Did Ancient People Use Acid to Shape Stone?

[Hanslune]

5 hours ago, Piney said:

No, but the OP started a thread on the same subject when he first joined and was trounced by Hans and Swede. 

Did we? If so no point in going thru all this again...lol

[Hanslune]

8 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

A couple of names that will help you:

Colonel Percy Fawcett;

Hiram Bingham;

Davidovits;

Zoser;

Abramelin;

Some Peruvian bird.

And most of all: some common plant you can buy in any flowershop, a plant no one was able to identify. A plant with red, fleshy leaves, and about a foot high, growing next to a Bolivian river called Pirené or something. It eroded the metal on some cowboys boots when he was walking through a field covered with these plants.

Good luck.

 

 

Oh, was Fawcett into 'melted stone' before his lethal expedition?

[Abramelin]

For some reason I cannot edit my post.

Whatever.

I remember it was a thread called "Ancient Aliens debunked".

But I am not sure about that.

[Hanslune]

Just now, Abramelin said:

For some reason I cannot edit my post.

Whatever.

I remember it was a thread called "Ancient Aliens debunked".

But I am not sure about that.

If this goes on for awhile someone will find it. I'm busy at the moment.

[Abramelin]

1 minute ago, Hanslune said:

Oh, was Fawcett into 'melted stone' before his lethal expedition?

No, he reported about a plant that could soften stone.

Hiram Bingham, the one who discovered Macchu Pichu, also reported about that plant.

And one of them reported about a bird using that plant to create a hole in rock to create its nest.

[Windowpane]

21 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

...

Some Peruvian bird.

...

Er ... not this one ??

[Harte]

55 minutes ago, WVK said:

If you were to look at the video you will find the he agrees with established opinion,, not molded

Yeah...

That's not gonna happen.

Especially any video YOU post.

I don't like wasting what little time I have left.

If YOU were to read the book I linked, you would find that it answers your questions about ancient stone working.

Harte

Edited September 6, 2021 by Harte

[Abramelin]

2 minutes ago, Windowpane said:

Er ... not this one ??

No.

But I once told an ex of mine she could crumble a concrete wall by just yelling at it.

She was from Aruba, btw.

 

[Kenemet]

5 hours ago, WVK said:

Test have been done with surprising results

 

If they could cast blocks, why in the heck did they stop and make individual forms for each and every one, irregularly shaped, and with the back (which they never show) often filled in with odd shaped pebbles and small slabs of rock?

It'd be a lot faster to cast a bunch from the same shape mold, you know.  And those curve topped shapes and rounded surfaces... really hard to get right in a mold (not to mention the overhang.)

Now, hacking and polishing - much easier.  Whack the layer to bits and then fit it back together the way you found it in nature.  Easy-peasey.

[WVK]

1 hour ago, Kenemet said:

If they could cast blocks, why in the heck did they stop and make individual forms for each and every one, irregularly shaped, and with the back (which they never show) often filled in with odd shaped pebbles and small slabs of rock?

It'd be a lot faster to cast a bunch from the same shape mold, you know.  And those curve topped shapes and rounded surfaces... really hard to get right in a mold (not to mention the overhang.)

Now, hacking and polishing - much easier.  Whack the layer to bits and then fit it back together the way you found it in nature.  Easy-peasey.

This video describes chemical analysis, thin section analysis etc of the stone. It was part of an effort of the Peruvian government  to preserve the site from further deterioration. They brought in a teem of experts from Russia.  It contains nothing about cutting or shapeing iblocks.  I believe this is new information. The author concludes that it is highly unlikely that the blocks were molded.

[Hanslune]

3 hours ago, Kenemet said:

If they could cast blocks, why in the heck did they stop and make individual forms for each and every one, irregularly shaped, and with the back (which they never show) often filled in with odd shaped pebbles and small slabs of rock?

It'd be a lot faster to cast a bunch from the same shape mold, you know.  And those curve topped shapes and rounded surfaces... really hard to get right in a mold (not to mention the overhang.)

Now, hacking and polishing - much easier.  Whack the layer to bits and then fit it back together the way you found it in nature.  Easy-peasey.

Once upon a time I was debating the cast versus 'carved' with a fellow who said the AE made the stones look exactly like they were carved out to include putting fossils in them. I asked why they would have gone to all that unnecessary work. His response was that they didn't want "US" to know they had cast them so they made it look they were cut and shaped normally.  I asked WHY they would have cared or would want to do that?

"They had to do it because its was only way we can explain why they would have made them look like they were carved while in fact they cast them..........ah yeah.....

[Duke Wellington]

On 9/6/2021 at 12:11 AM, WVK said:

How did Pre- and Early Dynastic Egyptians hollow out vases from solid lumps of hard diorite and syenite rock? How did they create the tubular drill holes? How did the Dynastic Egyptians cut huge granite obelisks and intricate statues, and how did the Saite Period Egyptians cut, shape and polish their granite creations? These are questions that have long been debated and whilst the convention answers are metal tools, combined with water and sand, this isn't accepted by many. The Ancient Pre-Inca Peruvian stone walls have also been the subject of much speculation and whilst the experts say that rubbing them against one another will cause them to mold together, some of the stones are so intricate that this seems unlikely. They also have a find-grained, vitreous outer surface in places as well, as well as a finer grain size at the joints. A few months ago I did a video looking at the work of Helmut Tributsch, who wrote a paper claiming that acid, a by-product of Inca mines, was what was used to soften stone. In this video, I look at the work of Lia Mangolini and her idea that Hydrofluoric Acid, obtained from certain plants would have been farmed and used to soften, melt and mold stone. You can read her article from the Ancient Origins website at https://www.ancient-origins.net/histo.

 

Using rocks as an abrasive does not cause them to bond to stone.

Right now we can use blast drills where they put sand into high water jets and use it as a cutting tool. Putting aside the modern versions, then to get water to the correct pressure would require just a tall column of water. The weight of the water itself pushing downwards, combined with a hole at the bottom of the tower to let a water jet out, would do it.

Drill bits are not a new invention either, they have been around for more than 10,000 years. What is new is putting electric motors on them. Back in the time of the pyramids they would have been manually powered. 

Building the pyramids does not require ramps or roller logs. They can simply bury what has been built so far in sand, raise the block to be moved putting sand below it, and creating a sand pathway to the buried partial pyramid.

[Hanslune]

13 hours ago, Cookie Monster said:

Using rocks as an abrasive does not cause them to bond to stone.

Right now we can use blast drills where they put sand into high water jets and use it as a cutting tool. Putting aside the modern versions, then to get water to the correct pressure would require just a tall column of water. The weight of the water itself pushing downwards, combined with a hole at the bottom of the tower to let a water jet out, would do it.

Drill bits are not a new invention either, they have been around for more than 10,000 years. What is new is putting electric motors on them. Back in the time of the pyramids they would have been manually powered. 

Building the pyramids does not require ramps or roller logs. They can simply bury what has been built so far in sand, raise the block to be moved putting sand below it, and creating a sand pathway to the buried partial pyramid.

A number of the pyramids were built on ridge lines or raised areas so 'burying them' would have required a vast amount of work to do so not to mention retaining walls etc. They had mud bricks.

[Abramelin]

23 hours ago, Windowpane said:

Er ... not this one ??

Ok, sorry for going off topic, but I became curious after I read your link.

Well, her she is. And her voice is close to being scary:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ry7WgPZ_wok

 

[Abramelin]

On 9/6/2021 at 7:44 PM, Abramelin said:

No, he reported about a plant that could soften stone.

Hiram Bingham, the one who discovered Macchu Pichu, also reported about that plant.

And one of them reported about a bird using that plant to create a hole in rock to create its nest.

Here's part of the story:

https://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread692500/pg1

 

[WVK]

This fellow claims that chemicals were used to produce core #7

https://vixra.org/pdf/1503.0182v1.pdf

[Hanslune]

3 hours ago, WVK said:

This fellow claims that chemicals were used to produce core #7

https://vixra.org/pdf/1503.0182v1.pdf

....had how would the AE have made sodium hydroxide? Hmmm

[Swede]

4 hours ago, WVK said:

This fellow claims that chemicals were used to produce core #7

https://vixra.org/pdf/1503.0182v1.pdf

Non-starter. As already noted by Hans, consider the various technical complexities involved. These factors are not evidenced in the record. This little tid-bit is hardly worth extensive dissection.

..

[WVK]

45 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

....had how would the AE have made sodium hydroxide? Hmmm

Ancient Egyptians and Babylonians used a form of lye (using ash) around 4,800 years agoand recorded it's use on a clay tablet.

https://www.bulkapothecary.com/raw-ingredients/other-ingredients-and-chemicals/sodium-hydroxide-lye/

Lye is sodium hydroxide. It comes in liquid form, flakes, or crystals.  Sodium hydroxide comes into being when soda (sodium carbonate) and lime (calcium hydroxide) come together and cause a chemical reaction.

https://nella-naturals.com/blogs/blog/what-is-lye

 

 

[Harte]

They made lye on the American frontier by saving ashes and pouring water through them. Boil the result for the desired strength.

Like the Babylonians and Egyptians, they used it primarily for making soap.

Not for shaping stone. That wouldn't work.

Harte

[WVK]

1 hour ago, Harte said:

They made lye on the American frontier by saving ashes and pouring water through them. Boil the result for the desired strength.

Like the Babylonians and Egyptians, they used it primarily for making soap.

Not for shaping stone. That wouldn't work.

Harte

My grandmother, who was born in the late 1800s, made lye soap. Couldn’t see spending money on the store bought stuff.

[Hanslune]

5 minutes ago, WVK said:

My grandmother, who was born in the late 1800s, made lye soap. Couldn’t see spending money on the store bought stuff.

So how effective is lye soap in dissolving various types of rocks? I ask because I have no idea however, I'm not aware of the Greeks or Romans using it, nor anyone else for that purpose. So, who used it for that purpose?

I have used lye to remove clay from fossils & sherds but not dissolve rocks.

Egyptians used a scented paste consisting of ash and clay for soap, and the Ebers Papyrus, a source for medical knowledge, instructed people to mix animal and vegetable oils with alkaline salts for washing and treating skin diseases.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebers_Papyrus

[Jon the frog]

They had tools to cut stone quite well and clean... some example of tools on that website:

http://www.hallofmaat.com/unforbiddengeology/ancient-egyptian-copper-slabbing-saws/

[WVK]

43 minutes ago, Hanslune said:

So how effective is lye soap in dissolving various types of rocks? I ask because I have no idea however, I'm not aware of the Greeks or Romans using it, nor anyone else for that purpose. So, who used it for that purpose?

 

I have used lye to remove clay from fossils & sherds but not dissolve rocks.

 

Egyptians used a scented paste consisting of ash and clay for soap, and the Ebers Papyrus, a source for medical knowledge, instructed people to mix animal and vegetable oils with alkaline salts for washing and treating skin diseases.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebers_Papyrus

 

 

Lye and lye soap are two different things:

GRANDMA'S Lye Soap is NOT harmful to skin. Soap making involves a chemical process where lye and oils are combined in exact amounts to form soap. ... Once curing is complete, the soap will have no traces of lye.

I have no idea if lye could work as the article suggests

[Thanos5150]

4 hours ago, Jon the frog said:

They had tools to cut stone quite well and clean... some example of tools on that website:

http://www.hallofmaat.com/unforbiddengeology/ancient-egyptian-copper-slabbing-saws/

I never understood why Archae, or whoever, did this, but the saw pictured at the top is a 17th century BC Cycladic bronze woodworking saw discovered on Thera. Seems a little dishonest to put this at the top of an article titled "Ancient Egyptian Copper Slabbing Saws". At any rate, all of the actual Egyptian depictions in the article are of hand saws cutting wood which caches of such wood working saws were found as far back as the 1st Dynasty. The DE obviously had saws, but these not the ones used to cut the stones. Far from it. According to John Romer, as evidenced by the saw marks themselves, some of the saws would have needed to be truss saws with blades at least 13ft long weighing upwards of 800lbs. This article, uncritically repeated, is highly misleading for those who don't actually read it. 

Edited September 9, 2021 by Thanos5150