A 25 Year Journey Into Mind, Seeing, And Light

[SteveKlinko]

A)   Science Has No explanation

It all started one day when I thought it might be fun to figure out how we See.

I read what the Scientists and the Philosophers had to say.

I studied Eye Physiology and Brain Physiology.

I learned exactly how the Eye, Optic Nerve, and Visual Cortex work.

But I was disappointed, because all this understanding did not explain how we See.

After 25 years of study, I had to face the fact that Science had no Explanation for how we See.

 

   Think In New Ways

I discovered that the only thing Science knew for sure was that if certain Neurons fire we can have an Experience of Seeing.

It was reasonable to speculate that there must be something about the Neurons that produced this Experience of Seeing.

And for the last hundred years, Science has Probed, Measured, Scanned, and Mapped the Brain in every conceivable way.

And this has resulted in HUGE progress with understanding the Neural Activity that happens while Seeing.

But after all this time, Science has made exactly ZERO progress with understanding the Conscious Experience of Seeing.

Ironically, the Seeing part of how we See was still a total mystery.

It became clear to me that it was time to start thinking in New Ways.

But it is difficult to teach people to think in New Ways.

And I found that I can only Nudge people in the right direction, with the hope that they will eventually understand the New Ways.

 

C)   Insight From Floating Lights

So here is a Nudge toward New Ways of thinking, in the form of a little story about Floating Lights.

A lot of times I fall asleep on the couch in my Stereo room at night.

I have multiple Preamps, Power Amps, Processors, and Converters with different Colored LED panel Lights.

It relaxes me to think about these Lights when I’m going to sleep.

The LEDs seem to float “Out There” in space as Colored points of Light punching through the darkness.

It’s just Me … the LEDs … and the Darkness.

At first, because I knew the LEDs were across the room, my Experience was that they really were across the room.

Eventually, I realized that I could Experience the Lights as being close to me.

I could even make them seem like they were located directly in front of my face.

I assumed this was just my Imagination.

 

D)   Conscious Space

But after a while, I realized that this might not be my Imagination.

It was in fact the first evidence that I might not be Seeing the Physical LEDs, but rather I was Seeing some kind of Conscious Experience in my Mind.

The Illusion has always been that the Lights were “Out There”.

But the reality is that the Lights were never “Out There” in the first place.

I was Seeing what I call Conscious Lights.

These Conscious Lights were created by my Mind and projected in front of my face.

It seemed Logical to speculate that the Conscious Lights existed in some new conceptual place, which I call Conscious Space.

Next, it became Logical to speculate that each individual Conscious Mind might consist of a little chunk of this Conscious Space.

So we each have our own chunk of Conscious Space, and this is where our separate Conscious Experiences happen.

 

E)   Conscious Experience

Let’s think about Seeing Color and especially let’s think about Seeing Red.

Instead of Seeing Red I like to say we Experience Redness.

This helps point attention to the Redness Experience in the Mind, and not to the Red Electromagnetic Wave phenomenon.

The Redness Experience is in Conscious Space and the Red Electromagnetic Wave is in Physical Space.

The argument is similar for any other Color or combination of Colors, including shades of gray from Black to White.

The Visually impaired can consider the Conscious Experience of other things, like the Sound of the Standard A Tone, the Taste of Salt, the Smell of Bleach, or the Touch of a Rough Surface.

 

F)   The Inter Mind

Science has mapped the various Sensory inputs from the Eyes, Ears, Tongue, Nose, and Skin to specific areas of the Cortex.

So, for example we can say:

1 Neural Activity for Red happens in the Cortex.

2 A Redness Experience happens in the Conscious Mind.

But we have a dilemma because this question screams out at us:

How does the Neural Activity produce the Redness Experience?

From a Systems Engineering point of view there is a missing processing stage between the Neural Activity and the Conscious Experience.

I call the missing processing stage, the Inter Mind, because it is an Interconnecting stage between the Physical Mind, and the Conscious Mind, where Physical Mind means the Brain.

We can now imagine a three stage diagram of Mind that shows the Physical Mind connected to the Inter Mind and the Inter Mind connected to the Conscious Mind.

I call this diagram the Inter Mind Model of Consciousness.

The Inter Mind does the Processing to Translate Neural Activity in the Physical Mind into the Conscious Experience in the Conscious Mind.

The Inter Mind functionality might exist partly in the Physical Mind and partly in the Conscious Mind.

But it might exist only in the Physical Mind or only in the Conscious Mind.

Physicalists will insist it is completely in the Physical Mind.

One thing for sure is that the functionality of an Inter Mind must exist somewhere.

 

G)  Physiology of Seeing

Let’s talk about the Physiology of Seeing.

Physical Light from the External Scene enters the Eye and is focused onto the Retina.

The Energy from the Physical Light activates millions of Light Receptors that send signals to the Visual Cortex.

The Visual Cortex performs processing using a cascading, feedback, network of millions of Activated Neurons.

Since all this Neural Activity is Correlated with the Physical Light, I like to call it, the Neural Light.

But we don’t See this Neural Light.

We See a Conscious Light Scene in the Mind that is Correlated with the Neural Light.

The Conscious Light Scene cannot be found in the Physical Mind.

I like to speculate that the whole Conscious Light Scene is in Conscious Space.

 

H)   Reconstruction and Overlay Processing

But let’s talk about what the Physical Mind is actually doing.

The Physical Mind seems to deconstruct the Scene we are looking at with the goal of detecting features of the Scene like lines, edges, motion, and color.

The highest stages seem to be for image recognition.

The lower stages seem to be for control of eye focus, convergence, and target tracking.

There are some edge enhancement and shading effects that are generated in the lower stages that can be Experienced in the Conscious Light Scene.

If there is a damaged area in the lower stages, then an equivalent blacked out area will appear in the Conscious Light Scene.

If there is damage to the Color areas, then the Color Experience will be impaired.

It seems that the Conscious Light Scene that we See, must consist of an Overlay of all the Visual Cortex processing stages.

The deconstructed Cortex information must be Reconstructed into a Coherent Conscious Light Scene.

Unfortunately, there is no known mechanism in the Physical Mind that does this Overlay and Reconstruction Processing.

This missing Processing is sometimes called the Binding Problem.

Since the purpose of the Inter Mind is to Translate the Neural Activity into the Conscious Light Scene, it is Logical to propose that the Inter Mind must perform the Overlay and Reconstruction processing.

 

I)     Three Types of Light

Let’s think about the three types of Light.

First, there are the Electromagnetic Waves, in Physical Space, which I call Physical Light.

Second, there is the Neural Activity, also in Physical Space, which I call Neural Light.

Third, there is the Conscious Experience, in Conscious Space, which I call Conscious Light.

These different Types of Light exist at different stages in the Seeing process.

We have never Seen the Physical Light or the Neural Light.

We have always only Seen the Conscious Light that is in our Conscious Minds.

 

J)    An Important Realization

Since the Conscious Light is in our Conscious Minds we can say the Light is our own internal personal Light.

Even if you are a Physicalist and believe the Conscious Light is in the Neurons, it is still your own internal personal Light.

Since the Conscious Light is internal to us, we can say the Conscious Light is partly what we are.

We can say: We are that Light.

For me, this was the most important Realization I have ever had about my own Mind and Being.

 

[lightly]

What happened to (B  ?

[SteveKlinko]

14 hours ago, lightly said:

What happened to (B  ?

It got turned into that icon. I thought it was funny so I just left it. 

[lightly]

5 minutes ago, SteveKlinko said:

It got turned into that icon. I thought it was funny so I just left it. 

Good idea. .  I don't really understand...but I like your idea "Realization" of    Conscious Light.. and that, "We are that Light" .

[SHaYap]

It's all waves to me... 

Quote

~

 

[SteveKlinko]

To lightly and third_eye. Maybe this will help. 

Levels of Understanding for the Human Visual Experience:

1) Naive Realism Level: When we were young and Naive we looked out at the World and assumed that the Visual Experience that we were Seeing was what the External World actually looked like. We did not think Deeper about what this Visual Experience actually could be. It was so simple then, we just looked out into the World and thought we Saw the World as it was. As we examined our Visual Experiences we could See that the different Objects out there had different Colors. We thought that the Colors were a direct Property of the things that we were Looking at. At this Level we thought our Visual Experience was painted with all the different Colors of all the Objects that are out there.

2) Physical Light Level: Most technical minded people were eventually driven to ask a question: "How does this Visual Experience actually happen"? It all seemed so simple when we were at the Naive Realist Level, but we have Learned, Matured, and began Questioning things. We took some Science courses and found out that we do not directly See Objects in the World but rather we See the reflected Light from these Objects. This was a fantastic new Realization. Now when we observed our Visual Experience we could understand that we were merely Seeing reflected Light from Objects in the External World. We realized that our Visual Experience was now painted with all the possible Physical Light (Electromagnetic) Wavelengths that our Eye could Detect. From this Perspective we thought we were Seeing the actual Physical Light that was hitting the Retina. We thought that the Colors were a direct Property of the Electromagnetic Physical Light that we were Looking at. We were closer to Reality because at least we now understood that we were not Seeing the actual Objects anymore.

3) Neural Light Level: Even though we knew it was the Physical Light, most technical minded people were eventually driven to ask a question: "How does this Visual Physical Light Experience actually happen"? It all seemed so simple when we were at the Physical Light Level, but we continued to Learn more. We took some courses in Eye Physiology and Brain Physiology which made us realize that we don't directly See the Physical Light that seemed to make up our Visual Experience. We found out that the Visual Experience that we See requires Neural Activity. This was again a fantastic new Realization. From this Perspective we thought we were Seeing the effect of our own internal Neurons Firing. We were closer to Reality because at least we now understood that we were not Seeing the actual Physical Light anymore. Our Visual Experience was still painted with all the Colors that we have always Seen but we now knew that these Colors were generated Internally by our Brains and we understood that all these Colors were never something that was External. The Colors became Properties of Neural Activity. The Light was now understood to be something Inside of us.

4) Conscious Light Level: When we were at the Naive Realist Level it made sense that our Visual Experience was actually showing us what the External World looked like. When we were at the Physical Light Level it made sense that our Visual Experience was actually showing us what the Physical Light looked like. But when we attained the Neural Light Level there was not that same feeling of it making Sense. In fact, it made no Sense that the Neural Activity produced the beautiful panoramic Color Visual Experience that we all have. Where, after all, were all those Colors coming from inside the Neurons? How could Neurons Firing have a Property of Color? There was a problem here because we could not find any courses to take that would answer this latest question. Science had effectively hit a Brick Wall on this question. There was an Explanatory Gap at the Neural Light Level. It was clear that our Visual Experience was still that panoramic, Color filled, Experience that we always had. The Light was still there, being generated by the Brain in some way. But there was no Chain of Logic that could take us from Neurons Firing to the Visual Light Experience. It became an item of Faith that Science would figure out what the required Chain of Logic would be. Humanity has tried for a hundred years to figure this out. But there is nothing to show for the effort. All we know is that Neural Activity happens and then a Visual Light Experience happens. It all seemed so simple when we were at the Neural Light Level, but we have Learned more, Matured more, and began Thinking Deeper about the Visual Experience. Even though we thought it was the Neurons, most technical minded people were eventually driven to ask the question: "How does this Visual Light Experience actually happen from the Neural Activity"? It became clear that new ways of Thinking about the problem needed to be developed. This is what Science is supposed to do. This is how Science progresses. But instead, a lot of Scientists are still trying to push the Visual Light Experience back into the Neurons, but the Visual Light Experience refuses to be pushed into the Neurons. The Visual Light Experience seems to be something separate from the Neurons, even though we know it is probably connected to the Neural Activity in some way. The Visual Light Experience simply hovers and is embedded in the front of our faces, as will be explained and demonstrated later. We sense that it must be some kind of Conscious Experience concept that happens in some kind of Conscious Mind concept. But we cannot know that for sure. It just seems to be our best Speculation for progressing forward. What we are Seeing is our own Internal Conscious Light. For now it can be said that we have never Seen an actual Object out in the World, nor do we See the actual reflected Light from an Object, nor do we See actual Neural Activity. Instead, we have always only Seen our own Internal Conscious Light. It is this Conscious Light (not Physical Electromagnetic Light) that is generated by our Internal Brain/Mind mechanism.

[Kenemet]

Mmmkay... so you don't understand neurology or how the brain works.  That's fair.  But the "science" explanation explains mirages and optical illusions and many other things that your own concepts would make impossible to observe.

Like this one (Ponzo illusion)  https://www.illusionsindex.org/i/ponzo-illusion

[SHaYap]

That's some twisted photons bouncing around in the head that is... 

~

[Mr Walker]

13 hours ago, Kenemet said:

Mmmkay... so you don't understand neurology or how the brain works.  That's fair.  But the "science" explanation explains mirages and optical illusions and many other things that your own concepts would make impossible to observe.

Like this one (Ponzo illusion)  https://www.illusionsindex.org/i/ponzo-illusion

I am  sorry, but I don't get this 

Both lines are identical, and appear identical to me

Are they supposed to appear different?

[SHaYap]

5 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

I am  sorry, but I don't get this 

Both lines are identical, and appear identical to me

Are they supposed to appear different?

Honestly, after all the years you claim to have spent getting educated in all those institutions of higher and greater disciplines of learning, who are you trying to fool here? 

~

[SteveKlinko]

16 hours ago, Kenemet said:

Mmmkay... so you don't understand neurology or how the brain works.  That's fair.  But the "science" explanation explains mirages and optical illusions and many other things that your own concepts would make impossible to observe.

Like this one (Ponzo illusion)  https://www.illusionsindex.org/i/ponzo-illusion

Illusions are interesting. I like the ones that give you the impression of rotation where there is no rotation. But I don't understand how my concepts would not let me observe illusions.

[psyche101]

WTF are you taking about? 

Photons bounce of an object, enter the eye, where the brain deciphers that information into a understandable description. The action is similar to a camera.whsts this great mystery you are alluding to? Of course there is neural activity, that's what brain function is. 

[SteveKlinko]

9 hours ago, psyche101 said:

WTF are you taking about? 

Photons bounce of an object, enter the eye, where the brain deciphers that information into a understandable description. The action is similar to a camera.whsts this great mystery you are alluding to? Of course there is neural activity, that's what brain function is. 

If you are talking about the OP and not the Illusion above then all I can say is I tried. You might be one of those that actually do not have Conscious Experiences like other people do. You might exist more at the Neural Level. You probably don't understand  the Conscious Experience of Redness, or the Salty Taste, or the Smell of Bleach, or the Touch of a Rough Surface. 

[XenoFish]

So this is just a repeat of your other thread. 

[SteveKlinko]

12 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

So this is just a repeat of your other thread. 

The only way you could make a comment like that is if you really didn't read the two threads.

[XenoFish]

6 minutes ago, SteveKlinko said:

The only way you could make a comment like that is if you really didn't read the two threads.

You're basically arguing the same thing as the last thread minus the esp part.

[quiXilver]

On 9/9/2021 at 1:29 AM, third_eye said:

Honestly, after all the years you claim to have spent getting educated in all those institutions of higher and greater disciplines of learning, who are you trying to fool here? 

~

Anyone who'll listen, it seems.

[Kenemet]

On 9/9/2021 at 6:21 AM, SteveKlinko said:

Illusions are interesting. I like the ones that give you the impression of rotation where there is no rotation. But I don't understand how my concepts would not let me observe illusions.

Because self is pure and not fooled by illusion.  If self is fooled by illusion then your idea cannot be true because you can't trust that your interpretation is not based on illusion.

[SteveKlinko]

14 hours ago, Kenemet said:

Because self is pure and not fooled by illusion.  If self is fooled by illusion then your idea cannot be true because you can't trust that your interpretation is not based on illusion.

Self can only Detect the External world. Self cannot directly know the External world. The Self needs the mechanism of the Brain to Detect the External world. The Brain generates the best Guess as to what is going on in the External world, and the Self (Conscious Mind) has to accept that the best Guess might not always be perfect. But it is at least a very very good Guess most of the time. The Self must always be skeptical of what it Experiences or it will be fooled occasionally.

[jmccr8]

8 hours ago, SteveKlinko said:

Self can only Detect the External world. Self cannot directly know the External world.

Hi Steve

Self is formed by having a body to experience the world we exist in so I do not exclude my body as the means by which I experience the external world it is a part of who I am

[XenoFish]

Sensory information is a whole package deal. Not just single aspects of the whole. Most of this information is processed on unconscious levels. 

[Rlyeh]

25 years and all you've got is an argument from incredulity.

 

[SteveKlinko]

12 minutes ago, Rlyeh said:

25 years and all you've got is an argument from incredulity.

 

This is is because Science has made Zero, I repeat Zero, progress with understanding Conscious Experience.

[SHaYap]

8 minutes ago, SteveKlinko said:

This is is because Science has made Zero, I repeat Zero, progress with understanding Conscious Experience.

So you take that to mean it gives you validation or verification of your mental overtures into the realm of possibilities?

Have you been visited by conscious melding psychic astral plane extra terrestrials by any chance? 

~

[Rlyeh]

19 minutes ago, SteveKlinko said:

This is is because Science has made Zero, I repeat Zero, progress with understanding Conscious Experience.

You don't like the idea that your beautiful "high definition display" is created by neurons.