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OverSword

Biden announces new vaccine mandates that could cover 100 million Americans

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OverSword
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(CNN)President Joe Biden on Thursday imposed stringent new vaccine rules on federal workers, large employers and health care staff in a sweeping attempt to contain the latest surge of Covid-19.

The new requirements could apply to as many as 100 million Americans, according to the White House, and amount to Biden's strongest push yet to require vaccines for much of the country.

"We've been patient, but our patience is wearing thin," Biden said of Americans who still refuse vaccinations, casting his new measures as necessary to push the minority of the nation that still hasn't been inoculated into getting shots.

He said Americans who have received vaccinations were growing "frustrated" with the 80 million people who have not. And he acknowledged the new steps would not provide a quick fix.

"While America is in much better shape than it was seven months ago when I took office, I need to tell you a second fact: We're in a tough stretch and it could last for awhile," Biden said in his speech.

In his speech, the President directed the Labor Department to require all businesses with 100 or more employees ensure their workers are either vaccinated or tested once a week. Companies could face thousands of dollars in fines per employee if they don't comply.

Biden has signed an executive order requiring all government employees be vaccinated against Covid-19, with no option of being regularly tested to opt out. The President also signed an order directing the same standard be applied to employees of contractors who do business with the federal government.

 

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acute

It's time to stop pússy-footing around the unvaccinated. They are either selfish, stupid, or both.

Let's make their lives HELL!  :devil:

 

[dramatic Hammer-Horror-style music]

 

Edited by acute
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Desertrat56

As long as they don't tell me which vaccine I have to get, (Pfizer/Moderna specifically) I think this is fine and no different than other vaccines that are required.

Edited by Desertrat56
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Desertrat56
21 minutes ago, acute said:

It's time to stop pússy-footing around the unvaccinated. They are either selfish, stupid, or both.

Let's make their lives HELL!  :devil:

 

[dramatic Hammer-Horror-style music]

 

Or they are cancer patients already taking immunotherapy drugs and can't take those vaccines and for some reason have no access to the J&J or Astra Zeneca.

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zep73

@Desertrat56 may I ask why you favor J&J/AZ instead of Pfizer/Moderna ? It is proven that the latter are 50% more effective (making 50% more people immune).

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Desertrat56
7 minutes ago, zep73 said:

@Desertrat56 may I ask why you favor J&J/AZ instead of Pfizer/Moderna ? It is proven that the latter are 50% more effective (making 50% more people immune).

Because the mRNA therapies that are in use for cancer treatment have a lot of side effects and that is how the strategy that Pfizer/Biontec & Moderna use.  The cancer immunotherapy drugs have only been in use for about 10 years and doctors only give them to certain people after a lot of testing to be sure they might help (you know cancer treatments are always a hope, not a fact).    Anyway, what the mRNA drugs do to your cells is very similar to what cancer does to your cells.    So Johnson & Johnson and Astra Zeneca used the same vaccine method that has been in use for flu vaccines for over 50 years and pnuemonia vaccines for a couple of decades.   You can look it up, but check on actual medical websites.  

Not to  mention, Israel is proving daily that the Pfizer vaccine is not as effective as advertised.   If there were a study of vaccinated people that got the virus that broke it down by vaccine company we would have better information, but right now all we have is what is going on in Israel in relation to the Pfizer vaccine and we don't really know how effective the other 3 are.

Edited by Desertrat56
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joc
38 minutes ago, acute said:

It's time to stop pússy-footing around the unvaccinated. They are either selfish, stupid, or both.

Let's make their lives HELL!  :devil:

 

[dramatic Hammer-Horror-style music]

 

Bring it on Motha!  :gun::alien::sk

The Stupid, The Selfish, and The Free   (dramatic whistling of the opening theme to The Good, the Bad and the Ugly)

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zep73
3 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

 Anyway, what the mRNA drugs do to your cells is very similar to what cancer does to your cells.

You asked me to look it up, but it's your claim. Please enlighten me with your sources.

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joc
48 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

As long as they don't tell me which vaccine I have to get, (Pfizer/Moderna specifically) I think this is fine and no different than other vaccines that are required.

What if they DO tell you which vaccine you have to take?  What will you do?

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Desertrat56
15 minutes ago, zep73 said:

You asked me to look it up, but it's your claim. Please enlighten me with your sources.

My first source that caused me to look it up is the commercials on Youtube and the television for these cancer drugs.  The list of Common side effects is enough to give pause.  I think it is illegal for those kinds of commercials (advertisement) in Europe and the UK (It makes no sense why they blast us with them, as they are prescription drugs that no one can just go ask for unless they have a quack for a doctor).   

https://www.cancer.gov/about-cancer/treatment/types/immunotherapy/side-effects

If you get therapy for Covid in a U.S. hospital is it a monclonal therapy.   

In the advertisements they have to mention the most common side effects and organ failure that causes death is usually mentioned.   It is in the list on that website.

This one is from December 2020.   Notice the first two bullets which essentially say "We don't know yet..."

http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/cep/COVID/mRNA vaccine review final.pdf

ADVERSE EFFECTS OF MESSENGER RNA VACCINES

An Evidence Review from the Penn Medicine Center for Evidence-based Practice

December 2020

Projectdirector:..........................NikhilK.Mull,MD (CEP)
Lead analyst: ............................. Matthew D. Mitchell, PhD (CEP) Clinical review: ........................... Patrick J. Brennan, MD. (CMO)

EVIDENCE SUMMARY

* There are no specific guidelines for use of messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccines or contraindications to mRNA vaccines. No large trials of any mRNA vaccine have been completed yet.

* The only evidence on safety of mRNA vaccines comes from small phase I and phase II trials of SARS-CoV-2 vaccines, with follow-up typically less than two months.

Systemic adverse events such as fatigue, muscle aches, headache, and chills are common. Severe systemic adverse events were reported by 5 to 10 percent of trial subjects. Localized adverse events such as pain at the injection side are common.
Both systemic and local adverse events usually are resolved within one or two days.

The rate and severity of adverse events appears to be higher for the second dose of vaccine than for the first. Higher vaccine doses appear to increase the rate and severity of adverse events.
Larger trials of SARS-CoV-2 vaccines are in progress, with results expected in mid-2021.
There is not sufficient evidence to support any conclusions on the comparative safety of different mRNA vaccines. Direct evidence on the comparative safety of mRNA vaccines and other vaccines is lacking.

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Desertrat56
6 minutes ago, joc said:

What if they DO tell you which vaccine you have to take?  What will you do?

Only if it is a proven vaccine, which the mRNA vaccines are not proven.

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joc
1 minute ago, Desertrat56 said:

Only if it is a proven vaccine, which the mRNA vaccines are not proven.

What if they mandate the mRNA vaccine...then what?

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Desertrat56
Just now, joc said:

What if they mandate the mRNA vaccine...then what?

Then I am sure a lot of people will join me along with Johnson & Johnson in sueing them.  

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Agent0range
1 minute ago, joc said:

What if they mandate the mRNA vaccine...then what?

As a federal employee, I can confidently say it is any vaccine.  When the mandate came down with the opportunity to opt out with testing, it was any of the 3 approved for emergency use within the US. 

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OverSword
7 minutes ago, Agent0range said:

As a federal employee, I can confidently say it is any vaccine.  When the mandate came down with the opportunity to opt out with testing, it was any of the 3 approved for emergency use within the US. 

I'm guessing that this hasn't happened earlier because they were waiting on FDA approval and so any mandate will probably be whichever vaccines have been approved for more than just emergency use.  As far as I know that is only Pfizer so far (?)  

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Agent0range
Just now, OverSword said:

I'm guessing that this hasn't happened earlier because they were waiting on FDA approval and so any mandate will probably be whichever vaccines have been approved for more than just emergency use.  As far as I know that is only Pfizer so far (?)  

The mandate happened because pfizer gained full approval, but all vaccines are still allowed as a personal choice.  I have the Moderna.  They aren't going to tell me at work tomorrow that I have to get the Pfizer too.  

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OverSword
3 minutes ago, Agent0range said:

The mandate happened because pfizer gained full approval, but all vaccines are still allowed as a personal choice.  I have the Moderna.  They aren't going to tell me at work tomorrow that I have to get the Pfizer too.  

You're already vaccinated though.  I was just guessing that if it's a mandate it would be a mandate for one that's approved.

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Agent0range
Just now, OverSword said:

You're already vaccinated though.  I was just guessing that if it's a mandate it would be a mandate for one that's approved.

Well, I do know we have all three available in our medical department...so I can't say for certain, but I don't think so.

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zep73

@Desertrat56

Half truths and omissions are dangerous, when it comes to health and safety. You need to obtain all available information to be sure.

The following publication about mRNA is fully peer-reviewed, and older than the pandemic:

https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243

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Trelane

Are there exceptions for those who refuse based on religious beliefs?

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F3SS

Biden said his patience is wearing thin. I wonder what happens when he runs out of patience? 

So for the hardcore types, like acute who wants to "make life hell" for others I'd like to know how you want to see this end with those who refuse til the end? Do you look forward to them being locked out of grocery stores, jobs and hospitals to starve and suffer in any imaginable way just because they're a "potential" threat? Do you want them to be ultimately rounded up in camps, decimating their families, orphaning their kids and maybe just plain eliminated on the firing line? 

Answer the questions. You'll have to accept 2 things. First, that you'll never get all these people to comply and nothing happens to them in which case you remain enraged as always or it gets crazy and the scenarios above play out. 

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acidhead
3 minutes ago, F3SS said:

Biden said his patience is wearing thin. I wonder what happens when he runs out of patience? 

So for the hardcore types, like acute who wants to "make life hell" for others I'd like to know how you want to see this end with those who refuse til the end? Do you look forward to them being locked out of grocery stores, jobs and hospitals to starve and suffer in any imaginable way just because they're a "potential" threat? Do you want them to be ultimately rounded up in camps, decimating their families, orphaning their kids and maybe just plain eliminated on the firing line? 

Answer the questions. You'll have to accept 2 things. First, that you'll never get all these people to comply and nothing happens to them in which case you remain enraged as always or it gets crazy and the scenarios above play out. 

 

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F3SS
18 minutes ago, acidhead said:

 

Loved the ending. He mentioned the new world order just like this lady...

 

 

Edited by F3SS
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Will Due

 

And some like Doug still wonder how the Nazis got the German people behind arresting Jews just for the sake of being Jewish.

 

 

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Tatetopa
52 minutes ago, F3SS said:

Answer the questions. You'll have to accept 2 things. First, that you'll never get all these people to comply and nothing happens to them in which case you remain enraged as always or it gets crazy and the scenarios above play out. 

Good question.  So far, it is not a law.  You cannot be arrested and put into prison.  But, the social and work pressure is mounting.   Most of the requirements give 3 choices:  take the vaccine, get tested every week, or if it is a private business they can pay the employee to stay home.  Businesses with less than  100 employees are not required to follow these procedures. So individuals still have multiple choices.  For those with medical conditions prohibiting vaccination, other avenues may be open.

Already the medical emergency pressure is exceeding system limits.  At least two states have had to ration critical care.  That means triage, just like on a battlefield.  The people who get the ICU beds are not the sickest, but the ones most likely to survive. They may have covid or they may have cancer, wouldn't matter, That is likely to spread to other states especially in the South.

So of those 80 million left, I reckon quite a number will get the jab.  If that gets us up to the numbers we need, 80%-90% to stop the spread, it has achieved its purpose.  There will be some who definitely refuse to the very end.   Most likely they will get to walk away without consequence. It makes a lot of people mad but there is no absolute justice in this world, and karma seem to work on delayed schedule sometimes. 

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