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The Harm Done By Religion


Doug1066
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2 hours ago, Will Due said:

 

When thinking about ancestor worship it's usually thought about as something that's not a part of modern western society.

 

Ancestor worship onetime constituted a decided advance in religious evolution, but it is both amazing and regrettable that this primitive concept persists in China, Japan, and India amidst so much that is relatively more advanced, such as Buddhism and Hinduism. In the Occident, ancestor worship developed into the veneration of national gods and respect for racial heroes. In the twentieth century this hero-venerating nationalistic religion makes its appearance in the various radical and nationalistic secularisms which characterize many races and nations of the Occident. Much of this same attitude is also found in the great universities and the larger industrial communities of the English-speaking peoples.

 

Source

 

 

Hey will your link doesn't work, but that's cool!:) 

Will when say that any religious form that is not part of modern western society you make me chuckle, but Will your logic concerning that comment is slightly skewed. You see when the South Asian and East Asian civilizations began practicing early forms of religions western civilizations did yet not exist. But to make my point more clear Ancestor Worship begin in the Neolithic period approximately 6000 BCE..

But above you state that it's sad that Ancestor Worship persists in China, Japan, and India amidst so much that is relatively more advanced, such as Buddhism and Hinduism. Will the bolded comments you made are completely inaccurate, Ancestor Worship is a part of both Buddhism and Hinduism and its practiced to this day. In addition Buddhism and Hinduism are branches from the same tree and they both first began in India and proof of this is the fact the oldest known original texts fir both are written in Sanskrit. 

The first religious Practices that actually produced religious Icons began approximately 24,000 years before any other form of religion was even conceived. The beautiful lady below is approximately 30,000 years old,  and she is the earliest form of a religious Icon discovered to date, but she is not alone, there have been others like her found, this young lady has been named she is the Venus of Willendorf. The Venus of Willendorf is a 4.4-inch tall carving discovered in Willendorf, Austria. It is believed to have been crafted between 30,000 and 25,000 BCE, these statues were sculpted to represent a fertility Godess or the Earth Mother. 

You see Will the religious worship of the Earth Mother was the first religion identified to date, and it still exists today and it's practiced by Druids. The supple Breasts appear to filled with Milk, and the protruding stomach denotes pregnancy or fertility. Now the Homo Sapiens who created these statues were anatomically exactly the same as we are today so they actually should not be confused with Archaic Humans. The reason the religious practice of worshipping the Earth Mother began was becsuse in 30,000 BCE mankind were still hunter gathers, and everything they needed came from Mother Earth. Winter would come the mother would become barren, but as soon as spring arrived life burst from the Mother. She could also become angry and when this occurred there would be natural disasters.

5076DD71-20E9-4BC2-BCAA-4B0E138FD541-13664-00000BCE953E6716.jpg.49bffb2edd1a78985c923d35745ec245.jpg

 

Peace Will.

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15 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Well my friend it's wonderful hear you made it through, and healing is certainly much but better than the alternative. I can sympathize with your situation, I have been through it myself a number of times, except my surgeries are spinal, and it looks like I am going to let the doctors try one more time to fix me, I am at the point where many days it's no longer worth getting up every morning. Hopeful this time it will help me, so I understand what you mean about it being a long winter ahead.

Sincerly my friend I hope everything turns out great for you, in my case and at my age if things don't work out well I dont have that much longer to worry about it. I can always go back to medications until its my time.

Peace my friend!:tu:

There's always someone who is worse off than me.

Doug

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47 minutes ago, Doug1066 said:

There's always someone who is worse off than me.

Doug

But we are always worse off than somebody else. Remember that. You deserve self-care and well-wishes, too!

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Posted (IP: Staff) ·

Thread cleaned, again. Folks, stop with the derogatory commentary and discussing each other. Keep the conversation civil and on topic please. 

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11 hours ago, Crazy Horse said:

You don't know the higher mind...?

Hmmm.

Well, one has the debased ego mind, working for selfish reasons, working with ignorant attitudes which is the actual cause of suffering etc..

And then one has the higher mind, which is more noble, honest and kind hearted etc.

 

 

Angel And Devil GIFs | Tenor

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4 hours ago, Doug1066 said:

There's always someone who is worse off than me.

Doug

That's always the way I look at it, never stop looking at it that way when you really feel bad and you will always have the strength to carry on. 

Peace

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On 11/8/2021 at 2:47 AM, Manwon Lender said:

". . . you no matter your Station or position in life you have no right to chastise anyone for their beliefs.

Again, I wouldn't characterize it like you. We present the truth, and you can do what you want with it. Got it?

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23 minutes ago, larryp said:

Again, I wouldn't characterize it like you. We present the truth, and you can do what you want with it. Got it?

Hi Larry

Your truth? Truth is subjective and so is interpretation, my truth works for me and doesn’t dictate to others how to live. How I live is an example of what I believe 

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On 11/8/2021 at 6:21 AM, Liquid Gardens said:

 Are these misrepresentations and slander going to harm god in some way?  Of course not, God shouldn't care about misrepresentation by relative insects any more than Godzilla does . . ."

Your thoughts are not YHWH's thoughts.  

"How often they rebelled against him in the wilderness And made him feel hurt in the desert! Again and again they put God to the test, And they grieved  the Holy One of Israel."  Psalm 78:40-4

So, as you can see, it's emotionally disturbing to YHWH when He's misrepresented.
 

Edited by larryp
the details!
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20 minutes ago, larryp said:

So, as you can see, it's emotionally disturbing to YHWH.

So god is jealous AND emotionally disturbed?

Doesn't sound like much of a god...

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3 minutes ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

So god is jealous AND emotionally disturbed?

Doesn't sound like much of a god...

My friend it's not the belief that shewed here it an individual interpretation of those scriptures, and even religious tradition across the world today there are those who twist the scriptural teaching into an unorthodox belief system. Thankfully these pretenders make up only a small part of those who practice their faith on a personal level and wish no one any harm for their different views of their beliefs.

A very good example of this is the Muslim faith, 80% plus of all Muslims worldwide practice their beliefs peacefully and never dream of forcing them upon anyone who chooses a different faith. But, because of the extremism elements that exist far too many people paint them all with one brush. I lived and worked in Middle East for almost 10 1/2 years after I retired from the US Military as a contractor. The majority of those people are just like us, they cry like us, they bleed like us, and they want the exact same things we do that's a better life for their children. 

Enough said this.always bothers me a bit! :tu:

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On 11/8/2021 at 6:20 PM, Mr Walker said:

I understand both theoretically/academically, and practically, the psychological and cognitive needs and make up of the human mind.   

YHWH

Really!  LOL . . .

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God's name is Jealous. He is like the masculine representation of the universe. Being made in his image this jealousy can be understood and emanates through the whole universe. When people have the childish thought about God being high-above it and that a god should control his emotions around the microscopic human species they are really imaging a smaller whisp of air.

The way the Israelites treated the situation in Exodus is not how men would usually handle the situation. They really had no pain tolerance when they would decide to stone Moses. It is an absurd extreme on how to handle the situation. I would have thought in my youth that people didn't act like this anymore, and that these were just examples. Then I met people making these same absurd decisions. These people almost always have some kind of serious thing wrong with them that they hide, and I have watched them march right into prison literally among other things.

Edited by The_Phantom_Stranger
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10 minutes ago, larryp said:

smoke and mirrors!

Hi Larry

Ahhh, yes of course, why didn’t I see this earlier, it’s the god of smoke and mirrors, well that clears up a lot of confusion.:tu::whistle::lol:

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4 minutes ago, The_Phantom_Stranger said:

God's name is Jealous. He is like the masculine representation of the universe. Being made in his image this jealousy can be understood and emanates through the whole universe. When people have the childish thought about God being high-above it and that a god should control his emotions around the microscopic human species they are really imaging a smaller whisp of air.

The way the Israelites treated the situation in Exodus is not how men would usually handle the situation. They really had no pain tolerance when they would decide to stone Moses. It is an absurd extreme on how to handle the situation. I would have thought in my youth that people didn't act like this anymore, and that these were just examples. Then I met people making these same absurd decisions. These people almost always have some kind of serious thing wrong with them that they hide, and I have watched them march right into prison literally among other things.

Hmm you don’t say

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34 minutes ago, larryp said:

smoke and mirrors!

Exodus 20 : 5

Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;

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48 minutes ago, The_Phantom_Stranger said:

God's name is Jealous. He is like the masculine representation of the universe.

If you think the universe is a slave master that is.

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1 hour ago, larryp said:

smoke and mirrors!

I am going to attempt to communicate with you in a different manner, first I am going to open up and give you some personal background on myself. I am a retired US Military expatriate living in South Korea, I have a Korean wife, we have been married 34 years and we are both are practicing Buddhists. According to my spiritual beliefs all religious beliefs are excepted and according to the Buddhist Philosophy which is based upon the Dharma which are Buddhas teachings all people are excepted at face value. 

Buddhism is based upon a set of very simple principles every experience we have in life whether we created it or it occurred and it was beyond our control are based on Cause and Effect. While we may not be able to control the Cause of all situations that develop within our lives we are responsible in all cases for the Effect without excuse. In simple terms in my spiritual beliefs there are no omnipotence detiys that no all, have created all, and that are prayed to resolve our sins. We believe that all men are responsible for their individual actions good or bad, and that everything we do effects our Karma which is the collection of all our actions through life from birth to death.

We believe that our bad Karma must be atoned for by actions that are good and noble or when we Shed this body at death all of our unatoned for negative actions will not only follow us through the reincarnation process it will also effect our next reincarnated form in a positive or negative way. This process of reincarnation will continue until we have corrected the way our thoughts are formed in a negative manner, gained control of our Ego, and have been able to cut all ties with past events that cause everyone pain and suffering. Once we have reached a point of purity of thought through control of actions and no longer have anything to atone for it is possible to reach a state known by two names Enlightenment or Nirvana then when we die the reincarnation process stops. 

At this point we become a being of pure energy and all the mysteries of every kind become knowledge and there are no longer any suffering, pain, or misery. Now in this state we can go or do anything we choose to but we are unable to effect or communicate with the mortal realm of existance. We are finally at peace and have no limitations except those I mentioned previously. Now that is a basic over view and not the complete process, but there is one other thing I should mention. Buddhists do not attempt to change the spiritual views of others, and we do try in any fashion to convert anyone to our spiritual beliefs. The only way someone can become a Buddhist is to ask about the spiritual process and and then and only then will other Buddhists assist that person and help them find the path. 

 

Now Let me ask you a simple question why do you come here and intentionally try to make people angry?

I am being sincere I really don't understand you motivation, no matter what anyone says no one wants to be alone, no one wants to be disliked, and no one wants to be spoken to and thought of like your actions make other think of you. 

I apologize for my previous comments to you please answer the qeustiin above.

 

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14 hours ago, onlookerofmayhem said:

So god is jealous AND emotionally disturbed?

Doesn't sound like much of a god...

Most gods in human history have not been exactly  mild mannered, or nice, beings 

At best they represent the extremes of human emotions and are often portrayed as how humans would be if we wielded great power.

ie where do you get the idea that  a god must be always be loving,  kind, gentle, nice, or fair ?  

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11 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

I am going to attempt to communicate with you in a different manner, first I am going to open up and give you some personal background on myself. I am a retired US Military expatriate living in South Korea, I have a Korean wife, we have been married 34 years and we are both are practicing Buddhists. According to my spiritual beliefs all religious beliefs are excepted and according to the Buddhist Philosophy which is based upon the Dharma which are Buddhas teachings all people are excepted at face value. 

Buddhism is based upon a set of very simple principles every experience we have in life whether we created it or it occurred and it was beyond our control are based on Cause and Effect. While we may not be able to control the Cause of all situations that develop within our lives we are responsible in all cases for the Effect without excuse. In simple terms in my spiritual beliefs there are no omnipotence detiys that no all, have created all, and that are prayed to resolve our sins. We believe that all men are responsible for their individual actions good or bad, and that everything we do effects our Karma which is the collection of all our actions through life from birth to death.

We believe that our bad Karma must be atoned for by actions that are good and noble or when we Shed this body at death all of our unatoned for negative actions will not only follow us through the reincarnation process it will also effect our next reincarnated form in a positive or negative way. This process of reincarnation will continue until we have corrected the way our thoughts are formed in a negative manner, gained control of our Ego, and have been able to cut all ties with past events that cause everyone pain and suffering. Once we have reached a point of purity of thought through control of actions and no longer have anything to atone for it is possible to reach a state known by two names Enlightenment or Nirvana then when we die the reincarnation process stops. 

At this point we become a being of pure energy and all the mysteries of every kind become knowledge and there are no longer any suffering, pain, or misery. Now in this state we can go or do anything we choose to but we are unable to effect or communicate with the mortal realm of existance. We are finally at peace and have no limitations except those I mentioned previously. Now that is a basic over view and not the complete process, but there is one other thing I should mention. Buddhists do not attempt to change the spiritual views of others, and we do try in any fashion to convert anyone to our spiritual beliefs. The only way someone can become a Buddhist is to ask about the spiritual process and and then and only then will other Buddhists assist that person and help them find the path. 

 

Now Let me ask you a simple question why do you come here and intentionally try to make people angry?

I am being sincere I really don't understand you motivation, no matter what anyone says no one wants to be alone, no one wants to be disliked, and no one wants to be spoken to and thought of like your actions make other think of you. 

I apologize for my previous comments to you please answer the qeustiin above.

 

I can't speak for larryp specifically. but many devout believers (from all religions) sincerely believe that the y  have an answer which applies to all human beings.

It works for them, and thus the y believe it must work for all . Such people can be pushy and abrasive but may not be intentionally  annoying another 

The y may realise they are annoying others but believe this is necessary in order to help them or to show them a  truth.

  Often this happens because the  truly love others and want to help them. 

It is not limited to religion.  Devout believers in vegetarianism,  environmentalism etc can be the same. 

 

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14 hours ago, larryp said:

YHWH

Really!  LOL . . .

Yup. really  :) 

I understand both theoretically/academically, and practically, the psychological and cognitive needs and make up of the human mind.   

It has been part  of  my professional and personal life for  almost 50 years.  (longer of you count the fact that. as the eldest of 4 siblings i was often responsible for their happiness, care and wellbeing. )

It was a significant part of my paid career for 45 years as an educator,  and my designated  (and paid ) role as counsellor for students, staff and parents for a decade 

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24 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

I can't speak for larryp specifically. but many devout believers (from all religions) sincerely believe that the y  have an answer which applies to all human beings.

It works for them, and thus the y believe it must work for all . Such people can be pushy and abrasive but may not be intentionally  annoying another 

The y may realise they are annoying others but believe this is necessary in order to help them or to show them a  truth.

  Often this happens because the  truly love others and want to help them. 

It is not limited to religion.  Devout believers in vegetarianism,  environmentalism etc can be the same. 

 

Let me be very clear Mr. Walker with all do respect. When anyone from any country, and from any religion threatens others with the wrath of their deity or is not tolerate of other faiths they are not spreading their beliefs out of any form of love or compassion. They are just like I described young Larry a religious Zealot / Extremist and it's pretty obvious in this case that is the case, so I am sorry my friend we must agree to disagree! :tu:

Namaste! 

 

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Modern psychiatry has begun categorizing fundamentalist thinking as a form of mental illness/disorder.

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7 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Let me be very clear Mr. Walker with all do respect. When anyone from any country, and from any religion threatens others with the wrath of their deity or is not tolerate of other faiths they are not spreading their beliefs out of any form of love or compassion. They are just like I described young Larry a religious Zealot / Extremist and it's pretty obvious in this case that is the case, so I am sorry my friend we must agree to disagree! :tu:

Namaste! 

 

But it is NOT that clear or simple 

I know many people who believe that after death your  beliefs and behaviours in this world influence your future 

For them the y want others to "know "understand this so that their behaviours and beliefs in this world don't cause them greater harm in the future one 

Of course it is only belief but its not  hurtful belief.

It comes from   compassion and caring for others.

They think the y are helping others to gain eternal life, free of fear pain suffering and death.

It may hurt them deeply to see others living a life the y believe condemns them to death or even some form of hell. 

The more the y care, the harder the y try and argue to  convert others.   

extremist ?yes

Zealous ? Yes.

But they are  not necessarily negative words 

Anyone who cares deeply and passionately is an extremist and zealous to another person who disagrees with their beliefs

When it comes to real world issues I argue passionately and strongly  to try and get people to live lives which will strength and  empower them, and allow them to be fulfilled and happy even if that makes them cranky with me  . I stop just short of arguing for society /govts   forcing  them  into changes  because every adult is responsible for their own behaviours . .   

there are plenty of  "extremist"  passionate,  zealous environmentalists, who want everyone to live sustainable lives.

Some go so far as to cause  govt.s to make laws which affect other peoples freedoms , and which many  disagree with    but which they see as essential to save the planet  

 

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