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L.A.T.1961

Biden announces joint deal with U.K. and Australia to counter China

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L.A.T.1961

All three countries will work over the next 18 months to figure out how best to deliver the technology, which the U.S. traditionally has only shared with the U.K., the official said

Canberra will abandon a $90 billion submarine deal with France and will instead acquire American-made nuclear-powered submarines, with help from the U.K.

Pentagon officials have already started working with Congress to try and smooth the path for more industrial cooperation with Australia and the U.K., a process that could take some time as U.S.-based defense companies and members of Congress will likely tread carefully about sharing technology, and potentially offshoring some jobs.

"We're working with Congress to make sure that we have that authority to invest in Australia and the U.K.," Jesse Salazar, the Pentagon’s deputy assistant secretary for industrial policy, said at an event at George Mason University on Wednesday.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/09/15/biden-deal-uk-australia-defense-tech-sharing-511877

https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/International-relations/Biden-s-Asia-policy/U.S.-Australia-and-U.K-form-new-security-partnership-with-eye-on-China

https://news.usni.org/2021/09/15/australia-to-pursue-nuclear-attack-subs-in-new-agreement-with-u-s-u-k

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Tatetopa

Another move in the long game to counteract China?

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OverSword

I wonder how buying a submarine from America with help from England rather than buying one from France undermines China?  I mean if they were making a deal to develop and manufacture 6G equipment and get it on the market before China then I could see it as undermining China.

 

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third_eye

Swamp up the billabong... 

- Almost Australian saying

 

~

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Sir Wearer of Hats
11 minutes ago, third_eye said:

Swamp up the billabong... 

- Almost Australian saying

 

~

Mate, you’re not sticking your swamp anywhere near my billabong!

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third_eye
1 hour ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

Mate, you’re not sticking your swamp anywhere near my billabong!

Where ya gonna park the subby then mate? 

~

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L.A.T.1961
14 hours ago, Tatetopa said:

Another move in the long game to counteract China?

Yes, although China was not specifically mentioned its quite obvious what's going on.

China is very upset this morning -

China on Thursday condemned the U.S., U.K. and Australia’s move to join a security partnership, saying it is “severely damaging region peace.”

The partnership is "severely damaging regional peace and stability, intensifying an arms race, and damaging international nuclear nonproliferation efforts,” Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian said Thursday, according to Reuters. 

https://thehill.com/policy/international/china/572535-china-us-uk-australia-severely-damaging-regional-peace-with

 

Although in the shorter term this move has a bigger affect in France and across Europe with the loss of a 90 billion sub supply deal.  -

'Acted Like Trump': France Accuses Joe Biden of Sabotaging Australia Defence Deal

Paris: France accused US President Joe Biden on Thursday of stabbing them in the back and acting like his predecessor Donald Trump after Paris was pushed aside from a lucrative defence deal that they had signed with Australia for submarines.

“This brutal, unilateral and unpredictable decision reminds me a lot of what Mr Trump used to do,” Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian told franceinfo radio. “I am angry and bitter. This isn’t done between allies.”

https://thewire.in/world/acted-like-trump-france-accuses-joe-biden-of-sabotaging-australia-defence-deal

 

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L.A.T.1961
15 hours ago, OverSword said:

I wonder how buying a submarine from America with help from England rather than buying one from France undermines China?  I mean if they were making a deal to develop and manufacture 6G equipment and get it on the market before China then I could see it as undermining China.

 

The French designed boats were diesel electric which are less stealthy and have less range than a nuclear sub.

Nuclear subs are more able to track China's navy without detection.

The US has only ever shared tech with the UK previously but they have decided to give Australia access to the same nuclear power designs and systems they share. It will also include maintenance and upgrade facilities going forward. 

The US and UK have said this is a one off so no other nations will get the same offer.

 

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L.A.T.1961

Biden shuns EU with Asia-Pacific power play

It was the worst possible day for the EU — and its defense heavyweight France — to learn that they're not in the geostrategic big league when it comes to countering China's rise in the Asia-Pacific region.

Only hours before EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell was due to unveil Europe's own woolly Indo-Pacific strategy on Thursday, he was outplayed in a hard-power move by America, Britain and Australia. The three countries announced a landmark pact that would allow cooperation on top military technology and allow Canberra to build nuclear-powered submarines.

It was doubly infuriating for the EU camp that Brexit Britain was the only European ally invited to the top table.

https://www.politico.eu/article/biden-eu-asia-pacific-france-china-power-play/

 

 

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Golden Duck
2 hours ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

The French designed boats were diesel electric which are less stealthy and have less range than a nuclear sub.

Nuclear subs are more able to track China's navy without detection.

The US has only ever shared tech with the UK previously but they have decided to give Australia access to the same nuclear power designs and systems they share. It will also include maintenance and upgrade facilities going forward. 

The US and UK have said this is a one off so no other nations will get the same offer.

 

Australia rejected the nuclear powered Barracuda Class submarine.  Australia chose the diesel option again, after a history of rejecting nuclear.

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L.A.T.1961

Update - 

Jilted France cancels events over lost submarine deal.

French embassy in Washington canceled in protest a reception it was hosting to mark a military victory 240 years ago.

PARIS — Apoplectic. Blindsided. Jilted.

Paris was a swirl of enraged adjectives Thursday, after Australia, the U.S. and the U.K announced they were coming together in a trilateral strategic partnership that stole away a multibillion-euro submarine contract Paris had signed with Canberra.

Rarely have French officials been so acerbic in their statements, toward an ally or a foe. For them, the U.S. under President Joe Biden is still Trumpian, Australia is disloyal and untrustworthy, and the U.K. so scorned as to not even be worth mentioning.

https://www.politico.eu/article/jilted-france-fumes-and-takes-some-retaliatory-measures/

 

Dutch leader Mark Rutte will invite Britain to join security deal with EU.

Boris Johnson will be offered a pact with the European Union on defence and security co-operation today during a meeting in Downing Street with Mark Rutte, the Dutch prime minister.

Johnson turned down negotiations on defence last year.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/dutch-leader-mark-rutte-will-invite-britain-to-join-deal-with-eu-rp9c05bnl

 

Aukus is a disaster for the EU.

It is hard to overstate the importance of the so-called Aukus alliance between the US, the UK and Australia — and the implicit geopolitical disaster for the EU.

The alliance is the culmination of multiple European failures: naivety at the highest level of the EU about US foreign policy; Brussels’s political misjudgments of Joe Biden and his China strategy; compulsive obsession with Donald Trump; and the attempt to corner Theresa May during the Brexit talks. If you treat the UK as a strategic adversary, don’t be surprised when the UK exploits the areas where it enjoys a competitive advantage.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/aukus-is-a-sign-of-eu-impotence

 

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OverSword

China says Australia now an adversary and to prepare for the worst.  French embassy cancels Gala to celebrate close ties between the USA and France :tu:  

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L.A.T.1961

Apparently the EU defense deal to be offered to UK by the Dutch PM has been torpedoed  :o 

IT must have risked looking a bit too needy after the EU was excluded from the trilateral U.S.-U.K-Australia loop. ;)

 

Dutch PM not proposing new EU-UK security deal, EU says.

Media reports of a possible security agreement between the European Union and Britain to be offered by Dutch Prime Minister Mark Rutte are untrue, the European Commission said on Friday.

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/eu-commission-denies-reports-dutch-uk-security-deal-with-eu-2021-09-17/?rpc=401&

 

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L.A.T.1961

This must be unprecedented between allies. France is throwing all the toys out of the pram. 

 

France Recalls Its Ambassadors to the U.S., Australia in Submarine Deal Backlash.

Paris (AP) -- France recalls its ambassadors to the U.S. and Australia in submarine deal backlash, French foreign minister says.

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210917-france-recalls-its-ambassadors-to-us-and-australia-in-submarine-deal-backlash

 

No mention of the UK yet.

 

Edited by L.A.T.1961
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L.A.T.1961

I didn't take long - 

Britain acted in opportunistic manner over U.S.-Australia deal -French source.

PARIS, Sept 17 (Reuters) - The United Kingdom acted in an opportunistic manner in the deal struck between the United States and Australia which ended a $40 billion submarine contract deal between Canberra and Paris, a French diplomatic source said on Friday.

https://www.reuters.com/world/britain-acted-opportunistic-manner-over-us-australia-deal-french-source-2021-09-17/?rpc=401&

 

But we still have a French ambassador.  

 

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spartan max2

I don't really see why France is that upset. 

It looks like Australia just decided to choose a different military contract.

It seems pragmatic that the US and Australia would focus on closer relations as a defense against China. 

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L.A.T.1961
2 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

I don't really see why France is that upset. 

It looks like Australia just decided to choose a different military contract.

It seems pragmatic that the US and Australia would focus on closer relations as a defense against China. 

Politically it does not look good for France to be shown as expendable and not notified about the new arrangement.

I think the French response is also about salvaging the situation and hoping to be included in the AUKUS deal in the future and through that a new contract providing parts for the new Aus sub?

But France calling Joe a Trump copy is not likely to win friends in the US. 

And with France tying a financial services deal to fish and threatening to cut off Jersey power supply Ect it is also running on empty with the UK gov. ;)

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Setton
7 minutes ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

I think the French response is also about salvaging the situation and hoping to be included in the AUKUS deal in the future and through that a new contract providing parts for the new Aus sub?

Sorry but we cannot have a defence pact called FAUKUS...

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Wepwawet

This gets interesting. "France to immediately recall it's embassadors to the US and Australia" says France 24 https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210917-france-recalls-its-ambassadors-to-us-and-australia-in-submarine-deal-backlash

Maybe the French have remembered about being depicted as "Cheese eating surrender monkeys" and have had enough.

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L.A.T.1961
23 minutes ago, Wepwawet said:

This gets interesting. "France to immediately recall it's embassadors to the US and Australia" says France 24 https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210917-france-recalls-its-ambassadors-to-us-and-australia-in-submarine-deal-backlash

Maybe the French have remembered about being depicted as "Cheese eating surrender monkeys" and have had enough.

It is being compared to Trafalgar in France although in this case they had lost even before the battle started.

 “This is a clap of thunder and for many in Paris a Trafalgar moment,” Bruno Tertrais, Deputy Director of the Paris-based think tank the Foundation of Strategic Research said on Twitter, referring to a French naval defeat in 1805 that was followed by British naval supremacy. 

https://www.euronews.com/2021/09/17/us-usa-security-biden-france

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DarkHunter
4 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

I don't really see why France is that upset. 

It looks like Australia just decided to choose a different military contract.

It seems pragmatic that the US and Australia would focus on closer relations as a defense against China. 

Considering France left NATO in 1966, they officially completely rejoined in 2009, because they refused to integrate their nuclear deterrent with the rest of NATO along with refusing to put any part of the French military under collective NATO control this isnt really that surprising.  Politically France has been overly dramatic for a very long time.

To be fair to France they did realize pretty quickly how insane leaving NATO was but due to pride refused to reverse course but did have a more or less secretive agreement that in case of any conflict breaking out with the USSR they would immediately rejoin NATO.

Edited by DarkHunter
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and then
8 hours ago, L.A.T.1961 said:

This must be unprecedented between allies. France is throwing all the toys out of the pram. 

 

France Recalls Its Ambassadors to the U.S., Australia in Submarine Deal Backlash.

Paris (AP) -- France recalls its ambassadors to the U.S. and Australia in submarine deal backlash, French foreign minister says.

https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210917-france-recalls-its-ambassadors-to-us-and-australia-in-submarine-deal-backlash

 

No mention of the UK yet.

 

Welp... at least none of the parties involved have to deal with the BOM's mean tweets.  Idiots...

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and then
8 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

I don't really see why France is that upset. 

It looks like Australia just decided to choose a different military contract.

It seems pragmatic that the US and Australia would focus on closer relations as a defense against China. 

https://www.tellerreport.com/news/2021-09-16-france-loses-mega-contract-for-submarines-with-australia.H1V0iHulXt.html

While I don't find fault with supplying OZ with this capability, I think the article above clearly gives the reason for the French to be pizzed.  Unless I'm misreading it, they had a done deal since 2016 and OZ dumped it for a better offer.  Or, put alternatively, they ditched a signed contract and left French defense industries high and dry, so to speak.

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and then

Has anyone else noticed that nearly every decision that's been made by this illegitimate administration has effectively worked to weaken our nation?  What are the odds?  We have 11 thousand migrants at the southern border and DC's FAA has closed down media drones from reporting the chaos.  Anyone who agrees with THAT little move by the current regime deserves the chains in their future.

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Sir Wearer of Hats
57 minutes ago, and then said:

https://www.tellerreport.com/news/2021-09-16-france-loses-mega-contract-for-submarines-with-australia.H1V0iHulXt.html

While I don't find fault with supplying OZ with this capability, I think the article above clearly gives the reason for the French to be pizzed.  Unless I'm misreading it, they had a done deal since 2016 and OZ dumped it for a better offer.  Or, put alternatively, they ditched a signed contract and left French defense industries high and dry, so to speak.

“Not fit for purpose” is what those French subs were. 
Now we have “submarines tomorrow in exchange for danger today”.

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