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jethrofloyd

The Flat-Earth believers number is rising

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jethrofloyd

Just come across an article about rising numbers of Flat-Earth supporters. Why are numbers of the flat-earhers rising?

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Myles
On 9/26/2021 at 6:40 AM, ThereWeAreThen said:

I think most of them are just doing it for attention, money or have something wrong with them. I've seen enough videos to convince me.

I think the attention and money ideas are valid.   I think the biggest reason is just they want to debate.   The toughest argument to win would be that the Earth is flat.   There is really no way to win that argument but if you are a person who likes a challenge it would be the ultimate challenge.  

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ThereWeAreThen
7 hours ago, Myles said:

I think the attention and money ideas are valid.   I think the biggest reason is just they want to debate.   The toughest argument to win would be that the Earth is flat.   There is really no way to win that argument but if you are a person who likes a challenge it would be the ultimate challenge.  

See where you're coming from but there is literally no arguement. They even say other planets in the solar system are spherical yet Earth is flat. Its not that they want an challenge, its just trolling or a money scam.

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Cookie Monster
16 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

There's another term for FE believers... "mostly trolls". :D 

 

But as a side comment, amongst the thousands of ways you can 'prove' the earth is round is this rather fancy one - I'd love to see a couple of FE'ers take on this fairly simple challenge and explain the results...

Requirements:
One FE believer living in the Northern hemisphere, mid latitude.  One FE believer living in the Southern hemisphere, mid latitude.  Both must have reasonably good telephoto cameras (eg HD video camcorders), and have an internet connection.

Process
Using a forum (or FB or whatever), message each other until you both have a clear night and good view of the Moon.  It should be at least half full for best results.  Set up the cameras, and at the same time, video the horizon for reference, and then pan up to the Moon.  Zoom right in - you'll need to be able to see the surface patterns (may need to adjust the exposure setting - the Moon is as bright as daylight..).

 

As an example of what will happen, here's a shot of MY moon, taken from my location at about 25 degrees south of the equator..
gallery_95887_37_23987.jpg
So what....?  Well, here's an example of a moon shot taken by someone in the northern hemisphere (from the Moon wiki):
moon.jpg.cf2bb5930e4919608954f5c12231187f.jpg
Look carefully. Notice how it is quite significantly rotated?  It is rotated by the exact number of degrees difference in latitudes...  As it has to be for two people standing at obviously different angles on the surface of our round planet.  If the earth was flat, EVERY picture of the moon would be the same angle, as every one would be standing vertically on a flat plane...  

Please explain, genuine flat earthers.

  

This is a good attempt at trying to explain to Flat Earthers that the Earth isn`t flat.

But if you put a football on one side of your room, and walk back and forth across the opposite wall, you can see different parts of the ball. So your proof will be seen as Flat Earthers that the Moon is round, not necessarily the Earth lol.

You can see a slight curvature of the Earth up a sky scraper, or rather curvature of the horizon.

Edited by Cookie Monster
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ChrLzs
1 hour ago, Cookie Monster said:

But if you put a football on one side of your room, and walk back and forth across the opposite wall, you can see different parts of the ball.

Look again at what I said.  This isn't a 'different view' from a different angle, it is ROTATED.  We are not talking about parallax.

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Cookie Monster
2 hours ago, ChrLzs said:

Look again at what I said.  This isn't a 'different view' from a different angle, it is ROTATED.  We are not talking about parallax.

But the Moon is in tidal lock with the Earth.

It isn`t rotating, it is looking at it from different angles.

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ChrLzs

Is anyone else not getting this?  Coz I'm suspecting a troll :) , and I shall stop wasting my time after this additional comment..

LOOK carefully at the craters and other features in the two moon pics I posted.  The entire moon face is rotated about its centre point.  This has nothing whatsoever to do with orbits or wobbling or tidal lock.  LOOK at where Tycho is, in the two shots - everything is rotated.  And that's because the Northern hemisphere viewer and the Southern Hemisphere viewer are standing on the round earth at different angles, like this (apologies to 'Science Alert'):
earthview2.jpg.3ab9389d16af8f23407c3a95eecc6e0a.jpg

See how the SH person is almost upside down compared to the NH person?  So, at the same moment in time, the craters and other landmarks on the Moon that are near the top for the NH viewer, will be near the bottom for the SH viewer.   On a flat earth that wouldn't happen, both views would be identical.

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Grey Area

There is a very simple way to prove a round earth that requires nothing but eyes.

At sunset on a reasonably clear day go outside and observe the sky.  If the conditions are right you will see high altitude clouds lit up by sun the while at the same time low altitude ones will be in shadow, demonstrating the sun moving beyond the curved horizon.  The same can work if you go to an airport at sundown, you can actually watch an aircraft as it gains altitude pass beyond the terminator and go from being in shadow to sunlight.

Edited by Grey Area
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Desertrat56
7 hours ago, Grey Area said:

There is a very simple way to prove a round earth that requires nothing but eyes.

At sunset on a reasonably clear day go outside and observe the sky.  If the conditions are right you will see high altitude clouds lit up by sun the while at the same time low altitude ones will be in shadow, demonstrating the sun moving beyond the curved horizon.  The same can work if you go to an airport at sundown, you can actually watch an aircraft as it gains altitude pass beyond the terminator and go from being in shadow to sunlight.

That works if you live in a place that has clouds all the time.  In the desert you need a different example.   

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Grey Area
1 hour ago, Desertrat56 said:

That works if you live in a place that has clouds all the time.  In the desert you need a different example.   

Well, when conditions are right, a little patience maybe needed.

 

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aztek

LMAO, those flat earther are geniuses, they outsmarted all of your trash talkers who think it is really about flat earth,. they created exclusive private community, and the cover story (flat earth), keeps unwanted people away. 

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ChrLzs
8 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

That works if you live in a place that has clouds all the time.  In the desert you need a different example.   

Satellites, then.  If you sky watch as I do, you'll see many satellites.. but only in the early evening and morning.  That's when the sun is just below the horizon so there are light rays passing overhead, even though your location is in darkness.  As each satellite moves into those light rays it gets brightly lit up, but then at some point they will disappear back into shadow as they move out of the sunlit region.

All of that can be predicted and worked out from scratch - the mathematics are easily and publicly accessible.  Or if you want to get involved easily, just go to Heaven's Above.  You can enter your latitude and longitude and see very precise predictions for everything that goes overhead each night.  Look for the brighter ones, eg magnitude 2 or lower (or negative) - they are the brighter ones, like the International Space Station.  You'll find it will pass overhead at a good viewing time every week or so, and it is a spectacular sight...

With a bit of practise you will be able to also spot passing planes at high altitude (there are sites out there like Flightradar24 that will let you identify them too) - they do look slightly different..

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Desertrat56
34 minutes ago, ChrLzs said:

Satellites, then.  If you sky watch as I do, you'll see many satellites.. but only in the early evening and morning.  That's when the sun is just below the horizon so there are light rays passing overhead, even though your location is in darkness.  As each satellite moves into those light rays it gets brightly lit up, but then at some point they will disappear back into shadow as they move out of the sunlit region.

All of that can be predicted and worked out from scratch - the mathematics are easily and publicly accessible.  Or if you want to get involved easily, just go to Heaven's Above.  You can enter your latitude and longitude and see very precise predictions for everything that goes overhead each night.  Look for the brighter ones, eg magnitude 2 or lower (or negative) - they are the brighter ones, like the International Space Station.  You'll find it will pass overhead at a good viewing time every week or so, and it is a spectacular sight...

With a bit of practise you will be able to also spot passing planes at high altitude (there are sites out there like Flightradar24 that will let you identify them too) - they do look slightly different..

Just the fact that we  have satellites should be enough.   I don't think anyone who really believes the flat earth myth is going to change their mind.   How do they explain the moon?   

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psyche101

guywithbadmemes69_20210925_134022_0.thumb.jpg.3a3d8b9284e2ee13c385b98dcc5bdf3e.jpg

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ChrLzs
39 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

Just the fact that we  have satellites should be enough.   I don't think anyone who really believes the flat earth myth is going to change their mind.   How do they explain the moon?   

As I said, I think most are trolls, and most of the rest .. how can I put it.. are 'challenged'...

As for the Moon - it would have to be a hologram, with varying phases and different 'projections' for both different latitudes and longitudes.

I also like the simple proof that many gradeschoolers have done, with their projects to put a camera under a helium balloon and send it into the upper atmosphere, where the curvature becomes very obvious, with pics like this one:
studentsfilm.jpg.1d0e0300a0df11e5fd7d480bac53ac19.jpg
from https://phys.org/news/2017-01-students-breathtaking-curvature-earth-high-altitude.html

 

 

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and then
On 9/16/2021 at 1:31 PM, Piney said:

It's doing some nice work

Yeah... I guess some fraction of the >2% is better than nothing.  

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Cookie Monster
On 10/1/2021 at 1:13 AM, ChrLzs said:

As I said, I think most are trolls, and most of the rest .. how can I put it.. are 'challenged'...

As for the Moon - it would have to be a hologram, with varying phases and different 'projections' for both different latitudes and longitudes.

I also like the simple proof that many gradeschoolers have done, with their projects to put a camera under a helium balloon and send it into the upper atmosphere, where the curvature becomes very obvious, with pics like this one:
studentsfilm.jpg.1d0e0300a0df11e5fd7d480bac53ac19.jpg
from https://phys.org/news/2017-01-students-breathtaking-curvature-earth-high-altitude.html

 

 

They could argue that things exist only when being observed.

Then we would have to construct a quantum physics experiment spanning opposite sides of the planet. The aim being to see if the other side gets replaced by a wavefunction.

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el midgetron
On 9/30/2021 at 8:13 PM, ChrLzs said:

As I said, I think most are trolls, and most of the rest .. how can I put it.. are 'challenged'...

As for the Moon - it would have to be a hologram, with varying phases and different 'projections' for both different latitudes and longitudes.

I also like the simple proof that many gradeschoolers have done, with their projects to put a camera under a helium balloon and send it into the upper atmosphere, where the curvature becomes very obvious, with pics like this one:
studentsfilm.jpg.1d0e0300a0df11e5fd7d480bac53ac19.jpg
from https://phys.org/news/2017-01-students-breathtaking-curvature-earth-high-altitude.html

 

 

fisheye lens

I don’t think the curvature of the Earth in the photo can be explained by the use of a fish-eye lens. However, its evident that a wide angle lens was used for this photograph. If you notice the curvature of the rope on the right hand side, its bending outward due to the shape of the lens the photo was taken through. Again, I don’t think this effect could justify the curvature of the Earth in the photo but it’s and argument FE proponents could make, 

Edited by el midgetron
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ChrLzs
17 hours ago, el midgetron said:

fisheye lens

I don’t think the curvature of the Earth in the photo can be explained by the use of a fish-eye lens. However, its evident that a wide angle lens was used for this photograph. If you notice the curvature of the rope on the right hand side, its bending outward due to the shape of the lens the photo was taken through. Again, I don’t think this effect could justify the curvature of the Earth in the photo but it’s and argument FE proponents could make, 

While that is an issue with some images, there are two simple and provable (and verifiable) facts:

1. The fisheye effect of curved lines is most obvious when the straight (in reality) line is well away from the centre of the image, ie, out towards the upper or lower extremity of the image.  That image looks to be taken on a wide, not fisheye, lens (of about 30-40mm equivalent focal length), and the horizon is not far enough away from the centre of the frame to give that degree of curvature.

2. There is also a lot of movie footage out there from similar experiments, where the horizon clearly crosses the centre of the frame and is very obviously curved.

Even on an extreme fish-eye lens, if a line is straight and it is roughly centred in the lens field of view, the lens will correctly render it as straight.  Indeed, I own an 8mm fish eye that gives roughly 180 degrees of view, and I can give examples proving the above..

As I said, this isn't really about proving things using technical discussion - it's just an excuse for idiocy, or trolling, or honing debating skills by defending the utterly ridiculous..

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joc
On 9/30/2021 at 5:50 PM, ChrLzs said:

Satellites, then.  If you sky watch as I do, you'll see many satellites.. but only in the early evening and morning.  That's when the sun is just below the horizon so there are light rays passing overhead, even though your location is in darkness.  As each satellite moves into those light rays it gets brightly lit up, but then at some point they will disappear back into shadow as they move out of the sunlit region.

All of that can be predicted and worked out from scratch - the mathematics are easily and publicly accessible.  Or if you want to get involved easily, just go to Heaven's Above.  You can enter your latitude and longitude and see very precise predictions for everything that goes overhead each night.  Look for the brighter ones, eg magnitude 2 or lower (or negative) - they are the brighter ones, like the International Space Station.  You'll find it will pass overhead at a good viewing time every week or so, and it is a spectacular sight...

With a bit of practise you will be able to also spot passing planes at high altitude (there are sites out there like Flightradar24 that will let you identify them too) - they do look slightly different..

I saw a train of about 50 satellites one night last winter.  

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janesix
On 9/16/2021 at 11:02 AM, jethrofloyd said:

Just come across an article about rising numbers of Flat-Earth supporters. Why are numbers of the flat-earhers rising?

Because it might be true?

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