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Woodward/Costa book: Worried Trump could 'go rogue,' Milley took secret action to protect nuclear we

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F3SS
4 hours ago, Manwon Lender said:

Come on my friend, all is fare in Politics and during Capitol Insurrections isn't it!:D

Not in this situation. These are heavy accusations with serious ramifications using this language as proof of instigation. 

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Manwon Lender
5 hours ago, OverSword said:

They used pictures of entire Kurdish villages murdered to help convince us that we needed to attack Iraq incase Kuwait was not enough.  
 

They used Kurds again a decade later to convince us they were using WMD’s against the local Christians. The Kurds have been a very convenient tool for the USA

The Kurds were not a tool during the Gulf War, the only reason the US went to the Middle East was to Liberate Kuwait. Please trust me the Kurds were not evolved in anyway 1990-1991 which was called the Gulf War. Now I believe you confusing the Gulf War with the Invasion of Iraq in 2003, and the main claim then was that Iraq was hiding WMD and sponsoring terrorism.

I don't remember if they used the Kurds as an excuse for the 2003 invasion or not but the Iraqi Kurds did support our War effort, and now they have a safe zone in Iraq.  But in 1991 the Kurds did rise up in support for the liberation of Kuwait, and when US forces pulled back to Saudi Arabi after Kuwait was liberated, President Bush didn't help them when Sadam rolled tanks into Kurdishstan and they were massacred. 

However, during the Gulf War 1990-1991 the Kurds were not fighting side by side with the US, their uprising against the Iraqis was done by their own choice. It easy to confuse the Wars with Iraq, and I believe that what you have said was done unintentionally.

https://www.npr.org/2019/10/10/769044811/a-look-at-the-history-of-the-u-s-alliance-with-the-kurds

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OverSword
12 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

The Kurds were not a tool during the Gulf War, the only reason the US went to the Middle East was to Liberate Kuwait. Please trust me the Kurds were not evolved in anyway 1990-1991

The were used as CNN propaganda.  That was the first time I had ever heard of them.  They were used a third time to make trump look like he was abandoning people in Syria.  

Edited by OverSword
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Manwon Lender
5 minutes ago, OverSword said:

The were used as CNN propaganda.  That was the first time I had ever heard of them.  They were used a third time to make trump look like he was abandoning people in Syria.  

In Syria my friend they fought side by side with the US Military they also helped and supported our fight to destroy ISIS. During my trips to Syria as a Contractor, I always had a Kurdish interpreter when I was working in the Villages along with US and Kurdish security. The Kurds have supported the US in every Middle Eastern conflict except the original Gulf War. Now when Trump pulled US Forces out of Syria he abandon the Kurds, in fact after all they had done, and after many died keeping US Soliders and Contractors alive Trump Just abandoned them.

When the US pulled back to leave, Trump had made a deal with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan to occupy the US Zone in Syria so that he could attack the Kurds. Turkey then attacked targeted and Massacred the Kurds, and I don't care if you believe it or not that's what occurred to our Allies ( Kurds in Syria ).  I don't know if you realize it but the Kurds are equal in ever way to the Afghans that served US Military interests in Afghanistan, and many of whom were also abandoned by Biden. The US has a very screwed up policy of abandoning people who support the US during armed conflicts, and that is very very sad along with sending a message to the world we can't be trusted. 

To my knowledge and in my opinion the Kurds have never been used as Propaganda, I have personally worked with them in Iraq and Syria and honestly I would not put my life in the hands of any other indigenous people in any country in the Middle East.  They have been loyal to the US cause in the Middle East, and saved many American lives, however every US Administration has screwed them in the end including Trumps. 

https://apnews.com/article/middle-east-syria-ap-top-news-politics-international-news-1517087f2d3b4f6685fc9802bce370e6

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OverSword
52 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

In Syria my friend they fought side by side with the US Military they also helped and supported our fight to destroy ISIS. During my trips to Syria as a Contractor, I always had a Kurdish interpreter when I was working in the Villages along with US and Kurdish security.  

Changes nothing about what I said.  I don't know why you've picked this knit.

Quote

To my knowledge and in my opinion the Kurds have never been used as Propaganda

That's ridiculous.

Edited by OverSword
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Manwon Lender
3 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Changes nothing about what I said.  I don't know why you've picked this knit.

Now you know.

You know I was trying to carry on a respectfully conversation with you, but you want to push a false and inaccurate narrative for whatever reason. So I think it's time you back up you claims with proof, post a reputable source that proves what your saying, if you can't then what you said changes nothing, will change everything. 

I will wait for your source!

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OverSword
44 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

You know I was trying to carry on a respectfully conversation with you, but you want to push a false and inaccurate narrative for whatever reason. So I think it's time you back up you claims with proof, post a reputable source that proves what your saying, if you can't then what you said changes nothing, will change everything. 

I will wait for your source!

Let me make it easy to understand.  When we pulled out of Syria a huge anti-trump propaganda campaign began based on us abandoning the Kurds to make the move to get out look thoughtless and cruel.  You say you've never been aware of the Kurdish people being used for propaganda.  Do you understand what propaganda is?

 
Quote

 

prop·a·gan·da
/ˌpräpəˈɡandə/
noun
1.
information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.

 

I am not being disrespectful to you, you are being willfully ignorant for the purpose of arguing with me and I am obliging you.  Don't get butt hurt.  If you trace our conversation back to the beginning you butted into comments between Tatetopa and I.  I didn't go after something you said, you went after me.
Edited by OverSword
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OverSword

Just in case there is more dumb-ass-ery about Kurds used for propaganda in the gulf war era. 

Quote

 

Kurdistan was erased from the world's maps after World War I when the Allied Powers carved up the Middle East and denied the Kurds a nation-state. More than twenty million Kurds live in parts of Iran, Iraq, Turkey and Syria. Throughout the 20th century their struggles for political and cultural autonomy were opposed by the region's countries and the Kurds were often used as pawns in regional politics.

The Kurds' plight most recently captured the world's attention in 1991 following the end of the Gulf War. Television around the world showed images of northern Iraq's Kurds fleeing Saddam Hussein's Iraq through the mountains of Turkey and Iran. Since the 1920s, negotiations between Iraq's Kurds and the government in Baghdad have always broken down over issues of Kurdish independence, and the Kurds' wish to control the oil-rich city of Kirkuk and to have their own militia.

In America's dealings with Saddam Hussein and Iraq, Iraq's Kurds have been a tragic side show. For decades, they looked to the U.S. for support in their struggle against Saddam's government. Washington's response has been classic realpolitik - using the Kurds when it wanted to hurt Saddam and then dropping them when their usefulness had run out.

 

Link

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Manwon Lender
41 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Let me make it easy to understand.  When we pulled out of Syria a huge anti-trump propaganda campaign began based on us abandoning the Kurds to make the move to get out look thoughtless and cruel.  You say you've never been aware of the Kurdish people being used for propaganda.  Do you understand what propaganda is?

 
I am not being disrespectful to you, you are being willfully ignorant for the purpose of arguing with me and I am obliging you.  Don't get butt hurt.  If you trace our conversation back to the beginning you butted into comments between Tatetopa and I.  I didn't go after something you said, you went after me.

First thanks for the link it says the same thing that the link I posted said, and it's doesn't back up your comments. Second I didn't go after you I only pointed out your comments were inaccurate, which they were. Third I have the right to respond to any comments or posts made in any thread on this site, so as you put it I Butted into nothing. Fourth, the only reason I responded was because your comments were completely inaccurate. Maybe when I mentioned being disrespectful, I used the wrong word I should have just said your comment were totally inaccurate. 

Now your the only one here resorting to name calling, which is a normal response when people refuse to admit they were incorrect. So thanks for the conversation, I can see there is no need to continue it any longer because you have proven my point completely and you don't even realize it. 

 

Edited by Manwon Lender
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OverSword
8 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

First thanks for the link it says the same thing that the link I posted said, and it's doesn't back up your comments. Second I didn't go after you I only pointed out your comments were inaccurate, which they were. Third I have the right to respond to any comments or posts made in any thread on this site, so as you put it I Butted into nothing. Fourth, the only reason I responded was because your comments were completely inaccurate. Maybe when I mentioned being disrespectful, I used the wrong word I should have just said your comment were totally inaccurate. 

Now your the only one here resorting to name calling, which is a normal response when people refuse to admit they were incorrect. So thanks for the conversation, I can see there is no need to continue it any longer because you have proven my point completely and you don't even realize it. 

 

So you say when I remember dead villages full of Kurds on CNN  in Operation Desert Shield and Storm I'm lying.  Alright.  We never heard of them until Syria. :rolleyes:  Done with you.

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Manwon Lender
34 minutes ago, OverSword said:

So you say when I remember dead villages full of Kurds on CNN  in Operation Desert Shield and Storm I'm lying.  Alright.  We never heard of them until Syria. :rolleyes:  Done with you.

Here again you are intentionally making inaccurate claims, and putting words in my mouth that I never said. As far as the Gulf War is concerned I will quote your comments from a previous post ""They used pictures of entire Kurdish villages murdered to help convince us that we needed to attack Iraq incase Kuwait was not enough."" the photos of the Kurds that were killed occurred after the ceasefire ( end of the Gulf War ) were taken during the Kurdish and Shia uprising in March 1991. 

This was a separate uprising and it had nothing to do with why the US went to Iraq, in fact when Sadam attacked the Kurds the US Soldiers were already moving back into Saudi Arabia the only reason we were involved in the Gulf War War was to liberate Kuwait, so yes it appears you are making false claims.

Below are quotes from the BBC.

""Two days after the liberation of Kuwait, the then US President, George Bush made a statement to the Iraqi population, "In my own view… the Iraqi people should put Saddam aside, and that would facilitate the resolution of all these problems that exist and certainly would facilitate the acceptance of Iraq back into the family of peace-loving nations.""

""Thus emboldened, in early March, the Shia in southern Iraq, and the Kurds in the north, made almost simultaneous uprisings against the regime.""  https://www.bbc.com/news/in-pictures-35967389

The Kurds and the US did not fight together during the Gulf War at any time, so your comments are false.

 

Edited by Manwon Lender
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OverSword
19 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

Here again you are intentionally making inaccurate claims, and putting words in my mouth that I never said. As far as the Gulf War is concerned I will quote your comments from a previous post ""They used pictures of entire Kurdish villages murdered to help convince us that we needed to attack Iraq incase Kuwait was not enough."" the photos of the Kurds that were killed occurred after the ceasefire ( end of the Gulf War ) were taken during the Kurdish and Shia uprising in March 1991. 

This was a separate uprising and it had nothing to do with why the US went to Iraq, in fact when Sadam attacked the Kurds the US Soldiers were already moving back into Saudi Arabia the only reason we were involved in the Gulf War War was to liberate Kuwait, so yes it appears you are making false claims.

Below are quotes from the BBC.

""Two days after the liberation of Kuwait, the then US President, George Bush made a statement to the Iraqi population, "In my own view… the Iraqi people should put Saddam aside, and that would facilitate the resolution of all these problems that exist and certainly would facilitate the acceptance of Iraq back into the family of peace-loving nations.""

""Thus emboldened, in early March, the Shia in southern Iraq, and the Kurds in the north, made almost simultaneous uprisings against the regime.""  https://www.bbc.com/news/in-pictures-35967389

The Kurds and the US did not fight together during the Gulf War at any time, so your comments are false.

 

You are right it was 29 years and not 30 years ago, and they were being used as propaganda that GHWB didn't do enough by simply getting Iraq out of Kuwait.  Unless you still don't believe that we have used the Kurds for propaganda for decades and don't really give two ****s about them.  

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Manwon Lender
13 minutes ago, OverSword said:

You are right it was 29 years and not 30 years ago, and they were being used as propaganda that GHWB didn't do enough by simply getting Iraq out of Kuwait.  Unless you still don't believe that we have used the Kurds for propaganda for decades and don't really give two ****s about them.  

No we have not used them for propaganda, but we have used them to fight and die for the United States on many occasions and screwed them everytime. It's really sad because they are the only people in the Middle East who were ever loyal to us, and every US Administration has failed them. Like I said, I have worked with these people and they are the only people I would ever trust by my side. But, now I doubt the US will ever be able to rely on them again, and .i certainly don't blame them at all for that.

Using them for propaganda and using them to fight and die for us and then betraying them are two different things. I have never seen them used as a source of Propaganda, maybe I missed that. Post a link that clearly show their only purpose was propaganda or that we even used them for that purpose and I will admit I am wrong if you can't this conversation is mute.

Edited by Manwon Lender
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