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Biden announces new vaccine mandates that could cover 100 million Americans


OverSword
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4 minutes ago, Myles said:

I wonder if the amish will have to get it.   They get exempt from all kinds of laws.  They are mostly a special kind of stupid who choose to live in their "loophole" lifestyle.

Who are they bothering though? They hitch a ride to the city, pound some shingles on and go back to the farm.

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7 minutes ago, Myles said:

I wonder if the amish will have to get it.   They get exempt from all kinds of laws.  They are mostly a special kind of stupid who choose to live in their "loophole" lifestyle.

I don't know.  I have never known any amish people.  My uncle lives in a menonite community and they are similar to the amish except they do have cars and electricity.   He was against masks in 2020 when I visited him.  I don't know how he feels about vaccine.

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7 minutes ago, F3SS said:

Man you love this stuff don't you. Your bumper sticker says govern me harder daddy doesn't it?

I keep hearing about the Nuremberg Code and your use of the word coerce got me to finally look it up. Seems to me that guys like you also would disregard this "old piece of paper".

 

Emphasis by me ^^^

I didn't hear Joe talk about possible negative outcomes, the duration of this experiment. All employees should have a legal document signed by their coercive employers to accept legal and financial responsibility for all negative outcomes that may arise from the vaccine from now until the end of time. 

Every year I have to sign a statement that I am following the university's code of research ethics as they pertain to human beings, even though my research deals only with trees and in my most-recent paper, is entirely theoretical.

Things like the Nuremberg Trials and the Tuskogee Experiment are the reason the code exists (and one of the reasons blacks show vaccine resistance).

Once cleared for normal public use by the CDC, a treatment (like the covid vaccine) is no longer experimental and so does not fall under the code of ethics.  Experiments are no longer being run with it.  BioNTech has already been approved and so, is not an experimental treatment any more..

It is standard practice to continue monitoring all vaccines.  But the monitoring is considered a separate experiment and as it doesn't involve treatments - just observations - the vaccines are not affected.

BIONTECH IS NOT AN EXPERIMENTAL TREATMENT ANYMORE.

Doug

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1 minute ago, Doug1066 said:

BIONTECH IS NOT AN EXPERIMENTAL TREATMENT ANYMORE.

It's barely been around a year so yea it kind of is.

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13 minutes ago, Myles said:

I wonder if the amish will have to get it.   They get exempt from all kinds of laws.  They are mostly a special kind of stupid who choose to live in their "loophole" lifestyle.

 

IMG_3388.jpg

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1 hour ago, Myles said:

I don't think they make many people "immune" to getting it, it just lessens the symptoms a lot.   

1 hour ago, Desertrat56 said:

I think Israel is proof that that is a lie.  A big lie.

My mistake. Somehow I forgot what the delta variant can do. My head was in the past, when I wrote that.

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17 minutes ago, F3SS said:

It's barely been around a year so yea it kind of is.

We have already administered something like 250 million shots.  It's going to be hard to find a larger experimental population than that.

Doug

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6 minutes ago, Doug1066 said:

We have already administered something like 250 million shots.  It's going to be hard to find a larger experimental population than that.

Doug

It sure is so why not just relax with the mandates and coercion tactics.  Administering shots has already been a smashing success so get off our backs.

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36 minutes ago, F3SS said:

Who are they bothering though? They hitch a ride to the city, pound some shingles on and go back to the farm.

There are lots of amish around me.   Always horse crap in on the road.  Children can drive the cart even without adults in them so they are veering all over.  

They use power tools but charge them at non amish peoples houses.   The will own a car but cannot park it on their property and can only use it for work.  I have the real dumb amish around here.   They will not allow enclosed buggies.   Just an open cart.   In the winter when it is snowing and raining and it is under 20 degrees, the whole family, including infants are freezing.

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16 minutes ago, Doug1066 said:

We have already administered something like 250 million shots.  It's going to be hard to find a larger experimental population than that.

Doug

But we still have to compile the data for a couple of years before we can know anything for certain.

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4 minutes ago, Myles said:

There are lots of amish around me.   Always horse crap in on the road.  Children can drive the cart even without adults in them so they are veering all over.  

They use power tools but charge them at non amish peoples houses.   The will own a car but cannot park it on their property and can only use it for work.  I have the real dumb amish around here.   They will not allow enclosed buggies.   Just an open cart.   In the winter when it is snowing and raining and it is under 20 degrees, the whole family, including infants are freezing.

I see what you mean. I wonder if they think we are stupid for being so reliant on modern technologies.

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37 minutes ago, F3SS said:

It sure is so why not just relax with the mandates and coercion tactics.  Administering shots has already been a smashing success so get off our backs.

So who's on your backs?  I really don't care whether you live or die.  Maybe someday I might ask, "Where did F3SS go to?"  But probably, I wouldn't even notice that you weren't posting snymore.

 

Anti-vaxxers (for lack of a better word) are keeping the epidemic going, delaying economic recovery and serving as a potential reservoir for new variants.  Maybe that has something to do with why people are on your backs.

I'm tired of wearing this mask just because some anti-vaxxers are too irresponsible to do their part.

Doug

P.S.:  The university is holding another super-spreader event tomorrow (aka football game).  We have reached the point where new cases are showing up.  The hospital has no more bed space.  Triage is in effect.  An injury, like say, a car accident, will be flown out-of-state.  There will be no elective surgery for the rest of the month.  A gall stone could be fatal.

In another few weeks we will begin seeing the first dead kids.  Probably only two or three.  But that's two or three more than had to die.  And we know how to stop it, if only our administration has the balls.

Doug

Edited by Doug1066
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1 hour ago, Doug1066 said:

Anti-vaxxers (for lack of a better word) are keeping the epidemic going

So are the vaccinated, who are also spreading and contracting the viruses

Quote

delaying economic recovery

That would be the Government forcing businesses closed and stealing your wealth out from under you.

Quote

and serving as a potential reservoir for new variants.

So are the vaccinated, who Fauci called "super spreaders". When you don't actually eliminate the virus in your body due to faulty vaccines, the virus mutates and becomes more contagious. The vaccinated are petri dishes mutating variants at least as much as or possibly more so than the unvaccinated. That's not your fault, that's Pfizer's fault.

Quote

I'm tired of wearing this mask just because some anti-vaxxers are too irresponsible to do their part.

The Government is forcing you to wear a mask while blaming the unvaccinated. Other countries don't have the same mandates. Remember at the beginning of the pandemic when we were told masks are not effective?

Quote

P.S.:  The university is holding another super-spreader event tomorrow (aka football game).  We have reached the point where new cases are showing up. 

New cases are showing in the vaccinated as well. Plenty of new cases. The most vaccinated countries are seeing the biggest outbreaks of variants.

Quote

The hospital has no more bed space. 

Which Hospital? In two years, I haven't seen one picture of a Hospital packed with covid patients in any country. On the contrary, plenty of people have posted pictures of empty halls at their local Hospitals. Plenty of nurses have blown the whistle on this as well.

Quote

Triage is in effect.  An injury, like say, a car accident, will be flown out-of-state.  There will be no elective surgery for the rest of the month.  A gall stone could be fatal.

That's the fault of the Hospital emptying out the patients to deal with flu infections. Now Hospitals are swamped with a backlog of patients they didn't want to deal with in 2020. Cancer screenings, etc. 

Quote

In another few weeks we will begin seeing the first dead kids.  Probably only two or three.  But that's two or three more than had to die.  And we know how to stop it, if only our administration has the balls.

Plenty of kids have already suffered the rare side effects of experimental mRNA drugs. This winter, I predict we will see a massive rise in hospitalized vaccinated individuals. Google "vaccine ADE". Fully vaccinated people who contract covid seem to get it much, much worse.

Link 

Quote

Boys more at risk from Pfizer jab side-effect than Covid, suggests study

Healthy boys may be more likely to be admitted to hospital with a rare side-effect of the Pfizer/BioNTech Covid vaccine that causes inflammation of the heart than with Covid itself, US researchers claim.

I know you want to do the right thing but I'm telling you: you are being lied to on every level, whether intentional or not. The vaccines are a red herring. 

Link

Quote

Covid vaccines won't end pandemic and officials must now 'gradually adapt strategy' to cope with inevitable spread of virus, World Health Organization official warns

Some experts initially thought that once enough people were vaccinated, the virus would be unable to spread. But while the jabs are highly effective at preventing hospitalisations and deaths, they are less effective at stopping transmission, leading officials to warn that the world must learn to live with the virus. 

The Government doesn't care about you, they only care about money. "It's easier to fool someone than to convince them they have been fooled" - this is where we are now. A lot of people don't want to admit they were fooled. Unfortunately, it's now costing us our civil liberties.

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You can't comply your way out of this. No Government that has taken so much power ever gave it back.

donkeycarrot.jpg

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1 hour ago, Doug1066 said:

In another few weeks we will begin seeing the first dead kids.  Probably only two or three.  But that's two or three more than had to die.  And we know how to stop it, if only our administration has the balls.

You're already seeing it in some states. I read earlier that one particular city or state had more child deaths in the last 3 weeks as they've had in the past 18 months or something crazy like that. I can't remember the exact details but it was pretty shocking to read.

It's like a collective mental illness over there. The culture of, 'Nobody tells me what to do' meets a tiny, inconsequential inconvenience and people are going nuts. You have idiots taking horse dewormer, the human studies of which have found an 85% infertility rate, over one of the most tested and scrutinised group of vaccines ever trialed on humans.

And large swathes of Scotland is the same. We have a huge amount of morons who care about nothing but themselves as well. Let's hope they also sterilise themselves with horse dewormer.

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10 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

Which Hospital? In two years, I haven't seen one picture of a Hospital packed with covid patients in any country. On the contrary, plenty of people have posted pictures of empty halls at their local Hospitals. Plenty of nurses have blown the whistle on this as well.

I was in one.  With covid.  When I was admitted (10/29/20) there were 30 ICU beds with 30 patients.  There were another 30 ward beds with 28 occupied.  They sent one patient home so I and another person could have the last two beds.  Nine days later they sent me home to make room for someone who was sicker than I was.  I managed to escape without needing a respirator or ending up in ICU, but the doctor discussed that possibility with me.

That hospital enlarged its capacity by 30 more beds by moving into an office building.  As the pandemic ebbed over the summer, the office building was converted back into an office.

But also, nurses have quit so that even if they expand again, they don't have the staff.

 

Also, I had a fifth floor room overlooking the helipad.  I watched them load people into the helicopter.  My wife told me the next day how many got shipped to Joplin (When they were discharged from Joplin, they had to figure out how to get themselves home.).  I don't know how much a helicopter ride is these days, but I guarantee it ain't cheap.

Doug

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20 minutes ago, Dark_Grey said:

So are the vaccinated, who are also spreading and contracting the viruses

That would be the Government forcing businesses closed and stealing your wealth out from under you.

So are the vaccinated, who Fauci called "super spreaders". When you don't actually eliminate the virus in your body due to faulty vaccines, the virus mutates and becomes more contagious. The vaccinated are petri dishes mutating variants at least as much as or possibly more so than the unvaccinated. That's not your fault, that's Pfizer's fault.

The Government is forcing you to wear a mask while blaming the unvaccinated. Other countries don't have the same mandates. Remember at the beginning of the pandemic when we were told masks are not effective?

New cases are showing in the vaccinated as well. Plenty of new cases. The most vaccinated countries are seeing the biggest outbreaks of variants.

Which Hospital? In two years, I haven't seen one picture of a Hospital packed with covid patients in any country. On the contrary, plenty of people have posted pictures of empty halls at their local Hospitals. Plenty of nurses have blown the whistle on this as well.

That's the fault of the Hospital emptying out the patients to deal with flu infections. Now Hospitals are swamped with a backlog of patients they didn't want to deal with in 2020. Cancer screenings, etc. 

Plenty of kids have already suffered the rare side effects of experimental mRNA drugs. This winter, I predict we will see a massive rise in hospitalized vaccinated individuals. Google "vaccine ADE". Fully vaccinated people who contract covid seem to get it much, much worse.

Link 

I know you want to do the right thing but I'm telling you: you are being lied to on every level, whether intentional or not. The vaccines are a red herring. 

Link

The Government doesn't care about you, they only care about money. "It's easier to fool someone than to convince them they have been fooled" - this is where we are now. A lot of people don't want to admit they were fooled. Unfortunately, it's now costing us our civil liberties.

What an absolute **** show of a post. You're right down the rabbit hole I see. You've actually tried to argue that vaccines spread the viruses they inoculate against.

You have less than no clue what you're talking about. 

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5 minutes ago, ExpandMyMind said:

You're already seeing it in some states.

I know.  I was referring to right here where I live.  The hospital is already full and the new wave of infections is just kicking off.

Doug

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1 hour ago, Doug1066 said:

So who's on your backs?  I really don't care whether you live or die.  Maybe someday I might ask, "Where did F3SS go to?"  But probably, I wouldn't even notice that you weren't posting snymore.

 

Anti-vaxxers (for lack of a better word) are keeping the epidemic going, delaying economic recovery and serving as a potential reservoir for new variants.  Maybe that has something to do with why people are on your backs.

I'm tired of wearing this mask just because some anti-vaxxers are too irresponsible to do their part.

Doug

P.S.:  The university is holding another super-spreader event tomorrow (aka football game).  We have reached the point where new cases are showing up.  The hospital has no more bed space.  Triage is in effect.  An injury, like say, a car accident, will be flown out-of-state.  There will be no elective surgery for the rest of the month.  A gall stone could be fatal.

In another few weeks we will begin seeing the first dead kids.  Probably only two or three.  But that's two or three more than had to die.  And we know how to stop it, if only our administration has the balls.

Doug

You don't care whether I live or die so long as I live on your terms while I'm alive. Yea ok.

I never had covid so why does it need to mutate for me? Maybe the new variants are trying to find ways around your vaccine. You can still get it and spread it.

Then don't wear it. Nobody is making you. Although current recommendations are that the vaxed still should wear masks anyways.

Balls huh. You want a dictator. You want someone to use the barrel of a gun to force people to live the way you want them to. This pandemic has brought the inner brownshirt out of so many. You want all these precedents set without considering how they might get turned around on you someday.

 

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16 minutes ago, F3SS said:

Balls huh. You want a dictator. You want someone to use the barrel of a gun to force people to live the way you want them to.

Hi F3SS

How is this any different than the mandate to wear a seatbelt or sexual harassment, it is there because it is in the interest of the safety of general public?

Edited by jmccr8
spulling
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1 hour ago, ExpandMyMind said:

I read earlier that one particular city or state had more child deaths in the last 3 weeks as they've had in the past 18 months or something crazy like that.

From covid?  Can you provide a link?

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1 hour ago, Doug1066 said:

I was in one.  With covid.  When I was admitted (10/29/20) there were 30 ICU beds with 30 patients.  There were another 30 ward beds with 28 occupied.  They sent one patient home so I and another person could have the last two beds.  Nine days later they sent me home to make room for someone who was sicker than I was.  I managed to escape without needing a respirator or ending up in ICU, but the doctor discussed that possibility with me.

That hospital enlarged its capacity by 30 more beds by moving into an office building.  As the pandemic ebbed over the summer, the office building was converted back into an office.

But also, nurses have quit so that even if they expand again, they don't have the staff.

 

Also, I had a fifth floor room overlooking the helipad.  I watched them load people into the helicopter.  My wife told me the next day how many got shipped to Joplin (When they were discharged from Joplin, they had to figure out how to get themselves home.).  I don't know how much a helicopter ride is these days, but I guarantee it ain't cheap.

Doug

And how about now?  Less?  More?  the same?  Where are you?

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39 minutes ago, F3SS said:

It sure is so why not just relax with the mandates and coercion tactics.  Administering shots has already been a smashing success so get off our backs.

I have two beefs with all of these arguments, neither limited to covid, but in general to our society and system of government.  I suspect it will take legal action to define the limits.

My first concern has to do with  the protection of individual rights.  Our government is supposed to protect individual rights against incursions by the government and also against incursions by other citizens. Along with defense of the republic that might be their major justification for continued existence. 

There is the protection of the rights and responsibilities of groups that oppose vaccination.  If they can show irreparable harm, it should be  taken to court.  I am certainly not a lawyer but they may have a case.  There are not going to be waivers by employers, but like asbestos and other lung carcinogens there may be a lot of class action settlements in the future.  Also like asbestos or silicosis or black lung, compensation may occur many years down the road as symptoms show up.

There is also the group of citizens possibly harmed by these individuals.  A person who did not take the vaccine or wear a mask might receive notice of legal action a decade from now.  If a person can show that negligence, carelessness, or defiance of common sense precautions  by that non-masked individual  caused irreparable harm to  them or their family, they might have enough basis for a lawsuit,

I bet there is already a herd of personal injury lawyers exploring the possibility of capitalizing on this issue. 

My second concern is the light way we throw away people's lives in a statistic.  "Fatality rate is only .002%"  for example.  Makes it seem tiny and a very small risk doesn't it?

 Lets say we decide that we will no longer protect the Gulf Coast from hurricanes or provide emergency rescue services because they are too expensive and too much trouble.  We predict no more that .002% of the population will die in storms.   That is only 600,000 US citizens and hardly worth getting the rest of us excited or inconvenienced is it?  Or if we said there are only 100 US citizens still in Afghanistan, that is only .0000003% of our population. Send them bus fare and be done with it. And I'm sure it would not interest anyone outside a small circle of friends.

How we protect our rights and how we care for all citizens. are two points a that define some of the basic tenants of our society. 

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1 hour ago, jmccr8 said:

Hi F3SS

How is this any different than the mandate to wear a seatbelt or sexual harassment, it is there because it is in the interest of the safety of general public?

Because it's medicine that is injected into your bloodstream and is there for life. It should be recommended not forced. Harassment encroaches and violates another's personal freedom in a direct and absolute way. That is far different from the assumption that someone is possibly infected and will infect you. It's basically unprovable and frankly prejudiced. When you are that fearful of society it is on you to take every precaution you desire. It isn't everybody else's job to protect you by taking medicine as demanded by politicians and social media.

Seatbelts... idk. That's basically a personal decision in every way. It amounts to a traffic ticket. Hardly a life altering outcome unless of course it ends you up in the hospital in which case there have never been any calls for those who broke that law to be denied treatment.

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