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The Harm Done By Religion


Doug1066
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1 minute ago, larryp said:

Where did DNA come from?

God got a little frisky one night with Mother Earth. 

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3 hours ago, Phantom309 said:

Truth you say....?

Science - Relgion.jpg

 

I suppose the word truth can be used as a synonym for Fact ?   It just seems to me that it might be more 'correct' to say that 'science' is committed to finding Facts rather than truths?  Truth is more a philosophical concept, than a scientific certainty? 

 

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5 minutes ago, lightly said:

I suppose the word truth can be used as a synonym for Fact ?   It just seems to me that it might be more 'correct' to say that 'science' is committed to finding Facts rather than truths?  Truth is more a philosophical concept, than a scientific certainty? 

 

Indeed, committed to showing the facts that support a hypothesis is a much better way to articulate this then stating that Science is about the “truth.” 
 

It is an important distinction one I am glad you refined, lightly.

 

Are you gonna subscribe to UM, no pressure, just curious. :D

Edited by Sherapy
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Science is about observable, quantifiable and verifiable data. "Truth" is a proactive decision one makes about something, not something itself.

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Just now, Sherapy said:

Indeed, committed to showing the facts that support a hypothesis is a much better way to articulate this then stating that Science is about the “truth.” 
 

It is an important distinction one I am glad you refined, lightly.

 

Are you gonna subscribe to UM, no pressure just curious. :D

LOL ..  I dunno sweetie !   It sort of has me freaked out !!   Plus, it costs MONEY?!?!    Spending money I don't need to is sort of against my religion ! :P .      I'll have to think about it..and figure it out.   To be honest  It seems sort of divisive to me..an Us and Them sort of thing?    

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11 minutes ago, lightly said:

LOL ..  I dunno sweetie !   It sort of has me freaked out !!   Plus, it costs MONEY?!?!    Spending money I don't need to is sort of against my religion ! :P .      I'll have to think about it..and figure it out.   To be honest  It seems sort of divisive to me..an Us and Them sort of thing?    

Thank you for sharing, For me, it just helps Garret upgrade UM as advertising isn’t always dependable. Another way to see this is a way to give back and grow the UM platform. One can even just subscribe for a month and cancel the subscription. Saru, made it very clear that whether one subscribes or not it will in no way affect their UM standing.  
 

For me, it was a no brainer, I am pleased to help Garrett he is a good egg. Just my 2 cents you are my friend no matter what. :wub:
 

 

Edited by Sherapy
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I dearly love the place and all the people who 'occupy' it..  I guess a big heartfelt THANKYOU..  won't pay for upgrades huh?  

  I have  a generous spirit.. It's my penny pinching nature which will require some time and patience.  :P.    

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20 minutes ago, lightly said:

I dearly love the place and all the people who 'occupy' it..  I guess a big heartfelt THANKYOU..  won't pay for upgrades huh?  

  I have  a generous spirit.. It's my penny pinching nature which will require some time and patience.  :P.    

Lightly, it is $2.50 or $5.00, we aren’t talking much.:P and one can cancel after 1 month, we all know Garret will walk anyone through the process to cancel too.  Bless Garret’s heart and the mods who have donated their time, taken our computer questions, phone questions etc. mediated for us over the years. 
 

I want to see Garrett be able to keep UM thriving, my friends are here. :wub:
 

 

Edited by Sherapy
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$ 2.50 !      ...I'll give it serious consideration.  :P     ( I tried to check it out, and got the Susieice spin. )

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1 hour ago, lightly said:

I suppose the word truth can be used as a synonym for Fact ?   It just seems to me that it might be more 'correct' to say that 'science' is committed to finding Facts rather than truths?  Truth is more a philosophical concept, than a scientific certainty? 

 

 Fortunately, the "facts" often lead to the truth about things...........:D

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1 hour ago, lightly said:

$ 2.50 !      ...I'll give it serious consideration.  :P     ( I tried to check it out, and got the Susieice spin. )

Ask Saru for help:P:wub:

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7 hours ago, danydandan said:

I just came to post because a little birdie told me you were back. 

 

 

You mean little birds talk to you too? And all along I thought I was a singularity, one of a kind, as far as birds go.  I was wondering where you were, as I too came back here to once again "talk" with the few friends I had made on this forum. Hope all is well with you. And to give the impression that our greetings are somewhat on-topic, I'll ask if religion has done you any harm, lately? As a believer, I not only hope for your well being, but I also pray to the GOOD God to make it so. And not to wash all my dirty laundry in public, I'll just say that I have not been so well, and therefore my sudden and lengthy absence from this forum. Apparently not many pray for me, and God must also be ignoring the minorities; too few to make it worthwhile for Him to bless me with health. However, I have also heard that we should be careful for what we wish, whether in prayer or else, as it's written that God already knows what we need and want, whereas we mere mortals, not all-knowing like God, in wishing and praying for things may not know what is truly good for us. No doubt you have heard this, I suppose?  I had heard also that we were made in the image of God. Where would the harm have been, if He had made us a little more like Him, in knowing things? At least knowing enough, so as to not having to ask whether He exists or not? Oh well!

It's swell to be back in touch. Looking forward to chatting while playing a few chess games with you and Peter, if possible, Because, besides being lonely, I need to keep my mind distracted from concentrating on my ailments, and Atlantis too, all painful stuff.

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13 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

In a relative sense, you are correct. But ultimately speaking, GOD is Everything.

So how about we change the word GOD, to the word love?

The word GOD has more in common with ignorance than love.

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16 hours ago, Sherapy said:

Why do you think you need to be saved and saved from what?  There is stress, there is disease, there is kindness, and love too. It is part and parcel of the human condition. No one is happy or loving 24/7. Have you ever just tried to embrace your humanness? Explore your need for redemption?  My two cents don’t waste your time chasing woo rainbows, there us no such thing as perfection.. All the best. 

One is saved from ignorance and the inevitable suffering that follows ones ego.

The truth shall set one free.

Free from suffering, from fear, from ignorance, disease, doubt, confusion etc, etc, etc..

I see a world in chaos and the horrendous amounts of suffering, yet there are a few folks wanting answers for spiritual, mental, and physical obstacles.

And if that's not for "you", then no bother, but there are a few who desire GOD and an end to suffering.

And please explain what a "woo rainbow" is? 

Thank you.

Peace.

 

 

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16 hours ago, XenoFish said:

Because your model isn't real. It is all your perspective on things. Just a framework for you to interpret life from. God is this or that, only because you assume that to be true. It is solely your model of reality. Just like everyone else's, you have your little microcosm existence. 

How do you know it isn't real?

Have you ever meditated and consciously connected to THAT?

How do you know that it isn't your perception that is wonky?

Do you remain at peace when the world around you is at war?

Systems collapsing under the sheer weight of corruption and ineptitude.

Death is stalking everyone right now, and things are going to get worse before they get better.

Yet there is a way out of this mess.

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14 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

How do you know it isn't real?

Because you can not prove that god exist. No one can. 

Have you ever meditated and consciously connected to THAT?

You mean gotten in contact with my subconscious thought processes. I never gave it a name. I could've called it my HGA or whatever.

How do you know that it isn't your perception that is wonky?

Everyone's perception is off center. Not a single person (yes this includes myself) see things the way they are. Only our interpretation of them.

Do you remain at peace when the world around you is at war?

Apathy works wonders.

Systems collapsing under the sheer weight of corruption and ineptitude.

Just like religions, governments, a wide variety of social structures, etc. Nothing new about that. 

Death is stalking everyone right now, and things are going to get worse before they get better.

And? No one exist on purpose, no one belongs anywhere, everyone is going to die, might as well watch tv. 

Yet there is a way out of this mess.

By not being a jerk, To have a bit of common decency and self-responsibility. Taking our own lives into our own hands and doing the best we can in a consistent manner. Having the realization that everyone you know, have known, and will know shall pass from this earth. With the realization that each one of us has the burden of existence. So it might be of one's own best self-interest to be a little nice to one another when the need arises. There are simple solutions to our problems, you just have to put in the effort. Religion won't do it, government will never do it, so it is up to one another to do it. 

see-things.jpg

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A person can say God is this or that, whatever they wish to associate with their idea of god. Which is just a filter for how they perceive and interact with the world around them. This goes not only for religions/spiritual beliefs, but social ones as well. Not a single person on this planet has an perfect perception of things. All of us see the world just a bit off center. We like to think that we're objective or as objective as possible. Yet we're not really. We have old programs given to us since childhood that influence our world view and self image. We have ideas that influence our current thought processes, and we will have ideas to come that shall do the same. 

It's not so different from a severely depressed person telling themselves each morning that "Life sucks" which further fuels said depression, or they tell themselves that "I'll do my best to handle whatever happens today." 

One of those affirmations will slowly and grandual change their perspective on things. 

Saying to oneself that god is this or that and I must do this or that in order to appeas/connect/worship god. By doing whatever that person thinks is required simply further reinforces their reality tunnel. Which can create a belief so strong, so adamant that nothing can shake them from it. Which is why arguing with hard nose believers is nearly futile. 

While it isn't so much that a person can not believe (if they choose) in a higher power. It is the result/s of their faith that make the differents. For some religion gives structure to their chaotic lives, a sense of hope and fuels the better parts of themselves. On the other hand that same religion can open the door to all kinds of hate and bigotry. Judgmentality and even some very wretched things. All because the idea of perpetual forgiveness exist within their minds. 

Atheism works the same way. On one hand it means freedom or the other hand it can lead to its own form of self-righteous, even fueling depression. As they might fill that void with science as a form of spirituality. The atomic god as I call it. Though I suspect this is a finite few. I figure most who embrace atheism are not concerned with religion at all and just want to live peaceful lives.

As for those "dimwit" agnostics:rolleyes: as was point out earlier in the thread. They simply say " I do not know", this is my positition. Considering my perception of things is never perfect my certainty isn't either. With some things being 99%. I do not believe in any of the gods within our collective sphere. Those are just ideas of what a god might be. Doesn't matter how sure YOU (whomever is reading this) is about that gods existence. The way I see it is that I can not prove or disprove an actual "god" like being. There is no true reference point outside of human influence either. So a firm yes or no I can not make. Because if I could make a yes/no decision I would know if such a thing does or doesn't exist. So it far from being stupid as someone I now have on ignore pointed out. 

The point being is that just because you see things a certain way doesn't mean you are 100% right in that perspective. We all subjectively experience the world around us. Never getting a perfect picture. Which is why I have an internal struggle with being here. As I'm arguing from my subjective reality tunnel and people are doing the same from there, which makes me think that quite literally all of this is poiintless....

I guess to make a summary of this, we all see the world how we wish to see it. Which is never perfect or 100% accurate. If we want to make this world just a little better all we really need to do is be better people. Which seems hypocritical coming from me but none of you really know the kind of person I actually am. Just remember this, life is a self-fulfilling prophecy with a butterfly effect. Even the smallest thing/s you do out in the real world can create a minor or major effect. This can be said for the virtual environment of the internet as well.  

 

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Wow X ,. Thanks for thinking out loud. You make a lot of interesting points in there^.   I admire your honesty too.

        ....if an agnostic is someone who does't KNOW... that might best describe me.  But , there is a difference between knowing and believing.   And for some inexplicable reason, I believe.   In something.. MORE  than ME, and my experiences.  I guess I'm a seriously flawed human being.  :P

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12 minutes ago, lightly said:

Wow X ,. Thanks for thinking out loud. You make a lot of interesting points in there^.   I admire your honesty too.

        ....if an agnostic is someone who does't KNOW... that might best describe me.  But , there is a difference between knowing and believing.   And for some inexplicable reason, I believe.   In something.. MORE  than ME, and my experiences.  I guess I'm a seriously flawed human being.  :P

There is nothing wrong with belief as long as it isn't self destructive or dangerous to someone else (like believing your spouse is an evil alien and you have to kill them to save the world, or that it is ok to lock your child in the closet for punishment).   We all have beliefs and knowings, some think their beliefs are knowings - you can tell who those are by how angry or upset the get when someone points out it is a belief rather than a knowing.  

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18 hours ago, joc said:

The real dark side of the church is that they have completely abandoned the 'teachings' of Christ in favor of a belief system that he himself did not share.  The church definition of a Christian is the Apostles Creed.  What to believe.  Nothing about how to live which is what Jesus was actually talking about all the time.  The church has taken the very words of Christ and twisted them into something so foreign from the original meaning that it is impossible to find any truth in the church at all.  That being said.  I don't care what people believe as long as it doesn't involve hurting anyone else.   

Churches are interested in politics and power more than anything else.....other than money if course.....and politics and power is the highway to more of that.

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15 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

One is saved from ignorance and the inevitable suffering that follows ones ego.

The truth shall set one free.

Free from suffering, from fear, from ignorance, disease, doubt, confusion etc, etc, etc..

I see a world in chaos and the horrendous amounts of suffering, yet there are a few folks wanting answers for spiritual, mental, and physical obstacles.

And if that's not for "you", then no bother, but there are a few who desire GOD and an end to suffering.

And please explain what a "woo rainbow" is? 

Thank you.

Peace.

 

 

Sherapy honestly doesn't believe in all that "woo stuff"   You know; that people are meant to be happy, content, confident, healthy in mind and body, and empowered  with meaning and purpose  tomake a difference  

She seems to think that  the best a human can do is learn to cope with (what she sees as)  the inevitable pain and suffering life brings. 

woo rainbow is a sort of catch all for what we might once have called Pollyannas ie people who see the best in all things  and value the spiritual at least as much as the material. 

(unless of course she is talking about the actress of that name  or the  rapper woo- ri from  the band Rainbow) . :)  

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On 10/23/2021 at 5:56 AM, Phantom309 said:

 

Bible Fallacy .jpg

 

Despite the fact it was written over 1600 ago, It was verified by the Dead Sea Scrolls, archeology, geology, history, and historians. You can't beat that, pal.

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7 minutes ago, larryp said:

It was verified by the Dead Sea Scrolls, archeology, geology, history, and historians.You can't beat that, pal.

You keep repeating this as if it means something.

What exactly has has been verified?

What about all the writings in the DSS that aren't in most if any of today's bibles?

How the hell does geology verify anything whatsoever about the bible?

There are plenty of historians who consider the bible to be mainly a book of fiction.

Which historians are you referring to and what of their findings are relevant to verifying which aspect(s) in the bible are facts?

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