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OverSword

The Surprisingly Strong Supreme Court Precedent Supporting Vaccine Mandates

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Manwon Lender
8 hours ago, Piney said:

I have this plant client who has a condition where she can't get the vaccine, yet covid will kill her and she is terrified and wishes she could get it. I feel bad for her.

 

That's a shame, and there are certainly people like that hopefully they will figure out a way to help people like her.

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psyche101
On 9/16/2021 at 2:53 PM, Paranoid Android said:

Hey Psyche, perhaps there's a miscommunication here but it sounds like you just said the same thing I said but in more politically correct language. These people aren't "homeless", they're "sleeping rough". These children aren't "suffering from autism", they're "living with a disiability". Our government hasn't "mandated away our freedom to protest", it's "placed restrictions on our ability to gather". Can you help me see a functional difference between these two statements, please?

~ Regards, 

Yes.

Covid had placed our health ministers in a situation whereby they have had to place certain general restrictions in heavily affected areas for the safety of the general public. People who ignore those restrictions are breaking the law. Being arrested for breaking the law is not a restriction. 

Legitimate people who protest without incident, and abide by laws aren't restricted at all. 

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Paranoid Android
On 9/19/2021 at 8:51 PM, psyche101 said:

Yes.

Covid had placed our health ministers in a situation whereby they have had to place certain general restrictions in heavily affected areas for the safety of the general public. People who ignore those restrictions are breaking the law. Being arrested for breaking the law is not a restriction. 

Legitimate people who protest without incident, and abide by laws aren't restricted at all. 

Hi Psyche, I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I still don't see a functional difference here. 

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Myles
On 9/10/2021 at 8:36 AM, Liquid Gardens said:

ly depleted to the point where there's a danger of not being able to treat other patients because of smokers and people not wearing seat belts.

Unfortunately in our country, black people at least have cause to be wary of the medical community:  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study

If you accept that excuse you would have to accept it for all races.  One could say that the government has done this before so they could do it again.  Doesn't necessarily have to be a certain race.  

I don't think it is a valid excuse.   Only 10% of African Americans are vaccinated.  The media shuns this a bit and focuses on Republicans not being vaccinated.  

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Liquid Gardens
2 hours ago, Myles said:

If you accept that excuse you would have to accept it for all races.  One could say that the government has done this before so they could do it again.  Doesn't necessarily have to be a certain race.  

Then simply find me the examples of events like this that involved white people, proportional to the population. Until then, no, that makes no sense, I don't have to accept it for all races until you provide evidence this occurs for all races.

2 hours ago, Myles said:

The media shuns this a bit and focuses on Republicans not being vaccinated.  

I did say 'at least' when referring to the distrust by black people, it's not like it's a great reason but is also tied in with economics and racial disparities in the health care system.  What's the Republicans' excuse?  Are there large groups of black people getting a lot of attention and spreading anti-vax nonsense and disinformation, and encouraging others not to get vaccinated? There are of Republicans, as well as some of their political leaders, are you sure that's not why Republicans are getting the media attention?  If you want to compare media treatment you should compare apples to apples at least.  

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OverSword
5 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Are there large groups of black people getting a lot of attention and spreading anti-vax nonsense and disinformation, and encouraging others not to get vaccinated?

Are there large groups of anyone doing that?  There may be large groups of people not vaccinated, mainly from red states or in minority groups, but I don't see people discouraging others from getting vaccinated.  I see individuals not wanting to take the vaccine for whatever reason.

Edited by OverSword
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Liquid Gardens
12 minutes ago, OverSword said:

I don't see people discouraging others from getting vaccinated.

I thought you, wisely, didn't do social media though.  Do you deny that there are large groups of people who are Republicans spreading anti-vax misinformation and that it is a factor in the numbers of Republicans not getting vaccinated?  And that this issue is disproportionately Republican on the political spectrum?

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OverSword
10 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

I thought you, wisely, didn't do social media though.  Do you deny that there are large groups of people who are Republicans spreading anti-vax misinformation and that it is a factor in the numbers of Republicans not getting vaccinated?  And that this issue is disproportionately Republican on the political spectrum?

Well as I've said I'm not on facebook or twitter and as far as I know those platforms delete unscientific content regarding vaccines, so where do these large groups  spread the word? 

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Michelle
46 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Are there large groups of black people getting a lot of attention and spreading anti-vax nonsense and disinformation, and encouraging others not to get vaccinated?

Maybe not getting a lot of attention in the media. One thing I've learned from our black friends, regardless of how well educated they are, they will tell you they haven't gotten the vaccine and don't intend to. They respect people enough to give them space to ease their minds though.

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Hammerclaw
33 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

I thought you, wisely, didn't do social media though.  Do you deny that there are large groups of people who are Republicans spreading anti-vax misinformation and that it is a factor in the numbers of Republicans not getting vaccinated?  And that this issue is disproportionately Republican on the political spectrum?

You mean Republicans like these using social recognition to spread the anti vax message?

28 Celebrities Who Are Anti-Vaxxers (alot.com)

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Myles
56 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Then simply find me the examples of events like this that involved white people, proportional to the population. Until then, no, that makes no sense, I don't have to accept it for all races until you provide evidence this occurs for all races.

 

I think there are many who served in Vietnam and were subjected to agent orange who would disagree.    You are just giving African Americans a convenient excuse that you won't give to others.  

Yes, the government has subjected white people to cruel medical experiments.   Several were prisoners.   So do any people in jail have a valid excuse too?  If you have a stutter, is that a good excuse?   There were cruel experiments on people who stutter.   I'll have to look it up again.  

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Myles
1 hour ago, Liquid Gardens said:

 

I did say 'at least' when referring to the distrust by black people, it's not like it's a great reason but is also tied in with economics and racial disparities in the health care system. 

No it is not.    The vaccines are readily available to anyone.   Even more so in metropolitan communities.  

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Hammerclaw
16 minutes ago, Myles said:

No it is not.    The vaccines are readily available to anyone.   Even more so in metropolitan communities.  

You can get it for free at Walmart, for chrissakes! How more egalitarian could it get?

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Myles
3 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

You can get it for free at Walmart, for chrissakes! How more egalitarian could it get?

CVS as well and there is one of those every few blocks.

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Hammerclaw
1 hour ago, Liquid Gardens said:

I thought you, wisely, didn't do social media though.  Do you deny that there are large groups of people who are Republicans spreading anti-vax misinformation and that it is a factor in the numbers of Republicans not getting vaccinated?  And that this issue is disproportionately Republican on the political spectrum?

Yes, as it is the intensity of one's politics, not the flavor, that tends to lead to anti vax sentiments.

Anti-vaccination beliefs don't follow the usual political polarization (theconversation.com)

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Liquid Gardens
56 minutes ago, Myles said:

I think there are many who served in Vietnam and were subjected to agent orange who would disagree.   

Huh?  I wasn't aware that black soldiers were not affected by agent orange disproportionately.

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Myles
3 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Huh?  I wasn't aware that black soldiers were not affected by agent orange disproportionately.

Many races were affected which leads me to believe that many races could distrust the government for valid reasons.  Not just black people.

I also do not think that is the reason 90% of black people refuse to get the vaccination.  

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Liquid Gardens
1 minute ago, Myles said:

Many races were affected which leads me to believe that many races could distrust the government for valid reasons.  Not just black people.

Many races were not affected by the Tuskegee Syphilis Study, that is the point.  The question wasn't do people have reasons to mistrust the government, it was do some races have more reasons to mistrust the government than others, which may be a factor in the disparity in vaccinations.

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Hugh Mungus
10 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Many races were not affected by the Tuskegee Syphilis Study, that is the point.  The question wasn't do people have reasons to mistrust the government, it was do some races have more reasons to mistrust the government than others, which may be a factor in the disparity in vaccinations.

If you know that the government has injected viruses into its citizens for a medical experiment, why does it matter which race it was done too or by? It was done by the government to its citizens. That's a much bigger divide than black vs white

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Liquid Gardens
1 hour ago, Hammerclaw said:

You mean Republicans like these using social recognition to spread the anti vax message?

The key word of course being 'disproportionate'.  It is true that anti-vax used to be more of a leftie granola-crunchy thing, but that has changed.  Jenny McCarthy's anti-vax heyday just happens to correspond with anti-vax sentiments from celebrity Donald Trump, wonder who was more influential...

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Hammerclaw
1 minute ago, Liquid Gardens said:

The key word of course being 'disproportionate'.  It is true that anti-vax used to be more of a leftie granola-crunchy thing, but that has changed.  Jenny McCarthy's anti-vax heyday just happens to correspond with anti-vax sentiments from celebrity Donald Trump, wonder who was more influential...

The guy who drove the warp speed development of vaccines is an anti vax influence? The vaccines Harris, Pelosi and Biden were against? You Lefties are totally twisted.

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Liquid Gardens
1 minute ago, Hugh Mungus said:

If you know that the government has injected viruses into its citizens for a medical experiment, why does it matter which race it was done too or by?

Because it was done to only one race, like many things have only been done to one race.  Why should such a pattern be ignored?

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Hugh Mungus
9 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Because it was done to only one race, like many things have only been done to one race.  Why should such a pattern be ignored?

Pattern? It was a medical experiment. The next one might be on you. 

To the government, everyone is a N word

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Liquid Gardens
5 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

The guy who drove the warp speed development of vaccines is an anti vax influence?

You're not seriously arguing for some baseline of consistency with him I hope.  "The guy who was for the Iraq war is now against it?"

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Myles
12 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Many races were not affected by the Tuskegee Syphilis Study, that is the point.  The question wasn't do people have reasons to mistrust the government, it was do some races have more reasons to mistrust the government than others, which may be a factor in the disparity in vaccinations.

That is not the point.   The point is that anyone has valid reasons to distrust the government because they have seen what they have done to their own citizens.  Not only in Tuskegee, but many places and times in our country.  Only letting that be valid for 1 race is dumb.  

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