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The Harm Done By Religion


Doug1066
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22 minutes ago, larryp said:

You implied that Jesus was hypocritical since he verbally attacked

Yes, because verbal attacks are the exact opposite of shaking the dust off your feet and moving on.  This isn't really that complicated.

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1 hour ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Yes, because verbal attacks are the exact opposite of shaking the dust off your feet and moving on.  This isn't really that complicated.

YHWH

If someone slandered someone you loved and misrepresented their goals, would you stand there with your hand in your mouth? or would you defend your loved one? Be reasonable.

Edited by larryp
the details!
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29 minutes ago, larryp said:

YHWH

If someone slandered someone you loved and misrepresented their goals, would you stand there with your hand in your mouth? or would you defend your loved one? Be reasonable.

Do you possess this same type of fervor towards Santa, the Tooth Fairy, or even the Easter Bunny? Kinda of funny. If we are to defend a loved one (parent, spouse, a friend, or our children), we know with certainty that they in fact exist. We can prove they exist. Yet, no so with your imaginary friend.

Edited by XenoFish
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6 hours ago, joc said:

So you are going with the Gif of the baby being baptized is what really happened there?  Just like an airplane crashing into the water?  It's a gif.  Where is the original video...show me that...and I might take it seriously. 

Nevermind...I found at least one:  that's pretty twisted...who would allow anyone to do that to their baby and why would they?  Control!   Pure Control...Child Abuse begins early in the Church...

 

 

This is horrible. 

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On 11/6/2021 at 12:56 PM, XenoFish said:

A cool rain on a hot day or snow on a very cold one. One's thoughts and feelings regarding the rain are their own opinion.

 

Ones thoughts and feelings regarding the rain are ones own opinion, that's true, yet that wasn't the point, was it?

The actual point, or question, was, that if one gets wet in the rain, is that an opinion?

 

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Just now, Crazy Horse said:

Ones thoughts and feelings regarding the rain are ones own opinion, that's true, yet that wasn't the point, was it?

The actual point, or question, was, that if one gets wet in the rain, is that an opinion?

 

You're trying to shoehorn this into a god thing. I think most of us know that the rain is real. If one get's wet from the rain, how do they feel about that? 

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On 11/6/2021 at 2:45 PM, lightly said:

It's interesting how big of change the New Testament is..?  "Behold ,I stand at the door and knock"    It's a unification of God and man... A big ,and apparently fairly succesful, Public Relations and promotions effort?   Talk of peace and love and forgiveness would be refreshing compared to the strictness of the Old Testament ?     I'm no bible scholar ,,and some would say that the New Testament is more fulfillment than change.  But it seems like quite an upgrade. You just don't put new wine in old bottles.? :P

Christ was one man, shining in the dark.

Next time there will be many such folk shining a light over here, a light over there, and perhaps even a light upon you too, lol..

Just love.

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19 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

Ones thoughts and feelings regarding the rain are ones own opinion, that's true, yet that wasn't the point, was it?

The actual point, or question, was, that if one gets wet in the rain, is that an opinion?

 

The real question is...if one get's wet in the rain...what is their opinion concerning their wetness?   Fact...you are wet.  Opinion...what you think about being wet.

1 hour ago, XenoFish said:

Do you possess this same type of fervor towards Santa, the Tooth Fairy, or even the Easter Bunny?

I will tell you this my friend, say what you want about Santa and the Easter Bunny...but...if you mess with Tooth Fairy...........mmm hmmm....nuf said...just don't!!

Edited by joc
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2 minutes ago, joc said:

if you mess with Tooth Fairy

D6eCieQU8AEZR7W.jpg

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7 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

Christ was one man, shining in the dark.

Next time there will be many such folk shining a light over here, a light over there, and perhaps even a light upon you too, lol..

Just love.

That is what we be talkin' bout....that is an opinion of yours...but yet you relate it is though it was the actual factual truth.  (did I just really say 'actual factual'?  wow...good one!)

There is no 'factual evidence' that Christ was even a man.  Nor that he was shining in the dark.  Now, Edison was indeed a man and he was truly 'shining' in the dark!

Next time what?  Next time.  What does that mean?  What is love and what's love got to do with it?   

Nothing wrong with anything  you are saying...per say...except you say it as though it were truth and it isn't. It is your opinion. ..and that's okay...we all have one about almost anything you want to throw out there...

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On 11/6/2021 at 3:52 PM, Sherapy said:

Yes, your experience of your god construct is your opinion. Period. No one disputes that it is possible to apply a god construct as a tool to cope effectively or Ineffectively, both outcomes are possible. But, beyond this your experience is an opinion, nothing more. 
 

Use great care in claiming an altered state of consciousness, at best it is little more than maintaining a balance in our nervous systems namely maintaining a homeostasis between sympathetic dominance (SD) and parasympathetic dominance (PD). For example: having a predominately stressful life in medicine is labeled as sympathetic dominance (SD), or operating in survival mode. Think of a balloon as every stressor piles up more air goes into the balloon, how much air before the balloon pops?  Or before you start to show symptoms of too much stress beyond your capacity to cope? Hallucinations and delusions are symptoms of stress too.  
 

The objective is to find healthy ways to cope so one can release some of the air (stress) to maintain a PD.  Not trying to convince themselves or others that their delusions are hallucinations are actuality. 

 

Enter a coping system, maybe one goes fro a run everyday or one comes home and drinks alcohol, or practices yoga (moving meditation)or maybe does nothing and has a heart attack or experiences other cortisol related health concerns. Remember an altered state of consciousness includes hallucinations and delusions, biases, sleep, daydreaming etc. etc. Meditation medically is a tool to access ones natural ability to restore parasympathetic dominance in other words induce a calm relaxed state. Just deep breathing techniques or a 15 minute run will do this very effectively. 
 

 

OK, so let me use great care..

This altered state of consciousness isn't just calm and relaxed, there are no hallucinations, one is not asleep, and for one to have a bias or delusions one must think, and decern/judge something or someone.

None of the above apply to this altered state of consciousness that I have experienced over and over, again.

There are no thoughts in this state, one is set apart from this world, and in doing so, one feels at-one-ment with THAT.

Perhaps this is your normal state of awareness, of consciousness?

 

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1 minute ago, Crazy Horse said:

OK, so let me use great care..

This altered state of consciousness isn't just calm and relaxed, there are no hallucinations, one is not asleep, and for one to have a bias or delusions one must think, and decern/judge something or someone.

None of the above apply to this altered state of consciousness that I have experienced over and over, again.

There are no thoughts in this state, one is set apart from this world, and in doing so, one feels at-one-ment with THAT.

Perhaps this is your normal state of awareness, of consciousness?

 

So you went in to a trance state, la de dah.

Edited by XenoFish
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30 minutes ago, Crazy Horse said:

OK, so let me use great care..

This altered state of consciousness isn't just calm and relaxed, there are no hallucinations, one is not asleep, and for one to have a bias or delusions one must think, and decern/judge something or someone.

None of the above apply to this altered state of consciousness that I have experienced over and over, again.

There are no thoughts in this state, one is set apart from this world, and in doing so, one feels at-one-ment with THAT.

Perhaps this is your normal state of awareness, of consciousness?

 

You are describing being awestruck and it seems you are amazed at feeling awestruck, it is a fun emotion too, and I am pleased you are getting some quiet time, everyone needs time for themselves, or maybe this is a new emotional experience for you. In life, awe struck is part and parcel of the human condition everyone at one time or another in the course of a lifetime has been or will be awestruck to varying degrees over something or someone and this can include a fascination with ones ego too. A feature of awestruck is one tends to oversell things.
 

To me, It sounds like you are finally getting some much needed you time and you are loving it.   All the best to you. 

Edited by Sherapy
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9 hours ago, joc said:

So you are going with the Gif of the baby being baptized is what really happened there?  Just like an airplane crashing into the water?  It's a gif.  Where is the original video...show me that...and I might take it seriously. 

Nevermind...I found at least one:  that's pretty twisted...who would allow anyone to do that to their baby and why would they?  Control!   Pure Control...Child Abuse begins early in the Church...

 

 

A gif is part of video that's what gif files are made from, have you ever made one, I have?. Whether you choose to believe it or not is fine with me, Those Orthodox Catholic Priests in Georgia are completely crazy, like I said before Water Boarding is less traumatic than whats happening in those videos.

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1 hour ago, Sherapy said:

You are describing being awestruck and it seems you are amazed at feeling awestruck, it is a fun emotion too, and I am pleased you are getting some quiet time, everyone needs time for themselves, or maybe this is a new emotional experience for you. In life, awe struck is part and parcel of the human condition everyone at one time or another in the course of a lifetime has been or will be awestruck to varying degrees over something or someone and this can include a fascination with ones ego too. A feature of awestruck is one tends to oversell things.
 

To me, It sounds like you are finally getting some much needed you time and you are loving it.   All the best to you. 

I was awestruck once...okay twice...okay...

...I'm awestruck every time I read anything you have written...

Happy?  B)

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5 minutes ago, joc said:

I was awestruck once...okay twice...okay...

...I'm awestruck every time I read anything you have written...

Happy?  B)

You crack me up:wub:

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Joc and Xeno have  missed the actual point about rain and god. 

If rain is real you get wet You can choose how you feel about getting wet but not about being wet.  You cant keep dry in the rain by simply not perceiving the rain  

I t is the same for a real god (or anything else which is  real) You can choose how you respond to it but you can't choose if it exists or not.  It wont appear or disappear as you change your ;perception beceuse it has it's own independent existence.

   In the presence of rain you get wet  In the presence of god you are also physically affected

The difficulty here is that xeno and joc perhaps for different reasons don't actually believe in a physical god but the y do "believe in" rain  

Thus the y can comprehend only a reality tunnel or a perception   of/for god.

  I am sure, however, that they realise that physical rain is more than a reality tunnel or perception.

It exists outside our minds.

So do many other things, including (in my experience) a being we sometimes know as god.

It is real and has its own independent existence but, as with rain, we can choose how to perceive and respond to its existence .

We can hide inside from  it,  walk cautiously  in it with an umbrella and raincoat,  or choose to walk joyously through, it singing as we go .

It won t go away by wishful thinking, nor can a real god be summoned/created,  by your mind alone.   

 

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1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

Joc and Xeno have  missed the actual point about rain and god. 

Neither Joc nor Xeno miss points of any kind...they both kind of know pretty much everything about pretty much everything.  

There was no point about rain and god...but blather away, it's your dime...

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13 minutes ago, joc said:

Neither Joc nor Xeno miss points of any kind...they both kind of know pretty much everything about pretty much everything.  

There was no point about rain and god...but blather away, it's your dime...

You claim (as I read your posts)  that god exists only in the mind, and is thus just a personal perception or belief. 

In fact,  "god' is like the rain. It is real, and affects a person with its reality.

BUT we also can perceive rain in individual ways  and some people live in deserts where they rarely, if ever, encounter rain  

If you  believe that "god" is only a mental construct, then you are factually in error . It is as real, powerful, and significant, as the rain 

That is what  I, and ( I think) crazy horse, are trying to explain.

However, it impossible to get through to anyone who is convinced that god only exits in a person's mind or reality  tunnel 

It is like trying to explain rain to someone who has never encountered it .

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44 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

However, it impossible to get through to anyone who is convinced that god only exits in a person's mind or reality  tunnel 

It is like trying to explain rain to someone who has never encountered it .

Or the Mona Lisa to the blind? Yes, it's a tired old analogy, old friend. It doesn't hold water, nor does it persuade anyone who requires more substance than that of dream. Any experience one has, can only be related to others from the contents of one's own mind, bereft of any tangible materiale. The only knowledge of God or gods is that which is imparted from one mind to another, irregardless of what one believes or think one knows. That's the "catch twenty-two" you seem to always be trapped in.

Edited by Hammerclaw
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25 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Or the Mona Lisa to the blind? Yes, it's a tired old analogy, old friend. It doesn't hold water, nor does it persuade anyone who requires more substance than that of dream. Any experience one has, can only be related to others from the contents of one's own mind, bereft of any tangible materiale. The only knowledge of God or gods is that which is imparted from one mind to another, irregardless of what one believes or think one knows. That's the "catch twenty-two" you seem to always be trapped in.

It is old  but not tired 

it took me a while to realise that just as I am (partially)   colour blind there are people [physically blind to certain things in the real world  such as angels  gods ghosts etc.

They just dont see/recognise them, even if the y are standing next to one 

When we talk about  most real things in the modern age everyone can accept  them, even if they haven't actually encountered one personally, because of books and other media 

But there is a substantial minority of humans who have never encountered anything like an angel or a ghost and only a few who live in a world where gods, angels and other entities are as  real as a platypus, if as elusive ..  

One can argue that gods and ghosts are not real without being ridiculed, as you would be if you argued that  dogs and cats were not real. 

The y can feel confirmed and justified in their disbelief because others agree with them, and because such things are quite difficult to provide transferrable evidences for 

And no; I've seen a platypus once in real life. Thus   I can describe that encounter to you  and give you "knowledge" about it 

I've encountered angels, ghosts, and "gods" many times.

  I can impart knowldge to you about them, as I can for the platypus,  but, for ME,  both are real/ physical and KNOWN/knowable  because I've encountered them as real, physical, living, beings 

Thus, I know "god" from personal/ lived experiences, just as I know my wife or dogs,  but until YOU encounter my wife, my dogs, or god, you can only share  my words about them,   and know them through those words. 

This is what people who haven't had these physical encounters simply cant get or understand, and usually don't believe are possible, until it happens to them.   

Edited by Mr Walker
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1 minute ago, Mr Walker said:

It is old  but not tired 

it took me a while to realise that just as I am (partially)   colour blind there are people [physically blind to certain things in the real world  such as angels  gods ghosts etc.

They just dont see/recognise them, even if the y are standing next to one 

When we talk about  most real things in the modern age everyone can accept  them, even if they haven't actually encountered one personally, because of books and other media 

But there is a substantial minority of humans who have never encountered anything like an angel or a ghost and only a few who live in a world where gods, angels and other entities are as  real as a platypus, if as elusive ..  

The y can feel confirmed and justified in their disbelief because others agree with them and because such things are quite difficult to provide transferrable evidences for 

And no I've seen a platypus once in real life. Thus   I can describe that encounter to you  and give you "knowledge" about it 

I've encountered angels, ghosts, and "gods" many times.

  I can impart knowldge to you about them, as I can for the platypus,  but, for ME,  both are real/ physical and KNOWN/knowable  because I've encountered them as real, physical, living, beings 

Thus, I know "god" from personal/ lived experiences, just as I know my wife or dogs,  but until YOU encounter my wife, my dogs, or god, you can only share  my words about them,   and know them through those words. 

This is what people who haven't had these physical encounters simply cant get or understand, and usually don't believe are possible, until it happens to them.   

Not to worry; we all die, eventual and will all know the facts then....or not, as the case may be.:yes:

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Just now, Hammerclaw said:

Not to worry; we all die, eventual and will all know the facts then....or not, as the case may be.:yes:

lol (gently)  

No I  don't believe that. 

One knows the facts through lived experience, while alive. 

I suspect that dead is dead, and one can't experience or learn anything new after death.

We learn and experience through physical and cognitive experiences.

IMO, these  cease with the death of mind or body 

Ie one doesn't have to die to know who/what one is,  who /what the universe is, and one' s connection to and role within, the universe.

I'm open to the idea that our consciousness are stored/preserved in a huge virtual reality library for public access  ,   but it doesn't really matter.

. While alive your mind can roam across  time and space,  and live in any time and anywhere.

It can access that public repository of all consciousness's in the  here and now.     In that sense I am, always have been, and always will be  (at least until my mind dies) :)     

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1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

lol (gently)  

No I  don't believe that. 

One knows the facts through lived experience, while alive. 

I suspect that dead is dead, and one can't experience or learn anything new after death.

We learn and experience through physical and cognitive experiences.

IMO, these  cease with the death of mind or body 

Ie one doesn't have to die to know who/what one is,  who /what the universe is, and one' s connection to and role within, the universe.

I'm open to the idea that our consciousness are stored/preserved in a huge virtual reality library for public access  ,   but it doesn't really matter.

. While alive your mind can roam across  time and space,  and live in any time and anywhere.

It can access that public repository of all consciousness's in the  here and now.     In that sense I am, always have been, and always will be  (at least until my mind dies) :)     

Then your personal God is nothing but a grandiose delusion, whose only purpose is to make you feel special, when you really are just an average, ordinary bloke. I'm sorry, old friend, but all you bring to the table is ego and nothing else, save for what bears witness to your tragic and pathetic fantasies. I truly pity you.

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On 11/2/2021 at 6:14 PM, XenoFish said:

How long have people been waiting? How long will people continue to wait until everyone gives up? Too many false promises. Too many lies. Hope in a false god. 

". . . that in the last days ridiculers will come with their ridicule, proceeding according to their own desires and saying: “Where is this promised presence of his? Why, from the day our forefathers fell asleep in death, all things are continuing exactly as they were from creation’s beginning.” 2 Peter 3:4

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