Denmark lifts ALL restrictions

[zep73]

16 hours ago, simplybill said:

This is a great article about Sweden’s response to Covid and lockdowns. Initially, their mortality rate rose, but soon it began to steadily drop. They had virtually no lockdowns.

From the article (posted yesterday from Sweden):

“At the time of writing, more than 50 countries have a higher death rate. If you measure excess mortality for the whole of 2020, Sweden (according to Eurostat) will end up in 21st place out of 31 European countries. If Sweden was a part of the US, its death rate would rank number 43 of the 50 states.”

https://unherd.com/2021/11/how-sweden-swerved-covid-disaster/

Yes, but it came at a high cost.
If you compare Sweden to its neighbors, three times more people died. Most of them could have survived with a lockdown.

[aztek]

yea survive the lock down then die when it is lifted.  as in israel, smh, do people even consider reality anymore?

[simplybill]

58 minutes ago, zep73 said:

Yes, but it came at a high cost.
If you compare Sweden to its neighbors, three times more people died. Most of them could have survived with a lockdown.

Some of the most-vaccinated and most-restricted countries also have some of the highest rates of re-infection (i.e. Israel and Ireland). We’re told that the vaccines will lessen the severity of symptoms, and yet hospitals are filling up with vaccinated people. If they require hospitalization, that’s a pretty good indication that their symptoms are actually very severe.

Yes, more people died at the onset, but the numbers in Sweden have dropped and are still dropping. Our governments should by now realize that lockdowns aren’t as effective in the long-game. This particular virus has a way of eluding every attempt to control it, and it now appears that fewer restrictions = fewer deaths.

”If you measure excess mortality for the whole of 2020, Sweden (according to Eurostat) will end up in 21st place out of 31 European countries. If Sweden was a part of the US, its death rate would rank number 43 of the 50 states.”

https://unherd.com/2021/11/how-sweden-swerved-covid-disaster/

[zep73]

10 minutes ago, simplybill said:

Some of the most-vaccinated and most-restricted countries also have some of the highest rates of re-infection

I don't know where you got that from, but if it's true, it's only half of the story. Providing it's true, most of those re-infections would be harmless. Like a cold.

Quote

We’re told that the vaccines will lessen the severity of symptoms, and yet hospitals are filling up with vaccinated people. If they require hospitalization, that’s a pretty good indication that their symptoms are actually very severe.

15% - 40% of the vaccinated has no gain from the vaccines. In big countries that would add up to a lot of people.

Quote

Yes, more people died at the onset, but the numbers in Sweden have dropped and are still dropping.

That's a poor comfort for the 10,000 who died due to reckless health politics, and their loved ones.

Quote

Our governments should by now realize that lockdowns aren’t as effective in the long-game. This particular virus has a way of eluding every attempt to control it, and it now appears that fewer restrictions = fewer deaths.

That's BS based on a very poor understanding (or a deliberate twisting) of the statistics. The only things lockdowns hurt are the economy and people's mood.

[simplybill]

25 minutes ago, zep73 said:

That's BS based on a very poor understanding (or a deliberate twisting) of the statistics. The only things lockdowns hurt are the economy and people's mood.

If you don’t mind creating an account, you can read the statistics from the New York Times.

Here in the US, Michigan has been one of the most-restricted states, while Florida has been one of the least-restricted. Michigan currently has 7 times the rate of new Covid cases as Florida. (49 per 100,000 vs. 7 per 100,000). 
 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/covid-cases.html
 

[zep73]

34 minutes ago, simplybill said:

If you don’t mind creating an account, you can read the statistics from the New York Times.

Here in the US, Michigan has been one of the most-restricted states, while Florida has been one of the least-restricted. Michigan currently has 7 times the rate of new Covid cases as Florida. (49 per 100,000 vs. 7 per 100,000). 
 

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/covid-cases.html
 

But they both have almost the same death rate. That's what really counts.

You've got to keep in mind that saving people's life during an epidemic is a two-step process.
First you prevent spread by preventing mingling and close contact. That is done with lockdowns and restrictions.
The second step is getting as many as possible vaccinated. If one of the steps fail, the whole plan is at risk.

Florida has 60.2% vaccinated while Michigan has 53,8%.
What Florida failed with in restrictions, they made up (a bit) in vaccinations, and vice versa. They both could have done so much better, by completing both steps!

Edited November 10, 2021 by zep73

[The_Phantom_Stranger]

23 minutes ago, zep73 said:

But they both have almost the same death rate. That's what really counts.

You've got to keep in mind that saving people's life during an epidemic is a two-step process.
First you prevent spread by preventing mingling and close contact. That is done with lockdowns and restrictions.
The second step is getting as many as possible vaccinated. If one of the steps fail, the whole plan is at risk.

Florida has 60.2% vaccinated while Michigan has 53,8%.
What Florida failed with in restrictions, they made up (a bit) in vaccinations, and vice versa. They both could have done so much better, by completing both steps!

A 6.4% difference in vaccination rates shouldn't cause a 7x difference. It doesn't even make sense because with the population difference, Florida still has almost twice as many unvaccinated people as Michigan.

Edited November 10, 2021 by The_Phantom_Stranger

[zep73]

4 minutes ago, The_Phantom_Stranger said:

A 6.4% difference in vaccination rates shouldn't cause a 7x difference. It doesn't even make sense because with the population difference, Florida still has twice as many unvaccinated people as Michigan.

I wasn't talking about infection rates. Severe illness and death rates are what matters.
Infection rates can have many reasons, like population density and habits, traditions and routines.

[The_Phantom_Stranger]

21 minutes ago, zep73 said:

I wasn't talking about infection rates. Severe illness and death rates are what matters.
Infection rates can have many reasons, like population density and habits, traditions and routines.

According to the NY times article Florida has about 2.5 times more deaths than Michigan. What I think I'm seeing here is that there is a string of new infections in some northern states. I'm guessing it is somehow related to New York which was the epicenter of the Virus. Colorado and Arizona also stand out.

[simplybill]

19 minutes ago, zep73 said:

Infection rates can have many reasons, like population density and habits, traditions and routines.

Adding some statistical parameters, Florida is doing remarkably better than Michigan. 
Florida has more than twice the population density as Michigan: 140.8 per sq/k for Florida vs. 67.6 per sq/k for Michigan.

Florida has a higher percentage of elderly people, who by a wide margin are more susceptible to Covid: Florida’s elderly population is 20.1% vs. Michigan’s 16.7%.

As of today, November 10th, the Covid death rate in Florida over the last seven days is .5 per 100,000 people. Michigan is at .42 per 100,000.

The difference in death rates is statistically insignificant in my opinion, when population density and the percentage of the most-vulnerable age group are factored in. And of course keeping in mind that Florida has been one of the least-restricted states in US, it appears to me they’ve more than adequately responded to this coronavirus without damaging their economy compared to the states with the most restrictions.

With this coronavirus, we should be concentrating on the long-game, and not the initial onset of the pandemic when nobody knew what this virus was capable of.

 

[The_Phantom_Stranger]

Just to clarify, I was going off the actual numbers not the ratio in death rates. 

@simplybill @zep73

[zep73]

8 minutes ago, simplybill said:

Adding some statistical parameters, Florida is doing remarkably better than Michigan. 
Florida has more than twice the population density as Michigan: 140.8 per sq/k for Florida vs. 67.6 per sq/k for Michigan.

Florida has a higher percentage of elderly people, who by a wide margin are more susceptible to Covid: Florida’s elderly population is 20.1% vs. Michigan’s 16.7%.

As of today, November 10th, the Covid death rate in Florida over the last seven days is .5 per 100,000 people. Michigan is at .42 per 100,000.

The difference in death rates is statistically insignificant in my opinion, when population density and the percentage of the most-vulnerable age group are factored in. And of course keeping in mind that Florida has been one of the least-restricted states in US, it appears to me they’ve more than adequately responded to this coronavirus without damaging their economy compared to the states with the most restrictions.

With this coronavirus, we should be concentrating on the long-game, and not the initial onset of the pandemic when nobody knew what this virus was capable of.

Let's just agree that the role of restrictions has played out by now, or at least become secondary as a measure.
The thing right now is vaccinations, and getting as many people as possible to get them.
Restrictions were a very useful tool for saving lives when we didn't have any vaccines, or currently, if too many people refuse to receive them.

@The_Phantom_Stranger
Yes, I noticed that.

Edited November 10, 2021 by zep73

[aztek]

yea it pays to account for all variables and establish values for each, than compare

[aztek]

Highly-vaccinated Vermont has more COVID-19 cases than ever. Why is this happening?

Quote

 

Positive cases have been climbing in Vermont in recent weeks despite the state's having one of the highest vaccination rates against the virus in the U.S. Cases rose last year around this time as well as people spent more time indoors, but the state still enjoyed one of the lowest case rates in the country then.

Cases in Vermont have increased by about 55% over the last 14 days, according to a modeling report by Financial Regulation Commissioner Mike Pieciak. Some recent days have seen daily cases spike above 400 — the highest Vermont has seen since the beginning of the pandemic.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/highly-vaccinated-vermont-more-covid-152537112.html

[Gromdor]

11 hours ago, aztek said:

Highly-vaccinated Vermont has more COVID-19 cases than ever. Why is this happening?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/highly-vaccinated-vermont-more-covid-152537112.html

Unvaccinated Vermonters are still the people getting sick and being hospitalized at the highest rates. - From your link...

[thedutchiedutch]

So Denmark ditched its COVID rules 2 months ago but now cases are up—and restrictions are coming back.

Denmark has a fairly high vaccination rate of around three-quarters but despite that fact, the country is seeing over 3,500 new infections daily.

The number of patients admitted to Danish hospitals with Covid-19 has doubled in the last four weeks.

On Tuesday, 444 persons were in hospital with the coronavirus nationally. That is six more than Monday and the highest number since February.

85 new patients were admitted to the hospital during the last day. That total is offset by discharges, giving the overall increase of six patients.

Hospitals are now feeling the strain of the high number of admissions, which remains lower than the peak from the second wave of the virus in Denmark.
The figure exceeded 900 in early January this year.

“We have significantly fewer hospitalised than we had in December and January during the big wave,” Iversen said.

Link to Full Article & Source : https://www.thelocal.dk/20211123/denmark-again-breaks-2021-record-with-concerning-number-of-new-covid-19-cases/

[zep73]

17 minutes ago, thedutchiedutch said:

So Denmark ditched its COVID rules 2 months ago but now cases are up—and restrictions are coming back.

Denmark has a fairly high vaccination rate of around three-quarters but despite that fact, the country is seeing over 3,500 new infections daily.

The number of patients admitted to Danish hospitals with Covid-19 has doubled in the last four weeks.

On Tuesday, 444 persons were in hospital with the coronavirus nationally. That is six more than Monday and the highest number since February.

85 new patients were admitted to the hospital during the last day. That total is offset by discharges, giving the overall increase of six patients.

Hospitals are now feeling the strain of the high number of admissions, which remains lower than the peak from the second wave of the virus in Denmark.
The figure exceeded 900 in early January this year.

“We have significantly fewer hospitalised than we had in December and January during the big wave,” Iversen said.

Link to Full Article & Source : https://www.thelocal.dk/20211123/denmark-again-breaks-2021-record-with-concerning-number-of-new-covid-19-cases/

Yes, this new wave is primarily driven by unvaccinated school children in the capitol area. While the old virus skipped the kids, Delta does not.

The re-emerging restrictions are mainly coming to take the pressure off hospitals, who also struggle with lack of personel, influenza and RSV virus. It is not a corona crisis per se.

[thedutchiedutch]

21 minutes ago, zep73 said:

Yes, this new wave is primarily driven by unvaccinated school children in the capitol area. While the old virus skipped the kids, Delta does not.

The re-emerging restrictions are mainly coming to take the pressure off hospitals, who also struggle with lack of personel, influenza and RSV virus. It is not a corona crisis per se.

I see. Stay healthy brother

[Gummug]

On 11/11/2021 at 8:30 AM, aztek said:

Highly-vaccinated Vermont has more COVID-19 cases than ever. Why is this happening?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/highly-vaccinated-vermont-more-covid-152537112.html

Could a possibility be the new mRNA technology in the vaccines weakens the immune system, or alters it in a way to make people more susceptible to variants?

[Duke Wellington]

On 9/11/2021 at 6:14 PM, zep73 said:

https://www.theguardian.com/weather/2021/sep/10/denmark-lifts-all-covid-restrictions-as-vaccinations-top-80-per-cent

There is one population of people that got their entire people past coronavirus 3 months after it started.

The Quakers. They didnt experience a catastrophic loss of life.

[psyche101]

4 minutes ago, Gummug said:

Could a possibility be the new mRNA technology in the vaccines weakens the immune system, or alters it in a way to make people more susceptible to variants?

No, and not all the covid vaccines are mRNA based.

[zep73]

53 minutes ago, Cookie Monster said:

There is one population of people that got their entire people past coronavirus 3 months after it started.

The Quakers. They didnt experience a catastrophic loss of life.

What catastrophic loss of life? Covid isn't a killer disease, it's a health service disaster.

[Gummug]

7 hours ago, psyche101 said:

No, and not all the covid vaccines are mRNA based.

Okay I thought they were...

[Gromdor]

9 hours ago, Gummug said:

Could a possibility be the new mRNA technology in the vaccines weakens the immune system, or alters it in a way to make people more susceptible to variants?

No, the bulk of the cases are in the unvaccinated populace according to the article.  If it weakened the immune system the numbers would be in the vaccinated portion.  

[psyche101]

14 hours ago, Gummug said:

Okay I thought they were...

It's a common mistake. Phizer is, Astra Zenica is not. AZ is more of a traditional based vaccine.