotus and repeatedly go to this special place or in your case connect to some kind of god essence. The big glaring point here is your ego is approaching it this way, you have an attachment to this particular delusion according to your posts, the objective  it is to get to and stay in this special place and preach to others how they too can be as special as you. You have an attachment, it is what it is. In and of itself it isn’t right or wrong, it is only feedback. 

 

 This “attachment” is to your own personal hallucination.. This is normal and common for a novice who is ego bound, I have been there myself in the early days.  Again not good or bad just an FYI, if you practice meditation consistently and long enough you will eventually figure all this out for yourself. 
 

 

Being in the “present moment’ and this is important, one simply has an open awareness to whatever shows up ( acceptance), there is no preference for a certain experience, other than what is. and then one navigates from there. Sure at times one might be in a calm relaxed state, maybe even be in the “zone” at times, but one isn’t attaching to anything, one simply embraces the present moment as is and then one moves forward from there. 
 

Some good advice once offered to me, “you get what you get and you go from there.”
 

All the best, CH. 
 

 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Sherapy

[+Sherapy]

5 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

You have no idea of what was gained, realised, during certain meditations.

To think otherwise is the height of the ego.

Peacefulness is only the after affect of meditation, of any good behaviour in-fact.

In this altered state of consciousness, there are no thoughts and therefore no attachments. No ego. only the present moment and one-pointed awareness.

The way I am trying to describe it, may well be slightly egotistical, (maybe, maybe not), but the actual state of consciousness itself, (the thing we were discussing) is in no way, shape, or form, the ego. that has gone away, getting weaker, until it completely vanishes forever.

You are a Zen practitioner, have you not realised these things for yourself?

CH, feedback is only an opportunity for you to explore further or not.  The choice is always your own. There really isn’t anything to defend or rationalize.

 

FYI, one can deep breathe their way to calm and relaxed too, rather quickly. Breathing stimulates the parasympathetic nervous system it is a staple (tool) taught in (MBSMT) Mindfulness Based Stress Management Therapy. The most challenging aspect is remembering to use deep breathing .
 

https://www.utoledo.edu/studentaffairs/counseling/anxietytoolbox/breathingandrelaxation.html

All the best to you. 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Sherapy

[+Sherapy]

14 hours ago, eight bits said:

I've been using "A repply to a query which either provides the information sought or else states that the information is unavailable from the respondent."

The information sought is of a numeric data type, so green is a type mismatch and so unresponsive. One million is of an admissible data type, but so remote from the correct value that I don't see how it would come up. A responsive answer need not be factually correct, if that's what the example is supposed to explore.

Well so far I've proposed several remedies for the problem, including allowing me simply to volunteer the information which I need to communicate in order for me to be confident that I have provided the information sought  ("No with an explanation" isn't yes, no or I don't know). I've also pointed to situations where no problem arises with a no answer to the question (the purpose of the query is to classify me as a theist non-theist, but nothing more specific than that, or the question is one of a suite of questions from which an adequately faithful representation of my actual state of belief emerges).

So far as I can see, any proposed remedy will do the trick, and my intention is for the inquirer to take their pick. Many paths to the same peak, and all of that.

So far as I know, I don't have any quarrel with @onlookerofmayhem who was, in any case, sorting out with @Sherapy the meets and bounds of something she had said about on her own atheism, and how it became something else as she realized more about what was proven and what was still an open question. So far as I can see, they succeeded in sorting that out.

However, this is not my first rodeo. I have posted many times over my 13+ years here about aspects of this problem. Let me just say that some of my co-discussants from time to time were less classy than onlooker or Sherapy. Some of them by a lot. Meh; onlooker and Sherapy set a high bar.

Kinda muddy, but that's a variant on the judge's or lawyer's thing of prefacing the question or instruction with "if you know, ..." That, too, is a solution to the problem, "If you have an opinion, then do you believe ...?" or ask as a separate question, "Do you have an opinion about whether or not ...?" If no, then move on,; if yes, then ask "Do you believe that Paris is bigger than Boston?"

It's not that the problem is difficult to solve, just that people ought (IMO) to pick a way to solve it and not just leave it hanging out there.

If somebody asks me "Do you believe in God?" or "...that Paris is bigger than Boston?" then I would probably infer that they are asking me on the premise that I have an opinion about the subject, until and unless they indicate otherwise.

I could be wrong, and I am open to the possibility that they are only interested in those who answer yes, and simply don;t care what those who answer no believe or don't believe apart from that. But just in case, if they don't indicate that to me, then I might volunteer that I have no settled opinion at all.

Yes, but all the information I'm adding (if that is the soltuion being implemented) is very brief, and just as focused on the subject matter of the question as yes or no would be.

I can't imagine to whom your referring, but it sounds like this other person posts lengthy expositions that are sparingly related to the topic of the thread, if they relate at all.

Actually, your purgatory sounds like my life. I do get to bring a dog along on these walks, right?

Indeed, you are right, and I appreciate onlookers feedback that my comment on my personal opinion about my expression of Atheism came off like an overgeneralization. 
 

I humbly stand corrected.  Much gratitude to Onlooker. 
 

Great post, eighty. 

Edited November 12, 2021 by Sherapy

[jmccr8]

On 11/10/2021 at 5:03 PM, Mr Walker said:

Correct 

One can

Know something exists.  (quite easy to establish with evidences) 

Know something doesn't exist (much harder to prove) 

Believe something exists 

Believe something does not exist 

 Deliberately  choose not to form a belief/nonbelief  on a question.

Hi Walker

You cannot believe something exists and does not exist the only reasonable answer is I don't know.

On 11/10/2021 at 5:03 PM, Mr Walker said:

I said  i was agnostic on different issues  (using agnostic in it's wider sense ) 

Yes you have said you are agnostic, however, you are a firm promoter of Christian beliefs that you claim to not live by but do live by. You also have a god of your own design that you defend rigorously and try to prove is real so I do not see where you have displayed any aspects of being an agnostic in more than the last decade of posting.

On 11/10/2021 at 5:03 PM, Mr Walker said:

I know "god" exists,

Spoken like a true agnostic.

On 11/10/2021 at 5:03 PM, Mr Walker said:

Likewise i cant believe I had a mother or disbelieve I had a mother.

I think given your position on clones that that would/could be a possibility, you had a mom and your clone did not it has a memory of your mom and may not believe that it had a mom but you believe that you would be both your clone and yourself.

Your argument is ridiculous and I am not trying to be hard on you by stating this. There is not much point in rehashing your defense to me as it has already been a well worn path to nowhere.

[+joc]

12 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

All history is a myth, even the real bits.

Whether Jesus was a real man who lived, or not, is besides the point.

Its the message with-in that particular story that's important.

All men die, what is left behind is their stories, there messages.

And those stories may uplift the human spirit, or keep it ignorant.

 

Ah...I get it now.  That makes perfect sense.  I am into the truth...you are into feel-good-isms.   Explains everything my friend...thanks!

[jmccr8]

8 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

I think given your position on clones

Hi Walker

Just thought that I would add that if I had clones of me I would let them live the lives that my interests gave them and let them have those experiences as their own without me.

[Mr Walker]

9 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

You cannot believe something exists and does not exist the only reasonable answer is I don't know.

Yes you have said you are agnostic, however, you are a firm promoter of Christian beliefs that you claim to not live by but do live by. You also have a god of your own design that you defend rigorously and try to prove is real so I do not see where you have displayed any aspects of being an agnostic in more than the last decade of posting.

Spoken like a true agnostic.

I think given your position on clones that that would/could be a possibility, you had a mom and your clone did not it has a memory of your mom and may not believe that it had a mom but you believe that you would be both your clone and yourself.

Your argument is ridiculous and I am not trying to be hard on you by stating this. There is not much point in rehashing your defense to me as it has already been a well worn path to nowhere.

You can either believe something exists, or you can believe it does not

You cant positively believe both, although you can maintain an open mind, which is open to both belief and disbelief 

If you construct a concept of "not knowing and choosing not to believe, or disbelieve, then you are agnostic on a position. 

I am agnostic on anything I don't know 

However i know a being we call god exists (like i know my wife exists)  so cant either believe or disbelieve 

You cant believe or disbelieve in anything you KNOW exists   eg i can not believe or disbelieve that my wife exists, because i know she does. 

yes i promote ANY faith or religious practice of a positive constructive nature because ( due to evolution) such faith/belief lengthens our lives and gives us belter physical and psychological health.

However ANY good religion or belief does that  I live a " christian life only because i live in a Christian  community. If l  lived in a  pagan Buddhist Jewish  Islamic or other community i would be one of them in practice  Australia is based on Christian laws and moralities and its easy  (and beneficial) to adapt to those even as an atheist

I dont know why you find this concept so hard to get. 

You cannot believe you had a mother because you KNOIW you had one  Belief and disbelief are mental constructs which cannot rationally exist where you have knowledge. 

if you were  a clone it might be different. You might never be sure if you had a biological "mother,"  and so could believe as you wished .  

Belief and disbelief re both impossible /illogical regarding anything you know.

Eg you cant believe the moon is made of cheese , but equally you cant believe it is not.

You KNOW what it is made of.  There is no room for belief or disbelief.

(unless "you" (generic)  have a severe mental disorder, then you can believe anything at all.  )

[Mr Walker]

1 hour ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

Just thought that I would add that if I had clones of me I would let them live the lives that my interests gave them and let them have those experiences as their own without me.

To an extent , so would i. Given that, none of us could be compelled by the others 

Yet everyone of them would be me, and thus  likely to want the same things I do . 

I would hope that all the clones would  download their memories on a regular basis , and that these could be shared by any one of the clones who wanted to experience what the others had experienced and learn /feel what hey had learned /felt. 

[jmccr8]

30 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

You can either believe something exists, or you can believe it does not

Hi Walker

Much to my regret I am responding, yes and you cannot believe in both at the same time. Hense the I don't know.

32 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

You cant positively believe both, although you can maintain an open mind, which is open to both belief and disbelief 

If you construct a concept of "not knowing and choosing not to believe, or disbelieve, then you are agnostic on a position. 

I am agnostic on anything I don't know 

You don't know is all you need to know and say unless you have credible sources that support an opinion. You just expressed a whole lot of I don't know just in 2 sentences never mind going through the manifesto you have written here over the years.

36 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

You cant believe or disbelieve in anything you KNOW exists 

There has to be a reason to know it exists and a means by which to measure it's impact before you get to know Jack in the first place.

39 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

yes i promote ANY faith

If you have at any time advocated as much energy into defending all religious thinking then please do link me to that multitude of of equal portions so I can review your apt impersonations. Sorry that should read apparent interpretations.

46 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

However ANY good religion or belief does that  I live a " christian life only because i live in a Christian  community.

Exactly, you live in a Christian community and choose to reject them yet preach the benefits that it endows. Seems like empty words like a drunk telling someone else how bad drinking is for them and ignore it personally. What is your point if you do not live up to the standard you preach to us lesser beings?

51 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

I dont know why you find this concept so hard to get. 

Likely because you really don't understand the significance of the constructs you propose or give any credence to constructive rebuttals that you fail to take seriously.

55 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

You cannot believe you had a mother because you KNOIW you had one 

If all I could know is that I had a mother means nothing if I have no experience of having a mother unless it is to state a fact. I had a mother, who was she? I don't know.

1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

if you were  a clone it might be different. You might never be sure if you had a biological "mother,"  and so could believe as you wished .  

Yes it could believe and that is all it would be as anyone involved in the process yourself included would know that it did not have a mother especially if it was 3D printed but that is not what this thread is about and will not pursue this further.

1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

Eg you cant believe the moon is made of cheese , but equally you cant believe it is not.

You KNOW what it is made of.  There is no room for belief or disbelief.

There is not much reason to believe anything about the moon other than I can see it and so can others.

[jmccr8]

1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

To an extent

Hi Walker

And this is where we differ in opinion if you do not accept that a clone has rights beyond your personal dictations.

Edited November 13, 2021 by jmccr8
not sure

[+Nuclear Wessel]

1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

However i know a being we call god exists (like i know my wife exists)  so cant either believe or disbelieve 

[Mr Walker]

3 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

Much to my regret I am responding, yes and you cannot believe in both at the same time. Hense the I don't know.

You don't know is all you need to know and say unless you have credible sources that support an opinion. You just expressed a whole lot of I don't know just in 2 sentences never mind going through the manifesto you have written here over the years.

There has to be a reason to know it exists and a means by which to measure it's impact before you get to know Jack in the first place.

If you have at any time advocated as much energy into defending all religious thinking then please do link me to that multitude of of equal portions so I can review your apt impersonations. Sorry that should read apparent interpretations.

Exactly, you live in a Christian community and choose to reject them yet preach the benefits that it endows. Seems like empty words like a drunk telling someone else how bad drinking is for them and ignore it personally. What is your point if you do not live up to the standard you preach to us lesser beings?

Likely because you really don't understand the significance of the constructs you propose or give any credence to constructive rebuttals that you fail to take seriously.

If all I could know is that I had a mother means nothing if I have no experience of having a mother unless it is to state a fact. I had a mother, who was she? I don't know.

Yes it could believe and that is all it would be as anyone involved in the process yourself included would know that it did not have a mother especially if it was 3D printed but that is not what this thread is about and will not pursue this further.

There is not much reason to believe anything about the moon other than I can see it and so can others.

There are two different issues here 

A person will not KNOW a lot of things, but most humans chose to construct beliefs and disbeliefs about the things they dont know.

I deliberately choose not to to do this. 

For most people,  lack of knowldgeOr is not a satisfactory mental state. The y need the certainty of belief or disbelief 

Thus, almost everyone who does not know has a belief position of belief or disbelief about many things. 

So no for most people " I don't know ." on ANY issue is simply unsatisfactory.

They  start with, "I don't know" and then add" BUT I believe ............  (or   don't believe )

Ive always defended ALL positive faiths and beliefs. Ive many times said I could belong to any faith, or simply have a personal individual relationship with god 

Ive pointed out that the medical benefits of faith and religion come from  any/all positive faiths and religions 

BUT as many people have pointed out, the arguments here are almost always about Christianity because tha t is the religion mos t posters grew up with and came to love or hate

It is the ONLY religion of any size wherever I have lived   Ie people around here are either christian or agnostic/atheist .

There simply aren't more than a few a dozen people from  non christian faiths,  and no non christian places of worship. 

lol no I dont reject Christianity 

I am a social christian following the  christian based laws and customs of my country and community 

BUT I see all religions (which do no harm)  as equal in worth

About half my family and friends are christian from  a few   quite serious ones to   many more just social/nominal ones. The rest are atheists/agnostics  I get on well with them all 

I am not perfect but i do live by the values i believe in.

I dont drink smoke or take drugs. I am scrupulously honest.

  I treat all people as equals I respect and love those around  me and i help them wherever i can ie i live by the social gospel of Christ based on love and  the equality of mankind  Iam faithfultomywife of almost 50 yeras  I also integrate beliefs from  other faiths including Buddhism Jainism Judaism  Islam  and geanism   and even a little paganism.  

I never offer violence of action or words except in the defence of the vulnerable and the innocent 

Certain behaviours and lifestyles are safer and more constructive than others

  And I admit its easier to live by them as i get older  but ive tried to do so all my life.

Its interesting that the precepts of humanism, which I was raised on,  are identical to the precepts of many religions  

Actually you sound a little like me 

You chose not to believe/disbelieve in things and think tha t "I  don't Know." is enough.

However for 90 % of humans it is NOT enough.

 

 

 

[Mr Walker]

3 hours ago, Nuclear Wessel said:

lol Yes, I know you have constructed a disbelief in such things, and so believe it is impossible for anyone to know a real and powerful, interactive being,  who protects, informs/teaches, and empowers a human being.

My wife and I would have died without its direct intervention and protection, and it is always with me  In a cognitive attachment.(a religious person might say, "in the spirit")  although it only manifests physically  in times of need. 

I feel a little sorry for you, but  there is nothing I can do about it. 

I hope that, should it ever offer it's protection and empowerment to you in a time of need, that you will have an open mind, listen to it's advice, and  accept it's help.  

It can make the difference between survival and death in a real crisis or danger, but you need to listen to it, and act on it's advice, sometimes immediately.  

[Mr Walker]

3 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Walker

And this is where we differ in opinion if you do not accept that a clone has rights beyond your personal dictations.

I was stating that t i agree that a clone has rights (I've always argued for the rights of any/all self  aware beings, both natural eg non human animals and artificial eg androids, )  and could not be compelled to act as I wanted it to, anymore than I can be compelled by another.

  BUT a clone like I am speaking of, which also has my mind replicated and  transferred to its brain will BE me, and as I pointed out, will almost certainly think and act as I would do.

[eight bits]

4 hours ago, jmccr8 said:

Much to my regret I am responding, yes and you cannot believe in both at the same time. Hense the I don't know.

It is true that if you were consciously aware of accepting two incompatible propositions, then you would probably recognize that state of belief as a species of error and you might even experience discomfort (cognitive dissonance).

On the other hand ... I am reasonably sure that I have some many incompatible acceptance pairs, since it is fairly common. Socrates was able to dine out on his ability to detect that situation and not because he hung around with intellectual flyweights.

There's also no known biological reason why nearly coherent belief states are the only kind physiologically possible. There is a price to be paid for tolerating them, but even then not always ... the same person can be described as "tall" or "short" (a sports journalist when interviewing horse-racing jockeys compared with when interviewing basketball players).

The example probably doesn't "bother" anybody, because we can explain our use of the incompatible descriptions of the same physical fact. Unfortunately, one form of "explanation" is rationalization, and rationalization is a frequently observed response to cognitive dissonance. Thus, rationalization becomes a practical way to accept incompatible beliefs consciously.

Sorting all this out would be fascinating, but a tad remote from the topic of the thread except that promoting bogus health advice based on religious apologetics is harm, and Christian anthropology (= religious theories of human nature) can lead to harm just like any other crackpot theory if it is applied to anything serious. And of course "false flag" apologetics is harm, too.

Edited November 13, 2021 by eight bits

[Crazy Horse]

20 hours ago, eight bits said:

OK, Crazy Horse. If your ego ever feels like taking a break from trying to convince @Sherapy that you don't have one, I really did think that this was discussable:

Of course many believers argue that what matters about Jesus are the teachings attributed to him. Other believers argue that what matters is that he really lived, so that he could really die (for them), with the teachings of at best secondary importance. Those folks might even acknowledge that the teachings attributed to Jesus aren't really original with him.

You seem to have staked out a novel middle ground: yes, it's the teachings, but the surrounding story is important, too, even if it is factually false. I'm unsure that's completely unprecedented (Thomas Brodie, a respected scholar and Catholic priest who "came out of the closet" about his disbelief in a historical Jesus and was fired for it), but your statement seems especially clear to me.

Why, in your view, would the story be mission critical, even if it were false? Surely not

because fictional men don't die.

Also, while I see the issue in

I don't see how it can be literally so. Myths are a lot like interpretations of real past events, and a lot of what professional historians are paid to do is to interpret real past events, not just report them. But that's not all they're paid to do. They also investigate evidence to infer what happened in the human past.

Calvin Coolidge was president of the United States, from the death of President Harding in 1923 through his own second term which ended in 1929. That is history, and I can't find anything mythical in that.

Unfortunately, I still have an ego, but it is dying a death because of this particular meditation practice. And it is this state of consciousness that I was trying to explain. The actual way of explaining this may have been slightly egotistical perhaps, but the actual state of awareness, wasn't. Please try to see the difference.

As for the actual teachings of Christ, there do seem to be influenced by dharmic, Buddhist traditions, and from other myths too. But in any event, they were a place apart from the "stones for bread" being othered-up by the religious men of the time. Christ basically taught that you are divine, and that one may know this divinity, and that one shall live in abundance and do even greater deeds than I, if one can love GOD, neighbour, and self.

Christ crucified his ego upon the cross of fear and desire.

And was reborn.

Before that, John baptised him into the Holy Spirit...

Anyway, the message of Christ is mission critical because it may lead one to an awakened state of being, (see above) for anyone. This message was made of secondary importance, replaced by this idea that one only had to believe in Jesus to be saved. The Cathers, for example, lived Christs message and knew GOD for themselves, and were promptly murdered for their purity.

The reason I say that all history is false, is because it is all an illusion, ego stories, nothing more.

And so, whether a man lived, or was made-up, is besides the point.

The point being that some stories may lead one to liberation from pain, suffering, ignorance and even death.

The Good News is, that anyone may know the truth for oneself.

Your choice.

As always.

 

 

[Crazy Horse]

19 hours ago, Sherapy said:

What meditation practice isn’t: it is “not” a particular or specific state of being where you close your eyes and sit in lotus and repeatedly go to this special place or in your case connect to some kind of god essence. The big glaring point here is your ego is approaching it this way, you have an attachment to this particular delusion according to your posts, the objective  it is to get to and stay in this special place and preach to others how they too can be as special as you. You have an attachment, it is what it is. In and of itself it isn’t right or wrong, it is only feedback. 

 

 This “attachment” is to your own personal hallucination.. This is normal and common for a novice who is ego bound, I have been there myself in the early days.  Again not good or bad just an FYI, if you practice meditation consistently and long enough you will eventually figure all this out for yourself. 
 

 

Being in the “present moment’ and this is important, one simply has an open awareness to whatever shows up ( acceptance), there is no preference for a certain experience, other than what is. and then one navigates from there. Sure at times one might be in a calm relaxed state, maybe even be in the “zone” at times, but one isn’t attaching to anything, one simply embraces the present moment as is and then one moves forward from there. 
 

Some good advice once offered to me, “you get what you get and you go from there.”
 

All the best, CH. 
 

 

No, my ego/mind, wasn't expecting anything.

It was actually a surprise.

So please stop assuming so much.

And besides, if there is any attachment, to anything, then this state is impossible to realise.

Although I can agree with your last point, about being open to what shows up, and accepting it. 

There is no preference, that was you judging me from an impossible position, again.

I hope you know the Truth, Love, and Peace, sooner, rather than later..

All the best.

 

 

[Crazy Horse]

19 hours ago, Sherapy said:

CH, feedback is only an opportunity for you to explore further or not.  The choice is always your own. There really isn’t anything to defend or rationalize.

 

FYI, one can deep breathe their way to calm and relaxed too, rather quickly. Breathing stimulates the parasympathetic nervous system it is a staple (tool) taught in (MBSMT) Mindfulness Based Stress Management Therapy. The most challenging aspect is remembering to use deep breathing .
 

https://www.utoledo.edu/studentaffairs/counseling/anxietytoolbox/breathingandrelaxation.html

All the best to you. 

Feedback works both ways Sheri..

And this state of being is far more than a calm and relaxed state.

It is a non-attached state of at-one-ment, where the ego no longer excists, no preference, no expectations, just an awakened state of being....or at least a little taste of THAT.

And, any one may know this for oneself.

Your choice.

As always..

[+Nuclear Wessel]

Nevermind.

Edited November 13, 2021 by Nuclear Wessel

[Will Due]

 

Enlightenment isn't the thing. Desire is though.

 

"The law of the spirit which decrees that to him who has shall be given so that he shall have an abundance; but from him who has not shall be taken away even that which he has. Therefore will I henceforth speak to the people much in parables to the end that our friends and those who desire to know the truth may find that which they seek, while our enemies and those who love not the truth may hear without understanding. Many of these people follow not in the way of the truth. The prophet did, indeed, describe all such undiscerning souls when he said: ‘For this people’s heart has waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed lest they should discern the truth and understand it in their hearts.'