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The Harm Done By Religion


Doug1066
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44 minutes ago, Doug1066 said:

I survived another surgery.  Now I get to repeat the last three weeks of the healing process.  Going to be a long winter.

DOUG

Best wishes Doug.

Hang in there.

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14 hours ago, Pettytalk said:

Now, be kind.

What is meditation?

Meditation is exploring. It’s not a fixed destination. Your head doesn’t become vacuumed free of thought, utterly undistracted. It’s a special place where each and every moment is momentous. When we meditate we venture into the workings of our minds: our sensations (air blowing on our skin or a harsh smell wafting into the room), our emotions (love this, hate that, crave this, loathe that) and thoughts (wouldn’t it be weird to see an elephant playing a trumpet).

Mindfulness meditation asks us to suspend judgment and unleash our natural curiosity about the workings of the mind, approaching our experience with warmth and kindness, to ourselves and others.

Will shoot the breeze some other time. Good night, CH. Still fiends!

I was being kind, only, it takes a special perspective to see it thus.

In any event, I can agree that meditation is an exploration, "of the Kingdom of GOD", although there are other names too, only, to be able to abide in THAT place, there can be no thoughts whatsoever, no narratives, no conclusions, and you get the picture?

This Kingdom is GOD, and the more one abides there - two things happen, (maybe more).

The first is that the ego dies. Like an over-inflated bubble, with a slow puncture. The ego loses its influence and so the higher mind is engaged.

And the second thing that happens is that one is filled with THAT, strangely enough, as the ego shrinks, the Divine is known (more so). Until one is THAT in every way shape and form, and in no way, shape or form either..lol..

 

 

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3 hours ago, Doug1066 said:

I survived another surgery.  Now I get to repeat the last three weeks of the healing process.  Going to be a long winter.

DOUG

Hi Doug

Take care and get better

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6 hours ago, Doug1066 said:

I survived another surgery.  Now I get to repeat the last three weeks of the healing process.  Going to be a long winter.

DOUG

It will get better.:wub:

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2 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

I was being kind, only, it takes a special perspective to see it thus.

In any event, I can agree that meditation is an exploration, "of the Kingdom of GOD", although there are other names too, only, to be able to abide in THAT place, there can be no thoughts whatsoever, no narratives, no conclusions, and you get the picture?

This Kingdom is GOD, and the more one abides there - two things happen, (maybe more).

The first is that the ego dies. Like an over-inflated bubble, with a slow puncture. The ego loses its influence and so the higher mind is engaged.

And the second thing that happens is that one is filled with THAT, strangely enough, as the ego shrinks, the Divine is known (more so). Until one is THAT in every way shape and form, and in no way, shape or form either..lol..

 

 

The higher mind? :D
 

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4 minutes ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi Sherapy

High minded?:huh::lol:

Ahhahahahahaha super duper high minded…

:lol:
 

 

Edited by Sherapy
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8 hours ago, Doug1066 said:

I survived another surgery.  Now I get to repeat the last three weeks of the healing process.  Going to be a long winter.

DOUG

Well my friend it's wonderful hear you made it through, and healing is certainly much but better than the alternative. I can sympathize with your situation, I have been through it myself a number of times, except my surgeries are spinal, and it looks like I am going to let the doctors try one more time to fix me, I am at the point where many days it's no longer worth getting up every morning. Hopeful this time it will help me, so I understand what you mean about it being a long winter ahead.

Sincerly my friend I hope everything turns out great for you, in my case and at my age if things don't work out well I dont have that much longer to worry about it. I can always go back to medications until its my time.

Peace my friend!:tu:

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36 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Well my friend it's wonderful hear you made it through, and healing is certainly much but better than the alternative. I can sympathize with your situation, I have been through it myself a number of times, except my surgeries are spinal, and it looks like I am going to let the doctors try one more time to fix me, I am at the point where many days it's no longer worth getting up every morning. Hopeful this time it will help me, so I understand what you mean about it being a long winter ahead.

Sincerly my friend I hope everything turns out great for you, in my case and at my age if things don't work out well I dont have that much longer to worry about it. I can always go back to medications until its my time.

Peace my friend!:tu:

All the best to you.:wub:

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9 minutes ago, Sherapy said:

All the best to you.:wub:

Thanks my friend, I appreciate your thoughts very much!:tu:

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On 11/7/2021 at 5:56 AM, Will Due said:

This is just one example of the many questions people have about the accuracies, or the suspected lack thereof, of what is written in the Bible regarding the historical facts surrounding the life of Jesus.

Will, that stuff Abramelin was talking about is not biblical. I know that doesn't make any difference because you make up a non-biblical assertion on the fly. It's all smoke and mirrors!! So, YHWH doesn't like it when you add or subtract from His word.

 "If anyone makes an addition to these things,God will add to him the plagues that are written in this scroll; and if anyone takes anything away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God will take his portion away from the trees of life." Rev. 22: 18-19

Edited by larryp
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2 hours ago, larryp said:

Will, that stuff Abramelin was talking about is not biblical. I know that doesn't make any difference because you make up a non-biblical assertion on the fly. It's all smoke and mirrors!! So, YHWH doesn't like it when you add or subtract from His word.

 "If anyone makes an addition to these things,God will add to him the plagues that are written in this scroll; and if anyone takes anything away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God will take his portion away from the trees of life." Rev. 22: 18-19

Wow.  You thought that out well.  God must hate his Biblical authors.

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2 hours ago, larryp said:

Will, that stuff Abramelin was talking about is not biblical. I know that doesn't make any difference because you make up a non-biblical assertion on the fly. It's all smoke and mirrors!! So, YHWH doesn't like it when you add or subtract from His word.

 "If anyone makes an addition to these things,God will add to him the plagues that are written in this scroll; and if anyone takes anything away from the words of the scroll of this prophecy, God will take his portion away from the trees of life." Rev. 22: 18-19

What faith do you practice, and please don't say Christian be more specific.:tu:

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23 hours ago, eight bits said:

Who fears death either fears the loss of sensation or else fears a different kind of sensation. But if you shall have no sensation, then neither will you feel any harm; and if you shall acquire another kind of sensation, then you will be a different kind of living being and you will not cease to live.

The Meditations of Ma

rcus Aurelius 8:50

(Now that's a book.)

 

I have never followed the philosophies of Marcus Aurelius, or really been exposed to the finer things as far as Poetry and Philosophy are Concerned. But, the quote you posted makes a great deal of sense to me, and strikes my heart. So I did a little reading about Marcus, and I am impressed so I have one I found that I will share because it also fits the content of this thread.

Thanks much for sharing I truly appreciate it!:tu:

3BC73539-825B-4DB2-8F0A-ADB7F026D9B5-13664-00000B6965EA3850.jpg

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On 11/7/2021 at 1:48 PM, joc said:

There is no 'factual evidence' that Christ was even a man. 

  • SUETONIUS

    (c. 69–a. 122 C.E.) In his Lives of the Caesars, this Roman historian recorded events during the reigns of the first 11 Roman emperors. The section on Claudius refers to turmoil among the Jews in Rome that was likely caused by disputes over Jesus. (Acts 18:2) Suetonius wrote: “Since the Jews constantly made disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus [Christus], he [Claudius] expelled them from Rome.” (The Deified Claudius, XXV, 4)  Although wrongly accusing Jesus of creating disturbances, Suetonius did not doubt his existence.

 

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the details!
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10 hours ago, Sherapy said:

The higher mind? :D
 

You don't know the higher mind...?

Hmmm.

Well, one has the debased ego mind, working for selfish reasons, working with ignorant attitudes which is the actual cause of suffering etc..

And then one has the higher mind, which is more noble, honest and kind hearted etc.

 

 

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44 minutes ago, larryp said:
  • SUETONIUS

    (c. 69–a. 122 C.E.) In his Lives of the Caesars, this Roman historian recorded events during the reigns of the first 11 Roman emperors. The section on Claudius refers to turmoil among the Jews in Rome that was likely caused by disputes over Jesus. (Acts 18:2) Suetonius wrote: “Since the Jews constantly made disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus [Christus], he [Claudius] expelled them from Rome.” (The Deified Claudius, XXV, 4)  Although wrongly accusing Jesus of creating disturbances, Suetonius did not doubt his existence.

 

Which Jesus are you talking about, you do realize that during the time period and events you describe Jusus was a common name in all regions where the Biblical Jesus is depicted in the Bible. 

So with that said how do you know the quote you made above actually describes the Bible's Jesus. 

In addition to gain a complete understand of Jesus and his mother Mary you must also study the Muslim Quran, if you haven't you don have the complete story. Since those Jewish faith did not except Jesus as the messiah the old testimont doesn't include much about Jesus, but during this blank portion of history the Muslim Quran covers that historical period in depth. 

 

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2 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

3BC73539-825B-4DB2-8F0A-ADB7F026D9B5-13664-00000B6965EA3850.jpg

That is a notorious meme. While it does express one kind of "Roman virtue," it is not a quote from Marcus Aurelius. nor would he entirely agree with it. Marcus was contemptuous of post-mortem reputation. "Fame after life is no better than oblivion." (Meditations 2.15*) He does express uncertainty about whether or not there is an afterlife throughout the work, but was confident that his gods existed and were virtuous. His most quoted "if there are no gods ..." is at 2:8* I think:

And as for death, if there be any gods, it is no grievous thing to leave the society of men. The gods will do thee no hurt, thou mayest be sure. But if it be so that there be no gods, or that they take no care of the world, why should I desire to live in a world void of gods, and of all divine providence? But gods there be certainly, and they take care for the world

Personally, I lack the fortitude to be a Stoic, and besides I like to complain about things I dislike. Thus I like the meme quote, even if it isn't Marcus. It reminds me of a discussion here at UM one time, not far from the topic of the current thread: religion and "moral compass." It was remarked there that one of the oldest forms of religion, ancestor veneration, provided what I thought was an outstanding compass: Live so that your descendants are proud to have you as an ancestor.

----
* There is no single standard numbering of paragraphs for the Meditations. The division into 12 books is standard, but paragraphs hadn't been invented yet in Marcus's time. I use the "Casaubon" numbering, but for example, his 2.8 is 2.11 in some other editions.

Edited by eight bits
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Just to dust off a few points while I finish my second cup of joe:

1 hour ago, larryp said:

SUETONIUS

(c. 69–a. 122 C.E.) In his Lives of the Caesars, this Roman historian recorded events during the reigns of the first 11 Roman emperors. The section on Claudius refers to turmoil among the Jews in Rome that was likely caused by disputes over Jesus. (Acts 18:2) Suetonius wrote: “Since the Jews constantly made disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus [Christus], he [Claudius] expelled them from Rome.” (The Deified Claudius, XXV, 4)

There're actually good reasons to think that Suetonius meant Chrestus with an e. For one thing, Chrestus was a somewhat common downmarket name or nickname. For another, Suetonius knows the word Christian with an i; one of Nero's accomplishments was to regulate them along with other public nuisances Suetonius says (Nero 16). Then there's the incovenience that Claudius's reign began in 41 CE, while Pilate's term ended in 36 or early 37. Finally, for somebody who regualrly instructs others in what's biblical, do you happen to recall which gospel tells us that Jesus ever visited Rome?

Acts 18:2 gives no information about why Claudius expelled the Jews from Rome. It wouldn't take much. According to Josephus, Tiberius did the same thing because four Jewish con-men scammed one Roman matron (Antiquities 18.3).

 

1 hour ago, Crazy Horse said:

We could start with this idea of the higher mind!

Marcus Aurelius had something to say about that, too, or about people who brag about their lack of mere ego (who could that be?):

For someone to be proud and conceited that he is not proud and conceited is of all kinds of pride and presumption the most intolerable.

Meditations 12.20

Edited by eight bits
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17 minutes ago, eight bits said:

That is a notorious meme. While it does express one kind of "Roman virtue," it is not a quote from Marcus Aurelius. nor would he entirely agree with it. Marcus was contemptuous of post-mortem reputation. "Fame after life is no better than oblivion." (Meditations 2.15*) He does express uncertainty about whether or not there is an afterlife throughout the work, but was confident that his gods existed and were virtuous. His most quoted "if there are no gods ..." is at 2:8* I think:

And as for death, if there be any gods, it is no grievous thing to leave the society of men. The gods will do thee no hurt, thou mayest be sure. But if it be so that there be no gods, or that they take no care of the world, why should I desire to live in a world void of gods, and of all divine providence? But gods there be certainly, and they take care for the world

Personally, I lack the fortitude to be a Stoic, and besides I like to complain about things I dislike. Thus I like the meme quote, even if it isn't Marcus. It reminds me of a discussion here at UM one time, not far from the topic of the current thread: religion and "moral compass." It was remarked there that one of the oldest forms of religion, ancestor veneration, provided what I thought was an outstanding compass: Live so that your descendants are proud to have you as an ancestor.

----
* There is no single standard numbering of paragraphs for the Meditations. The division into 12 books is standard, but paragraphs hadn't been invented yet in Marcus's time. I use the "Casaubon" numbering, but for example, his 2.8 is 2.11 in some other editions.

Thanks for the information, like said in my post I have no true experience with poetry or basic philosophy. With the exception of Buddhist philosophies, although only Korean which .I have been practicing for years now. I am a retired US military expatriate living in South Korea for approximately 7 years now not counting my military service in country. I have been married to a Korean since 1986 from a prominent Korean family and heritage. We meet and married in the US when I was stationed at Ft, Stewart, Georgia she was a Korean exchange student going to school in Savannah Georgia when we meet. 

I am going to find myself a copy of the Marcus Arelious meditations you have peaked an interest in me, and I am anal when that occurs. All my life I have had a thirst for knowledge based upon my Military occupational speciality which Technical Escort, the most advanced branch of the US Chemical Corp's, so my education was based in degrees in Biology and Chemistry with hundreds of hours of hands on training at special facilities. After my retirement I worked as a Government Contractor in Middle Eastern operations, doing basically the same thing I did in the Military except in place of Biological and Nuclear Warfare, I was working in  Bioterrorism, Chemical, and Nuclear Terrorism same thing different terminology.

You know your comment about the oldest religions was interesting, shame I missed that thread. I did paper on the subject once as part of a college subcourse. Truly the oldest religion is the Earth Mother practices, in fact the oldest religious icons were figurines made of a baked clay in the shape of pregnant female figure and they are approximately 35,000 years old. Ancestor Worship and Veneration began to my knowledge with the earliest evidence being in China in the Yangshao society which existed in the Shaanxi Province area before spreading to parts of northern and central China during the Neolithic period 6000 to 1000 BCE. 

However, it is alive and well today as a part of the Buddhist Philosophy and other Shaministic religious practices here in Korea. Twice a year there are specific holiday traditions where it is practiced, and I have actually take part in the ceremonies since 2014. Along with English I speak Germany fluently, Korean almost fluently and some Arabic and decent Kurdish. So in the Korean ceremonies I fully participate and a member of the extended family.

Thanks for the post, I appreciate it, and thanks for turning me on to Marcus and his writings I think that will be some great readings. Last, thanks for identifying the quote as a fake, I never would have known the difference, many Quotes from Buddha are also faked, but by studying the Dharma which consist of Buddha's teachings, his true quotes are essily found there.

Peace my friend and .I am grateful for your time hope to get into a discussion with you sometime. :tu:

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When thinking about ancestor worship it's usually thought about as something that's not a part of modern western society.

 

Ancestor worship onetime constituted a decided advance in religious evolution, but it is both amazing and regrettable that this primitive concept persists in China, Japan, and India amidst so much that is relatively more advanced, such as Buddhism and Hinduism. In the Occident, ancestor worship developed into the veneration of national gods and respect for racial heroes. In the twentieth century this hero-venerating nationalistic religion makes its appearance in the various radical and nationalistic secularisms which characterize many races and nations of the Occident. Much of this same attitude is also found in the great universities and the larger industrial communities of the English-speaking peoples.

 

Source

 

 

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Gutei 's finger but with one eye missing...

Quote

 

[00.03:42]

~

 

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