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Woodward/Costa book: Worried Trump could 'go rogue,' Milley took secret action to protect nuclear we


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42 minutes ago, Autochthon1990 said:

Have you ever lived with someone who is frighteningly, utterly, completely, insane? Someone completely divorced from reality, tied to it only by loose strings of thought that are mere parodies of what is real? I have. 

Yes, for the last 8 months I have as everyone else has.

There's...not a lot you can write off for people who are that down the rabbit hole.

True, you are a lost cause.

Their actions are unpredictable, malice may or may not be involved, sometimes it isn't, but with Trump that was a key component of it.

I suspect that you had malice toward Trump and this nation.  TDS is definitely a key.

I would put very, very, VERY little beyond that man, and you should be on the same page given...yknow, the Coup. 

You can sit there with a straight face and ignore the current Resident?  That is long gone…  Trump had more cognitive ability in his little finger than Bidet has in his whole body.  How do you like those rising prices?  I guess you don’t care and mommy still takes care of the bills.

 

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36 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

How does this fit with the Constitution's definition of treason?

Seriously?  We need Constitution 101?

 

Let’s see, in Article II, Section 1, Clause 1 (hey, right at the top there), it says

 

“The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America.”

 

Executive power with advice from the Senate to make treaties and as Commander-in-chief will be vested into the President.  By going behind his back, you are committing treason and in this case, it could be considered in a time of war.

 

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5 hours ago, Doug1066 said:

There have been a number of people, including two Soviets, who have taken independent action to prevent a nuclear launch, thereby saving countless lives.  Their superior officers didn't like it, but in most cases have grudgingly acknowledged that they did the right thing.

The same deactivation of the nuclear launch codes was done back in the Nixon administration, too.  If subordinates keep having to intercede in the launch sequence to prevent a nuclear holocaust, then there's something wrong with the system.

Doug

Nobody deactivated the nuclear codes, and trump didn't tell anyone to launch nukes..  Doug, start reading the articles.  

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1 hour ago, RavenHawk said:

Again, Even after 8 months of failure, and people are still pushing this crap!  This is a true sign of TDS.  Only those with TDS thought that Trump was going to nuke someone.  The rest of us knew better.  In his four years, he's proved you wrong.  Now we have a weak piece of crap that will get himself caught in a corner and his only option will be to launch nukes.  At least get into another unnecessary war.  This Resident has destroyed much of what this country once was.  The question is how will he top what he's done?  Stay tuned.

And when he does get us in a war watch the TDS crowd justify it as a good or unavoidable war. 

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1 hour ago, Tatetopa said:

As far as I can tell from the reports, they did no more than  monitor Trump, they did not countermand any orders or prevent him from carrying out his appointed duties.

He gave subordinates an order not to obey the CIC's orders without running it by him first.  Clearly that is a breach of the chain of command.  

Edited by OverSword
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1 hour ago, moonman said:

Of course, absolutely no doubt. it would go from "OMG TREASON!" to "OMG THAT'S TOTALLY WARRANTED!" in a heartbeat.

It's not about countering the president, it's about countering Trump.

I disagree.  If any general tells people under biden's command to ignore his orders that general should be court martialed. 

Edited by OverSword
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17 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Nobody deactivated the nuclear codes, and trump didn't tell anyone to launch nukes..  Doug, start reading the articles.  

Nobody said Trump told anybody to launch a nuke.  Milley was afraid, with good reason, that he might try.  That's enough to take precautions.

Why don't you try reading the post?

Doug

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3 minutes ago, Doug1066 said:

Nobody said Trump told anybody to launch a nuke.  Milley was afraid, with good reason, that he might try.  That's enough to take precautions.

Well that’s the key isn’t it?  Milley had *NO* good reason to do this.  This was a Progressive ploy to establish plausible deniability and dirt on the Right.  That’s all they do.  They conspire to seize power.  And they disguise their actions as noble when it is they that is corrupting and usurping the Constitution.  The next Republican President will need to really clean house.  That President will need to take precautions and everybody above O7 or GS10 gets fired.

 

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9 minutes ago, Doug1066 said:

Milley was afraid, with good reason

With good reason?  What was the good reason?  At no time throughout his presidency was I concerned about that.  During Bush and Obama, not so much.

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26 minutes ago, OverSword said:

He gave subordinates an order not to obey the CIC's orders without running it by him first.  Clearly that is a breach of the chain of command.  

He actually had every right to do that according to his oath of office. No orders from the President were disobeyed, so no treason was committed. The reason US Military officers do not swear and oath to the President is for the purpose of checks and balances, their oath is sworn to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic;

At the time this was done the President was in complete meltdown mode, he had lost the Election and was not acting in a reasonable manner.

Below is the entire oath of office that all Officer swear when they are commissioned:

""I, [name], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.""

https://www.army.mil/values/officers.html

 

 

Edited by Manwon Lender
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Just now, Manwon Lender said:

He actually had every right to do that according to his oath of office. No orders from the President were disobeyed, so no treason was committed

who said treason? Not I.  He undermined the chain of command.  that is a no-no.  Guarantee he did not do that regardless.  He's just trying to set himself up for a political career as a democrap

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2 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

He actually had every right to do that according to his oath of office. No orders from the President were disobeyed, so no treason was committed. The reason US Military officers do not swear and oath to the President is for the purpose of checks and balances, their oath is sworn to support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic;

Correct, no orders were disobeyed – yet.  Firstly, that is setting up a false flag as there was at no time a situation needing Milley to act accordingly.  And two, he did violate his oath to the Constitution as the Constitution vests all executive power in the President, therefore, by doing an end run, usurps the President’s power and violates his oath.  It’s that simple.

 

At the time this was done the President was in complete meltdown mode, he had lost the Election and was not acting in a reasonable manner.

Really?  He had no meltdown.  That was your wet dreams.  He was obviously pi$$-ed because he knew what had happened.  The evidence is there that cheating occurred but those that are in power are the ones that cheated.  The Deep State is just too dangerous and must be decimated.  If Trump gets back, I have a feeling that he will wage war on the Deep State.

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7 minutes ago, OverSword said:

who said treason? Not I.  He undermined the chain of command.  that is a no-no.  Guarantee he did not do that regardless.  He's just trying to set himself up for a political career as a democrap

No you didn't say Treason another member did. But, no he did not undermined anything he was only doing his job according to his oath of office. As far as his political aspirations you may be correct, only time will tell. Whether he did it or not isn't important actually the fact that he could do is not illegal. Since he is the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, any orders for a Nuclear Strike would have to through him before being sent to a launch site.

If for some reason those orders circumvented him that would be a violation of the Constitution, and if he felt that do to the circumstances that could happen he had every right to tell his subordinates to contact him before any orders were carried out. I am not trying to argue with you, I am only pointing out the checks and balances that are in place. This is why Officers swear their oath to up hold the Constitution and not to follow the orders of the President.

In reality these checks and balances are a good idea because it is designed to stop a rogue President for disregarding the Constitution, and I am not applying these comments to Trump, I mean them in a general sense only.

 

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23 hours ago, lightly said:

I think Milley was prudent to take such an action, because trump is mentally unstable.

Agreed. The guy should get a medal :)

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47 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

Seriously?  We need Constitution 101?

 

Article III Section 3 Clause 1

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

You can call it something else if you want, but not treason.

 

Article I, Section 8, Clause 11:

[The Congress shall have Power . . . ] To declare War, grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal, and make Rules concerning Captures on Land and Water; . . .

Most people would consider launching nuclear missiles an act of war.  One could strongly argue that the President cannot unilaterally decide to launch nuclear missiles without a declaration of war by Congress.   If the President upholds the Constitution of the United States, there is no conflict.  If by reason of mental incapacity or PTSD he cannot, then his staff assists him in his dutiy.

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2 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

Correct, no orders were disobeyed – yet.  Firstly, that is setting up a false flag as there was at no time a situation needing Milley to act accordingly.  And two, he did violate his oath to the Constitution as the Constitution vests all executive power in the President, therefore, by doing an end run, usurps the President’s power and violates his oath.  It’s that simple.

 

 

Really?  He had no meltdown.  That was your wet dreams.  He was obviously pi$$-ed because he knew what had happened.  The evidence is there that cheating occurred but those that are in power are the ones that cheated.  The Deep State is just too dangerous and must be decimated.  If Trump gets back, I have a feeling that he will wage war on the Deep State.

Please apply you comments to the discuss and do not direct them at me. My comments that were posted are valid, with no hyperbole, and no he didn't violate any part of his oath of office. His oath does not make him swear obedience to the President only the Constitution. This is designed as a safe guard so that a President can't  use our Militarty forces in a manner that circumvents the Constitution. If you can see that then do a little research and it will become clear.

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Trump is and was clearly unstable. If you don't see that, you are in denial. General Milley did the best he could in my opinion and is in my eyes a hero.

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17 minutes ago, RavenHawk said:

Really?  He had no meltdown.  That was your wet dreams.  He was obviously pi$$-ed because he knew what had happened.  The evidence is there that cheating occurred but those that are in power are the ones that cheated.  The Deep State is just too dangerous and must be decimated.  If Trump gets back, I have a feeling that he will wage war on the Deep State.

You say that from a distance.  People who knew him and worked closely with him in the Cabinet and his staff apparently thought he was off his nut.  No evidence of cheating stood up to courtroom scrutiny.

Go after the deep state?  What do you mean by that?  Do you mean replace anybody that swears an oath to uphold the Constitution of the United States and does not pledge a personal  oath of loyalty to Donald Trump to do what he says without thinking or caring what it does to the nation?

 

Edited by Tatetopa
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16 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

But, no he did not undermined anything he was only doing his job according to his oath of office.

No.  You were in the military, if I remember right?  What would have happened if you were a sergeant and told told a corporal not to perform an order from a lieutenant until he cleared it with you first?  Your TDS is blocking you from seeing that undermining the chain of command is an offense.  He should be tried in a court martial if he really did that.  I don't believe he did.  I think Milley is a liar.

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3 minutes ago, OverSword said:

No.  You were in the military, if I remember right?  What would have happened if you were a sergeant and told told a corporal not to perform an order from a lieutenant until he cleared it with you first?  Your TDS is blocking you from seeing that undermining the chain of command is an offense.  He should be tried in a court martial if he really did that.  I don't believe he did.  I think Milley is a liar.

Yes I was in the Military, if there was situation where that Lieutenant was endangering personnel or over stepping his authority I could legally give those instructions to my subordinate. To follow an order that is illegal, puts you and all others under you in a position for punishment under the UCMJ. You see US Soldiers are trained to think and if necessary not to follow illegal orders and this is not undermining the Chain of Command it's just another Check and Ballance. 

Please stop with the TDS stuff, your far to intelligent to rely on such nonsense my friend. Everything I have said in this thread today is according Military Regulations and these checks and balances are at all levels of the Chain of Command and they are designed to stop illegal orders that are in violation of the UCMJ and the Constitution. Like I said before I have no idea if Miley did this or not, but if he did he didn't violate anything and his instructions were perfectly legal. 

Unlike some others here, I am speaking from experience and if you don't believe me check out what I have said I think you will be surprised to find out I am correct. 

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6 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Yes I was in the Military, if there was situation where that Lieutenant was endangering personnel or over stepping his authority I could legally give those instructions to my subordinate. To follow an order that is illegal, puts you and all others under you in a position for punishment under the UCMJ. You see US Soldiers are trained to think and if necessary not to follow illegal orders and this is not undermining the Chain of Command it's just another Check and Ballance. 

Please stop with the TDS stuff, your far to intelligent to rely on such nonsense my friend. Everything I have said in this thread today is according Military Regulations and these checks and balances are at all levels of the Chain of Command and they are designed to stop illegal orders that are in violation of the UCMJ and the Constitution. Like I said before I have no idea if Miley did this or not, but if he did he didn't violate anything and his instructions were perfectly legal. 

Unlike some others here, I am speaking from experience and if you don't believe me check out what I have said I think you will be surprised to find out I am correct. 

You could only do that if there was an illegal order.  It is clear if you read the article there was not.  You can not tell them to check with me to see if that is a legal order.  That is ridiculous :rolleyes:.  When that Captain told that private to jump he better do it, unless he tells him to jump in a tank and kill a child with the gun.  

TDS.  You and many others suffer from it.  

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1 hour ago, RavenHawk said:

Well that’s the key isn’t it?  Milley had *NO* good reason to do this.  This was a Progressive ploy to establish plausible deniability and dirt on the Right.  That’s all they do.  They conspire to seize power.  And they disguise their actions as noble when it is they that is corrupting and usurping the Constitution.  The next Republican President will need to really clean house.  That President will need to take precautions and everybody above O7 or GS10 gets fired.

 

I don't know who the next Republican President will be, but ever since Eisenhower, each successive one has been worse than the last.  Run a good candidate and I'll vote for them, but these incompetent jokers you've been running have done serious damage to the country.

Doug

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5 minutes ago, OverSword said:

You could only do that if there was an illegal order.  It is clear if you read the article there was not.  You can not tell them to check with me to see if that is a legal order.  That is ridiculous :rolleyes:.  When that Captain told that private to jump he better do it, unless he tells him to jump in a tank and kill a child with the gun.  

TDS.  You and many others suffer from it.  

It's impossible to have a serious discussion when others in the discussion do not understand what the actual laws, regulations, and checks and balances are. You have no idea how the Military works, and neither does anyone else who is posting here currently. I have read the article and I fully understand what is being discussed here, I have asked you to research my comments if you think I am wrong, you choose not to do that obviously because you don't really care. Now that's ok but, I have remained respectful throughout this conversation, but I will not continue to present facts when you are basing you points upon opinions, I learned long ago to never waste my time discussing opinions.

Peace Dude. 

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1 hour ago, OverSword said:

With good reason?  What was the good reason?  At no time throughout his presidency was I concerned about that.  During Bush and Obama, not so much.

Trump has vested a great deal of his identity in always being a winner.  In 2020 he was about the biggest loser anyone can imagine.  The voters flat-out fired him.  The depression that set in came with a departure from reality which is still with him - he thinks he won the election.  With that hallucination rattling around in his head, there is plenty  to worry about.  That you weren't worried says more about you than it does about him.

Doug

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