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FOIA documents prove Fauci lied under oath about U.S. funding of "gain of function"

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OverSword

No.  Really?  I'm shocked. :rolleyes: 

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OverSword
42 minutes ago, and then said:

My interest isn't in seeing this person suffer for what he did.

Why not?  The USA had banned Gain of Function research so common sense would indicate he should have known better than to use American money to fund it anywhere else.  Fauci should be charged with a  crime and tried by a jury.  It's very likely that he was at least partially though indirectly responsible for the pandemic IMO.

Edited by OverSword
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spartan max2

But I was told that Facui is the face and spokesperson for all of science and that to question him to sacrilegious. 

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OverSword
7 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

But I was told that Facui is the face and spokesperson for all of science and that to question him to sacrilegious. 

The biggest shame of this entire pandemic is the political lines drawn about it.  My rabid democrat family will still shout down any word spoken about a lab leak.  They're as bad as "you know who" won't type his name but I'm sure he'll be chiming in

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South Alabam

That's despite the fact that it isn't just a federal crime to lie to Congress while under oath — considered the “general perjury" statute — it’s also illegal to make false statements to Congress even if you're not under oath.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/5-people-who-lied-congress-what-happened-them-n941936

 

He should be held accountable. Yes, the political climate of today is highly partisan, so we see abundant hypocrisy and people walking free who shouldn't be.

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godnodog

What is "gain of function"?

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spartan max2
15 minutes ago, godnodog said:

What is "gain of function"?

Gain of function research is where you mutate a virus or bacteria to a more contagious or deadly state so that you can study how to deal with it.

That type of research is banned in the US, but he seems we are fine with outsourcing that research with funding to other nations.

Its not banned in China, and the Wuhan lab did gain of function research. Which is were some of the claims about a lab leak stem from. The idea that Covid was mutated in a lab to study for the event a pandemic happened, but then it leaked out of the lab and a pandemic did happen.

 

Edited by spartan max2
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OverSword
2 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

Gain of function research is where you mutate a virus or bacteria to a more contagious or deadly state so that you can study how to deal with it.

That type of research is banned in the US, but he seems we are fine with outsourcing that research with funding to other nations.

Its not banned in China, and the Wuhan lab did gain of function research. Which is were some of the claims about a lab leak stem from. The idea that Covid was mutated in a lab to study for the event a pandemic happened, but then it leaked out of the lab and a pandemic did happen.

 

What could possibly go wrong?  Right? :whistle:

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Liquid Gardens
3 hours ago, and then said:

I'm just wondering if we are so far gone that half or more of us are willing to ignore his role in causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans and millions of others around the world. 

Where does your article mention Fauci?  He's not mentioned in either of the grant proposals linked in the article.  What exactly is Fauci's role in supposedly causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people? 

Even if these were to match the definition of 'gain-of-function' grants according to how scientists define it, are you sure Fauci was even aware of these?  Remember it's not a lie unless you know it's false, otherwise a good chunk of the stuff you post uncritically from whatever right-wing media you are currently digesting would also be 'lies'.

Edited by Liquid Gardens
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Michelle
2 hours ago, OverSword said:

The biggest shame of this entire pandemic is the political lines drawn about it.  My rabid democrat family will still shout down any word spoken about a lab leak.  They're as bad as "you know who" won't type his name but I'm sure he'll be chiming in

Do they work for Facebook or Twitter? Sounds like easy money.

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godnodog

 

2 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

Gain of function research is where you mutate a virus or bacteria to a more contagious or deadly state so that you can study how to deal with it.

That type of research is banned in the US, but he seems we are fine with outsourcing that research with funding to other nations.

Its not banned in China, and the Wuhan lab did gain of function research. Which is were some of the claims about a lab leak stem from. The idea that Covid was mutated in a lab to study for the event a pandemic happened, but then it leaked out of the lab and a pandemic did happen.

 

Thank you for answering my question.

Indeed it's pretty serious and it urgently needs to be looked at by the Congress(?)/senate(?).

Edited by godnodog
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Eldorado
40 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Where does your article mention Fauci? 

He gets a mention elsewhere.....

Dr. Anthony Fauci has been accused by critics of lying after newly released documents appear to contradict his claims that the National Institute of Health did not fund gain-of-function research at China’s Wuhan lab.

Senator Rand Paul led the criticism against Fauci on Tuesday after the documents, obtained by The Intercept, detailed grants given to EcoHealth Alliance — the nonprofit that funneled federal funds to the Wuhan Institute of Virology for bat coronavirus research.

Included in the trove of documents is a previously unpublished grant proposal that EcoHealth Alliance, which is run by Peter Daszak, filed with Fauci’s National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Disease.

https://nypost.com/2021/09/07/wuhan-lab-documents-show-fauci-untruthful-about-research-critics/

https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/dr-anthony-fauci-accused-of-lying-about-gainoffunction-wuhan-research/news-story/9e73396f5dd25ed50a29b5c561f1437c

https://news.yahoo.com/internal-documents-further-contradict-fauci-142902303.html?

https://www.wibc.com/blogs/mock-n-rob/nih-documents-show-fauci-was-untruthful-about-gain-of-function-research-in-wuhan/

 

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Tatetopa
4 hours ago, and then said:

https://theintercept.com/2021/09/06/new-details-emerge-about-coronavirus-research-at-chinese-lab/

I hadn't noticed anyone else bothering to bring this little embarrassment up for discussion.  My interest isn't in seeing this person suffer for what he did.  I'm just wondering if we are so far gone that half or more of us are willing to ignore his role in causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Americans and millions of others around the world.  The man lied.  He didn't make a mistake or misspeak.  He LIED to Congress about his role in what we are endlessly told is the premier threat to our nation today.  Those who don't care or have no interest in holding him accountable really need to explain WHY?  

FTR, the reason I think he needs to answer some questions and he needs to tell the truth is that the current political tribalism is destroying this nation.  Those who think they are succeeding and the end justifies the means, will someday realize that no one can do such damage to institutions that depend on trust, and still expect them to be there when their needed in life or death situations in the future.  And it isn't JUST about future trustworthiness.  Those who are angry or mystified by the choices of millions of their neighbors who still refuse to get onboard with vaccinations, need look no further than his example, to understand why there is no trust.  

From the article. Were they trying to understand the risk or promote it?  Choose your reality.

One of the grants, titled “Understanding the Risk of Bat Coronavirus Emergence,” outlines an ambitious effort led by EcoHealth Alliance President Peter Daszak to screen thousands of bat samples for novel coronaviruses. The research also involved screening people who work with live animals. 

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OverSword
43 minutes ago, Michelle said:

Do they work for Facebook or Twitter? Sounds like easy money.

One works for FaceBook, yes. :lol:

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diddyman68

Never trusted that beady eyed little man from day 1 ,still don't.

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Liquid Gardens
57 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

From the article. Were they trying to understand the risk or promote it?  Choose your reality.

One of the grants, titled “Understanding the Risk of Bat Coronavirus Emergence,” outlines an ambitious effort led by EcoHealth Alliance President Peter Daszak to screen thousands of bat samples for novel coronaviruses. The research also involved screening people who work with live animals. 

Yea, I'm trying to find the actual evidence here to check this.  I think the claim is that Fauci lied when he said they have not funded gain-of-function research at Wuhan.  The actual grant documents are linked in the OP article.  Looking through the one you mention above that was for screening, there is a section indicating that the Wuhan lab was funded as part of that grant.  But in that first grant, I'm not sure where the 'gain of function' part is.

The second grant document, which has the gain-of-function-sounding line, "Prior to further altering the mutant viruses you must provide NIAID with a detailed description of the proposed alterations and supporting evidence for the anticipated phenotypic characteristics of each virus." doesn't mention any Wuhan funding in the document.  So in the second case, assuming this counts as gain of function, did Wuhan receive money to do this?  Did they receive this money just from EcoHealth, or as instructed from the US govt as in the first case?  

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OverSword
13 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Yea, I'm trying to find the actual evidence here to check this.  I think the claim is that Fauci lied when he said they have not funded gain-of-function research at Wuhan.  The actual grant documents are linked in the OP article.  Looking through the one you mention above that was for screening, there is a section indicating that the Wuhan lab was funded as part of that grant.  But in that first grant, I'm not sure where the 'gain of function' part is.

The second grant document, which has the gain-of-function-sounding line, "Prior to further altering the mutant viruses you must provide NIAID with a detailed description of the proposed alterations and supporting evidence for the anticipated phenotypic characteristics of each virus." doesn't mention any Wuhan funding in the document.  So in the second case, assuming this counts as gain of function, did Wuhan receive money to do this?  Did they receive this money just from EcoHealth, or as instructed from the US govt as in the first case?  

If Wuhan received it third party, eco health, and eco health received it through grants that's like money laundering to bypass the intent of our governments will not to fund GoF research.  Basically what Rand Paul accused Fauci of if I'm not mistaken?  

Edited by OverSword
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and then
1 hour ago, Tatetopa said:

Choose your reality.

My reality is that this man lied before Congress about one of the most important issues facing the nation today.  Gain of function was considered to be too dangerous to be done in America.  WHY he chose to do what he did, is not the question.  The issue here is that we've seen incredible disruptions in our lives, and economy, and the stability of the global order.  Millions around the world have died.  Tinkering with viruses is inherently dangerous and we've understood this for a very long time.  Again... that's WHY it was illegal to do it HERE.

My greatest concern about his lies relates to the chaos we're seeing over the vaccines.  This guy isn't the janitor.  He's the top "expert" in our government with respect to this pandemic.  He has already been pilloried multiple times because he changes advice more times than Antifa changes their underwear.  NOW we find out he lied in a setting that that, had we done as much, we'd be facing prison time and the only reason we're even aware that he lied is because a third party interest sued to get these records - and won.  

He owes some serious answers to this nation and he needs to be asked those questions UNDER OATH.  You see... I guess I'm a little miffed that this guy can behave in this manner and be supported by millions of Americans but I and anyone else who decides to hold off on the jab, can be routinely threatened, and then potentially mocked when my lack of trust in the info coming from DC leads me to a choice that causes me to die.

No doubt we'll see a LOT of parsing going on in regard to the layers of responsibility as a result of how the grant money was allotted but the bottom line is, he knew GoF was happening.  If there is ever going to be a chance for average Americans to regain some trust in our government institutions that are tasked with protecting us from such scourges, it can only begin when people like him are forced to explain themselves... UNDER OATH.  

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Tatetopa
16 minutes ago, and then said:

If there is ever going to be a chance for average Americans to regain some trust in our government institutions that are tasked with protecting us from such scourges,

There never will be.  If Fauci testifies, you will say it is rigged and he is lying.  Especially if his testimony does not agree with your predetermined conclusions. Your article does not state Fauci lied.  The article  details two studies, what is in the rest of the 900 pages I don't know.  They outline studies  about transmission of disease from animals to humans and possible origins of Middle East SARS with possible paths for developing treatment.  If you have faith in that, you can assume they were doing it to try to get ahead of the next big outbreak.  Maybe they failed, maybe they had an accident. Maybe they did not.  You have decided they had a leak and lied about it.   I don't see that conclusion in the report excerpt.  

I have not doubt the government could and would lie to us.  I think they are about many issues.  I just have not seen evidence beyond dispute in this case yet.. 

23 minutes ago, and then said:

My greatest concern about his lies relates to the chaos we're seeing over the vaccines.  This guy isn't the janitor.  He's the top "expert" in our government with respect to this pandemic.  He has already been pilloried multiple times because he changes advice more times than Antifa changes their underwear. 

Well at least both have that in common.  Both  change when evidence or circumstance warrants.  It would be nice to have your commandments carved in stone and unchangeable,  but only a deity has that power and foresight. 

I am sorry that people are shouting and threatening you at meetings  and spitting on you and coughing on you in grocery stores and pounding on your car windows and yelling  "We know where you live." just because you refuse to get the jab.  

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and then
12 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

You have decided they had a leak and lied about it. 

Is that so?  Please pull that quote from anything I've posted.  I stopped being fussed with the whole lab leak business a long while back.  Ultimately, it did not matter at all.  The CCP intentionally allowed it to fly all over the globe while locking down their own provinces like they were afraid of losing the country.  THAT proves their intent as far as I'm concerned.  But, again, read what I said.  He LIED about our nation funding that research.  He did it in front of the cameras while attempting to be smug in front of Paul.

You are misdirecting and finding fault with issues I didn't even bring into the discussion.  It's about the problems we are facing as a nation that all can be reduced down to a lack of trust in people we have every RIGHT to be able to trust.  Tell ya what... once he and his associates at NIAID come clean under oath about this pandemic's spread and WHY they constantly changed their recommendations, and even lied about being involved in funding gain of function, THEN I'll reconsider the vaccine.  At this point, that vax is exactly the same as any other piece of info that's coming across the transom.  IOW, untrustworthy, just like everything else government and their media promulgate.  

Meanwhile, I'll toss you guys a bone.  If I catch a case of Coof and shuffle off my mortal coil, I'll be sure and have my wife let UM know.  I wouldn't want to deprive any of our loving, uber-concerned members of their chance to unleash a little more hate.  

 

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OverSword

About the only thing I could find from the reports with a quick search that indicated that these particular reports talk about what sounds like some form of Gain of Function is:

Quote

Importantly, we are not proposing to genetically manipulate SARS-CoV over the course of this proposal. However, we are proposing to genetically manipulate the full length bat SARSr-CoV WIV1 strain molecular clone during the course of the proposal, which is not a select agent, has not been shown to cause human infections, and has not been shown to be transmissible between humans. 3 Page 192 Select Agent Researchwe are not proposing to genetically manipulate SARS-CoV over the course of this proposal. However, we are proposing to genetically manipulate the full length bat SARSr-CoV WIV1 strain molecular clone during the course of the proposal, which is not a select agent, has not been shown to cause human infections, and has not been shown to be transmissible between humans.

Page 516 of https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/21055989-understanding-risk-bat-coronavirus-emergence-grant-notice

That report dated 2014:

From a 2016 National Academy of Sciences research article titled:

Quote

 

SARS-like WIV1-CoV poised for human emergence

The emergence of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus (SARS-CoV) and Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS)-CoV highlights the continued risk of cross-species transmission leading to epidemic disease. This manuscript describes efforts to extend surveillance beyond sequence analysis, constructing chimeric and full-length zoonotic coronaviruses to evaluate emergence potential. Focusing on SARS-like virus sequences isolated from Chinese horseshoe bats, the results indicate a significant threat posed by WIV1-CoV. Both full-length and chimeric WIV1-CoV readily replicated efficiently in human airway cultures and in vivo, suggesting capability of direct transmission to humans. In addition, while monoclonal antibody treatments prove effective, the SARS-based vaccine approach failed to confer protection. Together, the study indicates an ongoing threat posed by WIV1-related viruses and the need for continued study and surveillance.

 

Link

So to sum up the OP proposal form 2014 says 

Quote

SARSr-CoV WIV1(         )has not been shown to cause human infections, and has not been shown to be transmissible between humans.

While the research article from 2016 says:

Quote

WIV1-CoV readily replicated efficiently in human airway cultures and in vivo, suggesting capability of direct transmission to humans. In addition, while monoclonal antibody treatments prove effective, the SARS-based vaccine approach failed to confer protection. Together, the study indicates an ongoing threat posed by WIV1-related viruses and the need for continued study and surveillance.

I don't know enough to say if any of this is real proof of anything.

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Tatetopa
1 hour ago, and then said:

s that so?  Please pull that quote from anything I've posted.  I stopped being fussed with the whole lab leak business a long while back.  Ultimately, it did not matter at all.  The CCP intentionally allowed it to fly all over the globe while locking down their own provinces like they were afraid of losing the country.  THAT proves their intent as far as I'm concerned.  But, again, read what I said.  He LIED about our nation funding that research.  He did it in front of the cameras while attempting to be smug in front of Paul.

You are misdirecting and finding fault with issues I didn't even bring into the discussion.  It's about the problems we are facing as a nation that all can be reduced down to a lack of trust in people we have every RIGHT to be able to trust.  Tell ya what... once he and his associates at NIAID come clean under oath about this pandemic's spread and WHY they constantly changed their recommendations, and even lied about being involved in funding gain of function, THEN I'll reconsider the vaccine.  At this point, that vax is exactly the same as any other piece of info that's coming across the transom.  IOW, untrustworthy, just like everything else government and their media promulgate.  

Meanwhile, I'll toss you guys a bone.  If I catch a case of Coof and shuffle off my mortal coil, I'll be sure and have my wife let UM know.  I wouldn't want to deprive any of our loving, uber-concerned members of their chance to unleash a little more hate.  

Ok, was I wrong about your suspicions? If so, then I apologize.  We did fund research,he claims it was not gain of function.  

The problems we are facing as a nation can be largely laid at the feet of lack of trust.  Indeed, you are right.   It would be great if they testify under oath.  If they say they changed their advice as they learned more and swear to it will you believe it?  If they swear the research they funded was not gain of function would you believe it? 

It certainly seems to me like all government for the past 4 years and  all right wing media is based on lies.  Why would the left be any different?  I think we are too far gone for any Fauci testimony under oath to reverse things.

Don't worry about the vaccine. I think you may get by without it, and most likely you will outlive me, you are a at least a decade younger I think.  I have no need to cheer if you die before I do, or say you had it coming.  When the time comes, you really don't need to subject your wife to that either, she will have enough loss and grief.

 

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