Why I gave up on Extinction Rebellion

[Guest Br Cornelius]

5 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Doom and gloom.  Our chance of surviving is large.  Our chance of surviving with a high quality of environmental health less and less though.

Showing again that you really have a very superficial grasp of the issues. The environment is in a much worse state than most people are aware of, its parallels to the other great extinctions is frightening and well documented by real scientists.

The massive uptick in wildfires north of the arctic circle and Sibera is one of the key tipping points of run away climate change and a point of no return as it represents a positive feedback loop that causes more wildfires and hence more carbon release.

 

Br Cornelius

Edited September 8, 2021 by Br Cornelius

[+OverSword]

57 minutes ago, Myles said:

That is all true, but I think it is too little too late.   Especially when China refuses to slow its pollution.   

There is nothing wrong with supplementing utilities.  I have a small solar system that feed my deep freezer.  It's not much, but it it something.   

It is too late.  The permafrost in Siberia is thawing.  As it thaws it releases CO2 into the air causing more warming, causing more thawing, causing more CO2 release.  The tipping point is past, the planet had stored CO2 in the bank and the bank is releasing it and nothing will stop that short of a large impact possibly.

Edited September 8, 2021 by OverSword

[+OverSword]

7 minutes ago, Br Cornelius said:

I certainly would, and its obvious you haven't actually been to any.

 

Br Cornelius

There is one in front of city hall every Friday and I work across the street.  The people that show up are the definition of virtue signalers.

Edited September 8, 2021 by OverSword

[+OverSword]

5 minutes ago, Br Cornelius said:

Showing again that you really have a very superficial grasp of the issues. The environment is in a much worse state than most people are aware of, its parallels to the other great extinctions is frightening and well documented by real scientists.

The massive uptick in wildfires north of the arctic circle and Sibera is one of the key tipping points of run away climate change and a point of no return as it represents a positive feedback loop that causes more wildfires and hence more carbon release.

 

Br Cornelius

I'm not denying that.  I'm saying humans won't go extinct.  Civilization as we know it may drastically change or we may use our intellect to figure out a way to continue to exploit the planet for our own benefit and continue to grow technologically 

[Guest Br Cornelius]

2 minutes ago, OverSword said:

I'm not denying that.  I'm saying humans won't go extinct.  Civilization as we know it may drastically change or we may use our intellect to figure out a way to continue to exploit the planet for our own benefit and continue to grow technologically 

Such is the hubris of a species which believes it is separate from its ecosystem.  I do not share your confidence in our ability to adapt. I see the outcome been mans typical response of increased fighting over diminishing resources and given the ease with which we can wipe out all life on the planet I see a trigger point causing us to self destruct by mistake - each point of conflict diminishes our ability to respond to environmental pressure.

 

Br Cornelius

[+OverSword]

1 minute ago, Br Cornelius said:

Such is the hubris of a species which believes it is separate from its ecosystem.  I do not share your confidence in our ability to adapt. I see the outcome been mans typical response of increased fighting over diminishing resources and given the ease with which we can wipe out all life on the planet I see a trigger point causing us to self destruct by mistake - each point of conflict diminishes our ability to respond to environmental pressure.

 

Br Cornelius

Well then in that case you know the tipping point already occurred and ever growing amounts of CO2 are and will be released into the atmosphere, so what's the point in protesting or continuing?  The truth is our intelligent species will figure ways to continue to exist.  While people like you are bemoaning our ability to exist on this planet there are others paving the way to live on a planet infinitely more hostile than this one and they believe they can overcome the obstacles to doing so.  Good luck to them, I personally have my doubts but I respect their vision and enthusiasm.  They are not Doom Sayers.  Some of us are.  Some are also convinced the anti-christ will destroy the world and Jesus will return and rebuild it.  Who knows.  

 

[Doug1066]

On 9/7/2021 at 10:40 AM, XenoFish said:

If you really wanted to "save the planet", you'd need to really live off grid. With either no power or low power from solar and homestead. 

For billions of people to live off-grid is not very practical and might even be more environmentally destructive than what we're doing.  We need to shift toward zero carbon emissions for everybody and we can do it by 2050, if we will.

 

I found the story on those turbine towers I see going through town every day.  When the Kingfisher Wind Farm learned that Trump would defund the wind program, they made use of the grandfather clause that said any tower under construction on December 31, 2019 would qualify for the program, and poured concrete for 400 tower foundations.  They are now putting up the towers.  That program allows energy companies to keep half of the reduced costs of wind power generation, sharing the rest among their customers for ten years following activation of the turbine.  The savings is paying for the towers.  Each of those 400 sites rents at $8000 a month.  Towers are built at a density of one tower per 40 acres, making the rental $200 per acre per month.  That's more profitable than any crop, so landowners are happy to lease the land.

Assuming that the program is renewed by the Infrastructure bills, the result will be to continue construction without even a pause.

One Oklahoma oil well and one Oklahoma wind mill each cost about $3 million.  About one in six wells are a dry hole.  The oil well produces most of its crude during its first five years of operation, gradually diminishing to nothing at about 20 years.  The wind mill produces a steady revenue stream for all 20 years until it gets decommissioned, usually at about 20 years.  Monetary efficiency, in this case, goes to wind.

Doug

 

 

Edited September 8, 2021 by Doug1066

[XenoFish]

I know what we need. A near extinction event caused by a pandemic and economic collapse. All we need is..... oh, wait.... silly me.

[LV-426]

45 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Do you deny that the majority of environmental protesting in the west is done by people that drove one or two people to a vehicle to the protest and while protesting drink from single use water bottles?  Virtue signaling.  Change starts at home.

 

Not to mention the fabulously wealthy Hollywood luvvies that inform us we can't enjoy foriegn holidays... while jetting around the globe to attend protests

 

HYPOCRISY WATCH: Emma Thompson Flies A Long Way To Save The Environment

"It’s enough that actress Emma Thompson joined environmental extremists last week who sought to shut down London’s Heathrow Airport to disrupt holiday travel plans at one of the world’s busiest airports.

It’s quite another that she felt entitled to flex her big carbon footprint to fly to London from Los Angeles to protest people flying too much. She flew in for the protest even though event organizers believe airplanes should “only be used for emergencies.”"

[+OverSword]

7 minutes ago, LV-426 said:

HYPOCRISY WATCH: Emma Thompson Flies A Long Way To Save The Environment

Got to love 'em 

Seriously I don't even know who she is.   

[LV-426]

1 minute ago, OverSword said:

Got to love 'em 

Seriously I don't even know who she is.   

 

Nanny McPhee, Harry Potter, Men in Black 'n' stuff!

[Doug1066]

1 hour ago, OverSword said:

It is too late.  The permafrost in Siberia is thawing.  As it thaws it releases CO2 into the air causing more warming, causing more thawing, causing more CO2 release.  The tipping point is past, the planet had stored CO2 in the bank and the bank is releasing it and nothing will stop that short of a large impact possibly.

If it is too late, then measurements of atmospheric methane should be going up.

This paper shows an increase, but does not express an opinion about source, even though they said they looked for one:

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1029/2008GL036037

This one notes that increases in CO2 are coevil with warming:

https://www.science.org/doi/abs/10.1126/science.273.5278.1087

This one projects a rise of 0.012C as a result of warming caused by methane release.

https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/2/4/045016/meta

 

The scientific literature recognizes the danger of the methane gun, but as of now, methane increases in the atmosphere and temperatures do not indicate a runaway warming trend - yet.

Doug