A 25 Year Journey Into Mind, Seeing, And Light

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, SteveKlinko said:

There is no wrong or right. Over the years I have encountered many people that just seem not to get the concept of the Qualia. I used to think that they were just dishonest Physicalists defending their materialist Beliefs. But I came to realize that there was a possibility that some people, maybe a lot of people, don't have the Color Qualia. They detect Color so they are not Color Blind. They just don't Experience the Redness, Blueness or Greeness  Qualia.

I think that you're seriously over thinking your human experience. You're a lot like a Christian that want proof of Jesus. You're doubt your own experiences. So you look for anything, something that'll prove you are not a zombie. Which has lead you to project your doubt onto others. 

[SteveKlinko]

5 minutes ago, third_eye said:

No, it's your soft problem of your mental capacity burdened by hard consciousness.

You just admitted you have no idea what "light" is. 

~

You are a very Incoherent. Just because nobody knows what it is doesn't mean we don't recognize it's Existence in the Manifest Universe.

[SHaYap]

1 minute ago, SteveKlinko said:

You are a very Incoherent.

You don't even care what "coherence" means

~

1 minute ago, SteveKlinko said:

Just because nobody knows what it is doesn't mean we don't recognize it's Existence in the Manifest Universe.

Who is this "nobody" you're referring to? 

~

[SteveKlinko]

2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

I think that you're seriously over thinking your human experience. You're a lot like a Christian that want proof of Jesus. You're doubt your own experiences. So you look for anything, something that'll prove you are not a zombie. Which has lead you to project your doubt onto others. 

On the contrary, everything I have ever said proclaims my intense understanding of the existence of Conscious Experiences. They exist, and are not Explained by Science. It is a failing of Science, that it has not come any closer to understanding Conscious Experience in the hundred years we have had modern Science working on the problem.

[XenoFish]

4 minutes ago, SteveKlinko said:

You are a very Incoherent. Just because nobody knows what it is doesn't mean we don't recognize it's Existence in the Manifest Universe.

Really? He makes sense to me. Perhaps you're not have a conscious enough experience to understand?

[SteveKlinko]

2 minutes ago, third_eye said:

You don't even care what "coherence" means

~

Who is this "nobody" you're referring to? 

~

You have now given up on the argument, by resorting to Semantics. You are merely Diverting and Obfuscating with posts like this.

[XenoFish]

1 minute ago, SteveKlinko said:

On the contrary, everything I have ever said proclaims my intense understanding of the existence of Conscious Experiences. They exist, and are not Explained by Science. It is a failing of Science, that it has not come any closer to understanding Conscious Experience in the hundred years we have had modern Science working on the problem.

Perhaps not, might be how science is looking at the problem. Could be that we already know the answer. I still don't see it as a real problems. I see consciousness as a result of the whole body. A sensory experience, consciousness simply being the self aware aspect of this organic unit. 

Of course such a simple answer just won't do.

[SHaYap]

Just now, XenoFish said:

Really? He makes sense to me. Perhaps you're not have a conscious enough experience to understand?

Oh he understands, from the weasel skirting words and swerve logic definition he's using, he knows very well what and where things stand. 

He's a modern shaman trying at practicing ancient sleight of mind. 

~

1 minute ago, SteveKlinko said:

You have now given up on the argument, by resorting to Semantics. You are merely Diverting and Obfuscating with posts like this.

See? 

~

[SteveKlinko]

2 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Really? He makes sense to me. Perhaps you're not have a conscious enough experience to understand?

Perhaps ... but you guys seem more and more likely not to have actual Conscious Experiences of Qualia. Nothing wrong with that. You just lack the last stage in the Visual Experience in your Mind. Maybe you do have the Visual Qualia and are just denying it to keep the discussion going. Maybe you will recognize the Redness Experience as a thing to be Explained some day in the future. 

[XenoFish]

Just now, SteveKlinko said:

Perhaps ... but you guys seem more and more likely not to have actual Conscious Experiences of Qualia. Nothing wrong with that. You just lack the last stage in the Visual Experience in your Mind. Maybe you do have the Visual Qualia and are just denying it to keep the discussion going. Maybe you will recognize the Redness Experience as a thing to be Explained some day in the future. 

I think third eye and myself are the conscious ones in this conversation. 

[SteveKlinko]

4 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Perhaps not, might be how science is looking at the problem. Could be that we already know the answer. I still don't see it as a real problems. I see consciousness as a result of the whole body. A sensory experience, consciousness simply being the self aware aspect of this organic unit. 

Of course such a simple answer just won't do.

The incredible thing is that you really don't see the non Explanation of your Explanation.

[SteveKlinko]

Just now, XenoFish said:

I think third eye and myself are the conscious ones in this conversation. 

And so you might be. Good luck defending that and at the same time denying Qualia.

[XenoFish]

Just now, SteveKlinko said:

The incredible thing is that you really don't see the non Explanation of your Explanation.

Because I don't need an explanation. I just enjoy the experience of it all. Be it good or ill.

6 minutes ago, third_eye said:

Oh he understands, from the weasel skirting words and swerve logic definition he's using, he knows very well what and where things stand. 

He's a modern shaman trying at practicing ancient sleight of mind. 

~

See? 

~

Metaphysical avoids or goal post moving.

[XenoFish]

Just now, SteveKlinko said:

And so you might be. Good luck defending that and at the same time denying Qualia.

Truth is I'm not required to do anything. 

[SHaYap]

1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

Truth is I'm not required to do anything. 

Careful, he's gonna start chanting and conjure up living lights that dances like some physical therapist... 

~

[SteveKlinko]

7 minutes ago, third_eye said:

Oh he understands, from the weasel skirting words and swerve logic definition he's using, he knows very well what and where things stand. 

He's a modern shaman trying at practicing ancient sleight of mind. 

~

See? 

~

The only thing you can do is Divert and Obfuscate the discussion away from Conscious Experience itself. You need to think about something like the Experience of Redness more Deeply (I mean really, and not some meditation thing). Just think!

[SteveKlinko]

3 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Truth is I'm not required to do anything. 

Right. But why be Lazy when you can put some more work into this and understand?

[SteveKlinko]

2 minutes ago, third_eye said:

Careful, he's gonna start chanting and conjure up living lights that dances like some physical therapist... 

~

Only you can conjure up your own internal Lights. You do this especially while Dreaming at night.

[SHaYap]

1 minute ago, SteveKlinko said:

The only thing you can do is Divert and Obfuscate the discussion away from Conscious Experience itself. You need to think about something like the Experience of Redness more Deeply (I mean really, and not some meditation thing).

Your eyes are red from all that rubbing, works for other parts of your anatomy too, try it, might be fun for you too 

~

1 minute ago, SteveKlinko said:

Just think!

Where have you been? I was waiting for you to start... 

~

[SHaYap]

Just now, SteveKlinko said:

Only you can conjure up your own internal Lights.

Sorry, I only have internal luminescence... 

~

Just now, SteveKlinko said:

You do this especially while Dreaming at night.

Only you do, I dream only when I dream...

~

[XenoFish]

30 minutes ago, SteveKlinko said:

Right. But why be Lazy when you can put some more work into this and understand?

Maybe I already understand. Can you quantify your experience of redness for all of us? Are you able to provide facts and figures, formulas and indepth explanations for your personal experience of redness? Can you?

[XenoFish]

30 minutes ago, SteveKlinko said:

Only you can conjure up your own internal Lights. You do this especially while Dreaming at night.

You mean the imagination/visualization.

[SteveKlinko]

1 hour ago, third_eye said:

Your eyes are red from all that rubbing, works for other parts of your anatomy too, try it, might be fun for you too 

~

Where have you been? I was waiting for you to start... 

~

When people resort to childish analogies it is clear that they have nothing more to say. I have to assume you really don't get the eye rub thing. So you must also be one of those that don't Experience the Qualia. Since you are Qualia Blind there is no basis for discussion with you. 

[SteveKlinko]

52 minutes ago, XenoFish said:

Maybe I already understand. Can you quantify your experience of redness for all of us? Are you able to provide facts and figures, formulas and indepth explanations for your personal experience of redness? Can you?

Redness is a Conscious Experience in the Mind. The Redness Experience can only be Experienced right now. But someday I am hoping for an Explanation from Science. You seem not to have this Experience. Or do you?

[XenoFish]

3 minutes ago, SteveKlinko said:

Redness is a Conscious Experience in the Mind. The Redness Experience can only be Experienced right now. But someday I am hoping for an Explanation from Science. You seem not to have this Experience. Or do you?

You didn't answer my questions.