The Harm Done By Religion

[Grim Reaper 6]

1 minute ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Manwon

Yes there are crazy people  but from my experience in life there is not much I can judge about others given my life experience. I was an alter boy and was never abused by my priest so I have no story to tell, not that I think others are valid and still came to the conclusion the god was what we are thinking beings diverse in beliefs as we are that somehow make up for all the fruitcakes out there. I do not judge someone from where they come from but do make my judgements baasesed on how they deal with others. 

To be honest I have had a couple of shots of rum and am having a cap locks problrm and will try for he next few hours not say much

 No your doing fine, I appreciate your comments I really do! My Mother and Father were Catholics, so when I was born I was baptized. Then until my early teens I was forced to attend church, about 14 my Mother excused from go to Church any longer, so I never went again. As far as the homosexuality issues of the Catholic Ministries, I didn't even know anything about it until sometime in the 1990s when the entire situation broke wide open, and honestly I was shocked. I never would have dreamed that things were so bad and the decay ran so very deep, I was shocked and I must say it destroyed my Mother. She completely lost faith and she never regained it, she passed away in 2006 and I was at her side when she passed. I thought maybe in the days leading up to her death she would say something about her faith, however she didn't, so I never brought up!

As far as judging people in this thread, that's not really my goal at all. The name of this Thread is The Harm Done by Religion, and the previous post with the baby Baptism, and with the post I just made are directly harm caused by religion. In the articles' that discuss the Snake Churches they claim that few of these Churches still exist, but I believe that they have only gone underground. After 2014 in the United States they all but made those practices illegal because people were dying. In reality I could careless what those people choose to do, its their life and if they believe so strongly they are safe doing what they do, that is fine with me. The only thing I dont really like about the practice is that they are teach the children present bad habits, and if all the adults die, hey they made their choice but I feel sorry for the kids!

Peace, have another shot sit back and relax!!

[jmccr8]

1 minute ago, eight bits said:

That's an interesting report. Not just that it wasn't religious, but that you prepared your son for the experience, and then there was the tangible and long-term pay-off (the two of you could do something cool that rewarded his having learned this skill).

Is blowing in a person's face to close their nasal passages a "thing"? I blow in the face of cows and horses for the opposite effect. I think it's a safe way for them to learn about me, and also mimics what seems to be a social "ritual" among themselves. In any case, they seem to like it. I can't recall ever trying it with people (and with COVID still on the loose, I'd probaby be arrested these days).

Hi Eight Bits

 Blowing in the face of the dog will automatically make it close it's nasal passages and we are that something more but not yet detached from that basic principal in life. Some cultures mostly eastern like to get into your breathe or physically close to you whereas western cultures like to have that 3' radius of my space. Am kinda SFed right now so not sure anything I say will make sense. For some reason instictively I knew that blowing in my sons face would make him close his nostrils because I had been in wind storms and instintively did the same thing. Sorry for spelling and stuff but I am not completely so0ber riight now and may plead the fith ammmendment in the morning..

[jmccr8]

20 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

1. No you don't really get wet it's all an illusion and your a free electron traveling through cyber space and you hear a burp behind you and as you turn toward that sound you shudder from the sight you are witnessing?

Hi anwon

Vision is kind of blurry and couldn't understand if you said election or erection.

[Grim Reaper 6]

9 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi anwon

Vision is kind of blurry and couldn't understand if you said election or erection.

You eyes are blurry the word I used was ELECTRON, as in a free electron moving through Cyber Space!!!

Edited November 7, 2021 by Manwon Lender

[jmccr8]

2 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

You eyes are blurry the word I used was ELECTRON, as in a free electron moving through Cyber Space!!!

Hi MANWON gIVEN MY CURRRENT STATE OF SOBRIETY THET LOOKS KIKE A MAP OF HU,MSN SVOLUTION SORRY FOR THE CAP LOCK BUT I DON'T FEEL LLIKE EDITTINGAND BAD SPELLING

[Grim Reaper 6]

4 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi MANWON gIVEN MY CURRRENT STATE OF SOBRIETY THET LOOKS KIKE A MAP OF HU,MSN SVOLUTION SORRY FOR THE CAP LOCK BUT I DON'T FEEL LLIKE EDITTINGAND BAD SPELLING

That's totally cool, I am glad your entertaining yourself. I use to love to relax and have drink, but because of the Medication I  must take I gave up drinking a long time ago.

Have good night!

[jmccr8]

1 minute ago, Manwon Lender said:

That's totally cool, I am glad your entertaining yourself. I use to love to relax and have drink, but because of the Medication I  must take I gave up drinking a long time ago.

Have good night!

H

[rashore]

12 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi MANWON gIVEN MY CURRRENT STATE OF SOBRIETY THET LOOKS KIKE A MAP OF HU,MSN SVOLUTION SORRY FOR THE CAP LOCK BUT I DON'T FEEL LLIKE EDITTINGAND BAD SPELLING

 

3 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

H

You should go sleep it off jmccr8.

[Grim Reaper 6]

4 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

H

Peace

Edited November 7, 2021 by Manwon Lender

[jmccr8]

2 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

That's totally cool, I am glad your entertaining yourself. I use to love to relax and have drink, but because of the Medication I  must take I gave up drinking a long time ago.

Have good night!

Hi Manwon

 I joke around a lot about being sked because it creates a certain response from others and yes there are times when I have been sfed that posts have been removed. Yes I am a dog in many ways and loveable as I am I peed on the carpet and such is life for the carpet guy which fortunately is noit the mainstay of my ;ife and what I do have control of is actually not the bad.

[Grim Reaper 6]

2 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Manwon

 I joke around a lot about being sked because it creates a certain response from others and yes there are times when I have been sfed that posts have been removed. Yes I am a dog in many ways and loveable as I am I peed on the carpet and such is life for the carpet guy which fortunately is noit the mainstay of my ;ife and what I do have control of is actually not the bad.

Hey were friends and if you need someone to talk with that's cool, your not doing any wrong just enjoying yourself and I am happy for you!

[jmccr8]

Just now, Manwon Lender said:

Hey were friends and if you need someone to talk with that's cool, your not doing any wrong just enjoying yourself and I am happy for you!

Hi Manwon

I am signing off for the night because I  know that I am impaired and have not much to offer at this time. Yes I have had a great week and the next couple look real good. I finished an order that I got last night for Monday done today and am happy with quality control which in part is why I am fked up the quality is good.

[Grim Reaper 6]

3 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Manwon

I am signing off for the night because I  know that I am impaired and have not much to offer at this time. Yes I have had a great week and the next couple look real good. I finished an order that I got last night for Monday done today and am happy with quality control which in part is why I am fked up the quality is good.

 

[jmccr8]

1 minute ago, Manwon Lender said:

 

 Hi Manwom

I donate bud and extract for vets that suffer from PTSD because I do not want to see them, using hard drugs just last week a fellow died thinking he was smoking crack and it was laced with fentianyl. and I do not want my vets who have given so much be destroyed buy synthetics. I am not saying it is a cure but when faced with the realities of life if they get lost in the sidelines oh well and that is not good with me.

[Grim Reaper 6]

1 minute ago, jmccr8 said:

 Hi Manwom

I donate bud and extract for vets that suffer from PTSD because I do not want to see them, using hard drugs just last week a fellow died thinking he was smoking crack and it was laced with fentianyl. and I do not want my vets who have given so much be destroyed buy synthetics. I am not saying it is a cure but when faced with the realities of life if they get lost in the sidelines oh well and that is not good with me.

Trust me I am an authority on PTSD, it's been my close companion since 1999 and it is very unforgiving at times.

I am out, take care!

 

 

 

[jmccr8]

Just now, Manwon Lender said:

Trust me I am an authority on PTSD, it's been my close companion since 1999 and it is very unforgiving at times.

I am out, take care!

 

 

 

Hi Manwon

I don't know maybe I have experienced forms of PTSD that was never diagnosed beause some of us do not have the latitude to step out and look for help and just find a way for ourselves.

I almost hgate myself for responding at this time especially when 15 minutes ago I posted an update that I was signing offf and you liked thgen you comer here and bait me.

[jmccr8]

7 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Trust me I am an authority on PTSD, it's been my close companion since 1999 and it is very unforgiving at times.

I am out, take care!

 

 

 

IO care and do my bit in the way I see it needs to be met

[Abramelin]

On 11/6/2021 at 11:24 AM, eight bits said:

Abramelin had offered a reservation about a historical Jesus, that's what Manwon was responding to.

Maybe the next is a bit off topic.

Anyway, I have no problems believing in a man called Yoshua ben Yusuf, son of a woman called Myriamne. A man, a rabbi (!), who wandered around and taught those he met. Also no problems with this man having had disciples and followers.

Now what I found especially interesting are the circumstances during his birth. There were three socalled wise men, 3 kings (?), coming from the east, 'following a star'.

But who would 'follow a star'? Astrologers! And where might those astrologers have come from? Tibet.

Why? Well, even nowadays Tibetan buddhist monks cast a horoscope to determine the location where a recently died high Lama may have reincarnated. If I remember well, decades ago these Tibetan monks went as far as Spain where they found their "reincarnated' Lama.

How did and do they determine if the infant is indeed the reincarnated Lama? They show the infant (a toddler, not really a newborn baby), several items which once belonged to the Lama; they also add items that never belonged to that Lama. They then watch the reaction of the toddler to these 'gifts': does he pick out those that once actually belonged to the dead Lama, or does he just pick something at random without any special interest in what once belonged to the dead Lama.

And of course, those 'gifts' were the gifts given by the Three Wise Men to baby Jesus (who must have been a toddler already).

Nice story, eh?

Edited to add:

The last time I told this story was in 1980. I was without a job, and aside of applying for a job, I was a quite fanatic practitioner of astrology.

A brother of mine was a socalled 'reborn Christian', and while walking in a park together, he said something like astrology not being oké according to the Bible.

The story above was my reply.

Edited November 7, 2021 by Abramelin

[eight bits]

44 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

Maybe the next is a bit off topic.

Not really. Part of the harm done by ancient Christianity was to falsify its history. That sounds kind of abstract, but a practical illustration is that snake handling stuff covered recently here, and obviously harmful.

Where does that come from? Mark 16:17-18 and no place else in the canon ( "These signs will accompany those who believe: ... they will take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it will in no way hurt them ...").

Those verses are not part of the original Gospel according to Mark. They were added sometime between the first and fourth centuries. Now, maybe the whole of Mark is a fiction anyway, but those verses aren't even part of that (possible) fiction - they are simply forgery.

Fraud. lying, and forgery are harm. Encouraging people to do foolish things based on a forgery is harm.

44 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

Anyway, I have no problems believing in a man called Yoshua ben Yusuf, son of a woman called Myriamne. A man, a rabbi (!), who wandered around and taught those he met. Also no problems with this man having had disciples and followers.

Me neither. We're in good company. Thomas Paine articulated a similar view (The Age of Reason, Part 2, chapter 2)

Quote

TURNING TO THE NEW TESTAMENT

The New Testament, they tell us, is founded upon the prophecies of the Old; if so, it must follow the fate of its foundation. As it is nothing extraordinary that a woman should be with child before she was married, and that the son she might bring forth should be executed, even unjustly, I see no reason for not believing that such a woman as Mary, and such a man as Joseph, and Jesus existed; their mere existence is a matter of indifference about which there is no ground either to believe or to disbelieve, and which comes under the common head of, It may be so; and what then?

At the personal level, Paine also thought that Jesus probably was a preacher, preachings he discusses several places in his works. Some of them Paine even likes.

 

44 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

The story above was my reply.

Good answer .

Edited November 7, 2021 by eight bits

[Will Due]

1 hour ago, Abramelin said:

Maybe the next is a bit off topic.

Anyway, I have no problems believing in a man called Yoshua ben Yusuf, son of a woman called Myriamne. A man, a rabbi (!), who wandered around and taught those he met. Also no problems with this man having had disciples and followers.

Now what I found especially interesting are the circumstances during his birth. There were three socalled wise men, 3 kings (?), coming from the east, 'following a star'.

But who would 'follow a star'? Astrologers! And where might those astrologers have come from? Tibet.

Why? Well, even nowadays Tibetan buddhist monks cast a horoscope to determine the location where a recently died high Lama may have reincarnated. If I remember well, decades ago these Tibetan monks went as far as Spain where they found their "reincarnated' Lama.

How did and do they determine if the infant is indeed the reincarnated Lama? They show the infant (a toddler, not really a newborn baby), several items which once belonged to the Lama; they also add items that never belonged to that Lama. They then watch the reaction of the toddler to these 'gifts': does he pick out those that once actually belonged to the dead Lama, or does he just pick something at random without any special interest in what once belonged to the dead Lama.

And of course, those 'gifts' were the gifts given by the Three Wise Men to baby Jesus (who must have been a toddler already).

Nice story, eh?

Edited to add:

The last time I told this story was in 1980. I was without a job, and aside of applying for a job, I was a quite fanatic practitioner of astrology.

A brother of mine was a socalled 'reborn Christian', and while walking in a park together, he said something like astrology not being oké according to the Bible.

The story above was my reply.

 

This is just one example of the many questions people have about the accuracies, or the suspected lack thereof, of what is written in the Bible regarding the historical facts surrounding the life of Jesus. Yet, there exists a source of information, even though it came into existence mysteriously, that thoroughly explains everything necessary to understand why these inaccuracies exist. And much more. Here's an example:

 

 

"No shepherds nor any other mortal creatures came to pay homage to the babe of Bethlehem until the day of the arrival of certain priests from Ur, who were sent down from Jerusalem by Zacharias.

122:8.6

These priests from Mesopotamia had been told sometime before by a strange religious teacher of their country that he had had a dream in which he was informed that “the light of life” was about to appear on earth as a babe and among the Jews. And thither went these three teachers looking for this “light of life.” After many weeks of futile search in Jerusalem, they were about to return to Ur when Zacharias met them and disclosed his belief that Jesus was the object of their quest and sent them on to Bethlehem, where they found the babe and left their gifts with Mary, his earth mother. The babe was almost three weeks old at the time of their visit.

122:8.7

These wise men saw no star to guide them to Bethlehem. The beautiful legend of the star of Bethlehem originated in this way: Jesus was born August 21 at noon, 7 B.C. On May 29, 7 B.C., there occurred an extraordinary conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn in the constellation of Pisces. And it is a remarkable astronomic fact that similar conjunctions occurred on September 29 and December 5 of the same year. Upon the basis of these extraordinary but wholly natural events the well-meaning zealots of the succeeding generation constructed the appealing legend of the star of Bethlehem and the adoring Magi led thereby to the manger, where they beheld and worshiped the newborn babe. Oriental and near-Oriental minds delight in fairy stories, and they are continually spinning such beautiful myths about the lives of their religious leaders and political heroes. In the absence of printing, when most human knowledge was passed by word of mouth from one generation to another, it was very easy for myths to become traditions and for traditions eventually to become accepted as facts.

 

The Birth of Jesus

 

 

[+joc]

15 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Oh and by the way how do you like my Jesus Gif

So you are going with the Gif of the baby being baptized is what really happened there?  Just like an airplane crashing into the water?  It's a gif.  Where is the original video...show me that...and I might take it seriously. 

Nevermind...I found at least one:  that's pretty twisted...who would allow anyone to do that to their baby and why would they?  Control!   Pure Control...Child Abuse begins early in the Church...

 

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by joc

[Abramelin]

45 minutes ago, Will Due said:

 

This is just one example of the many questions people have about the accuracies, or the suspected lack thereof, of what is written in the Bible regarding the historical facts surrounding the life of Jesus. Yet, there exists a source of information, even though it came into existence mysteriously, that thoroughly explains everything necessary to understand why these inaccuracies exist. And much more. Here's an example:

 

 

"No shepherds nor any other mortal creatures came to pay homage to the babe of Bethlehem until the day of the arrival of certain priests from Ur, who were sent down from Jerusalem by Zacharias.

122:8.6

These priests from Mesopotamia had been told sometime before by a strange religious teacher of their country that he had had a dream in which he was informed that “the light of life” was about to appear on earth as a babe and among the Jews. And thither went these three teachers looking for this “light of life.” After many weeks of futile search in Jerusalem, they were about to return to Ur when Zacharias met them and disclosed his belief that Jesus was the object of their quest and sent them on to Bethlehem, where they found the babe and left their gifts with Mary, his earth mother. The babe was almost three weeks old at the time of their visit.

122:8.7

These wise men saw no star to guide them to Bethlehem. The beautiful legend of the star of Bethlehem originated in this way: Jesus was born August 21 at noon, 7 B.C. On May 29, 7 B.C., there occurred an extraordinary conjunction of Jupiter and Saturn in the constellation of Pisces. And it is a remarkable astronomic fact that similar conjunctions occurred on September 29 and December 5 of the same year. Upon the basis of these extraordinary but wholly natural events the well-meaning zealots of the succeeding generation constructed the appealing legend of the star of Bethlehem and the adoring Magi led thereby to the manger, where they beheld and worshiped the newborn babe. Oriental and near-Oriental minds delight in fairy stories, and they are continually spinning such beautiful myths about the lives of their religious leaders and political heroes. In the absence of printing, when most human knowledge was passed by word of mouth from one generation to another, it was very easy for myths to become traditions and for traditions eventually to become accepted as facts.

 

The Birth of Jesus

 

 

It's from the Urantia book.

I think we should stay as close as possible to ancient existing sources, sources of around Jesus' time and short thereafter.

[Will Due]

6 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

It's from the Urantia book.

I think we should stay as close as possible to ancient existing sources, sources of around Jesus' time and short thereafter.

 

Yes it's from the Urantia Book and it's alright to stay within the framework of the ancient sources. But just in case, when interested, the UB can be used as a supplement for comparison. But as always when entertaining any and all sources of information when it comes to an understanding of God's purpose for us individually and discerning it accurately; insightful discretion is always necessary. Not to mention, dedicated and wholehearted faith.

Thanks for your reply.

 

 

[Doug1066]

On 11/5/2021 at 4:42 AM, larryp said:

Because Jesus did, and he taught his followers to do the same. The Pharisees and the Sadducees had different religious believes, and YHWH's son constantly rebuked them, to the point of costing him his life.  John 18: 3-5

That's the same thing atheists do to "Christians:"  point out the inconsistencies, the harm done to other people, the illogical conclusions.  And for some reason, Christians don't like it when all the atheists are doing is following biblical teachings.

Doug

[larryp]

On 11/5/2021 at 4:55 PM, Liquid Gardens said:

Hey I don't know why you're talking about what I would do, I'm not Jesus . . ."

You implied that Jesus was hypocritical since he verbally attacked the Pharisees and Sadducees for having a different faith. My response was, one of Jesus' missions was to expose the false teaching of the Pharisees and the Sadducees and clear YHWH'S name.

Edited November 7, 2021 by larryp