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Eldorado

Is it time to take aliens more seriously?

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Eldorado

In June, the US government published a long-awaited report into UFOs. Although the report did not, as many had hoped, admit to the existence of little green men, it did reveal that not only were objects appearing in our skies that the Pentagon – which controls the US military – could not explain, but some clearly pose “a safety of flight issue and may pose a challenge to US national security”.

The Pentagon also revealed that it has been taking UFOs so seriously that in 2007 it discreetly set up the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP), which has been gathering data on Unexplained Aerial Phenomena (UAPs) ever since.

Full article at the UK Guardian

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Timothy

No, because it can all be explained by known/mundane things and nothing suggests anything ‘alien’.

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Trelane

Until aliens move out of my house and get a real job I will not take them seriously.

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Hammerclaw

What Aliens?

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Mr Walker
On 9/17/2021 at 12:02 PM, Timothy said:

No, because it can all be explained by known/mundane things and nothing suggests anything ‘alien’.

Actually, no it can't. 

MOST can be explained by  those things, but an interesting percentage simply cannot be, even after thorough investigation.

 

https://theconversation.com/us-intelligence-report-on-ufos-no-aliens-but-government-transparency-and-desire-for-better-data-might-bring-science-to-the-ufo-world-163059

Edited by Mr Walker
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Mr Walker
3 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

What Aliens?

Teenagers ?

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godnodog

I've seen UFOs, but never have I claimed aliens, for the simple reason I don't know what I saw.

Mixing UFO with aliens is dangerous because it needs such a level of exceptional evidence that by our current technological known capabilities and science framework it's near impossible (IMO) to prove.

Having wrote that, obviously the UFO needs to be properly addressed and study, and above all it needs to be treated with respect and with a healthy mindset by part of news outlets, by doing simple things like (for example) NOT putting the xfiles theme song or other weird soundtrack.

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ChrLzs
On 9/17/2021 at 7:10 AM, Eldorado said:

Although the report did not, as many had hoped, admit to the existence of little green men, it did reveal that not only were objects appearing in our skies that the Pentagon – which controls the US military – could not explain...

This is just a daft statement.  There will ALWAYS be things just a bit too distant or poorly resolved that do not get identified.  If anything our tech nowadays is REDUCING that number..

On 9/17/2021 at 7:10 AM, Eldorado said:

but some clearly pose “a safety of flight issue and may pose a challenge to US national security”.

As they always have - anything you can't identify could be a safety risk to you or other aircraft.

On 9/17/2021 at 7:10 AM, Eldorado said:

The Pentagon also revealed that it has been taking UFOs so seriously that in 2007 it discreetly set up the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP), which has been gathering data on Unexplained Aerial Phenomena (UAPs) ever since.

Yes, there are good reasons to improve our identification abilities.  Problem is they ended getting a bunch of money-scammers in to do the work, and those twerps turned it it into a moneymaking venture.  Look up Harry Reid, Luis Elizondo, Ron Bigelow, DeLonge....  Note that most of the money dried up by 2012 as NO decent evidence was collected that showed the often falsely alleged 'unexplainable maneuvers'.  It's all a big **** and money was thrown away to those idiots, who, after the Defense Dept shut down most of the operation, went chasing public donations for "ToTheStars".

Typical USA gov't stupidity combined with greedy scammers.  Follow the yellow brick road.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/16/us/politics/pentagon-program-ufo-harry-reid.html

https://www.vox.com/22463659/ufo-videos-navy-alien-drone

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Hammerclaw
2 hours ago, Mr Walker said:

Teenagers ?

See the source image

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Kyle98632

There certainly isn't anything new that actually point to aliens that should warrant taking them more seriously than 10-20 years ago. The unknown is not evidence for anything other than something is unknown.

Not that we should expect a US government report to tell us anything about UFOs being alien. I would assume they know what most of them are, and just won't admit it to not give away to our enemies we know what they have or things we have being discovered and released by sources that they don't want to release them.

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Timothy
On 9/19/2021 at 6:11 PM, Mr Walker said:

Actually, no it can't. 

MOST can be explained by  those things, but an interesting percentage simply cannot be, even after thorough investigation.

https://theconversation.com/us-intelligence-report-on-ufos-no-aliens-but-government-transparency-and-desire-for-better-data-might-bring-science-to-the-ufo-world-163059

Can you please provide an example of a piece of evidence which cannot be explained by the mundane?

The Pentagon UFO videos all can be, they’ve been done to death in other threads…

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Mr Walker
20 minutes ago, Timothy said:

Can you please provide an example of a piece of evidence which cannot be explained by the mundane?

The Pentagon UFO videos all can be, they’ve been done to death in other threads…

The  source i gave  included this. 

quote

What’s in the UFO report?

The No. 1 thing the report focuses on is the lack of high-quality data. Here are the highlights from the slender nine-page report, covering a total of 144 UAP sightings from U.S. government sources between 2004 and 2021:

“Limited data and inconsistent reporting are key challenges to evaluating UAP.”

Some observations “could be the result of sensor errors, spoofing, or observer misperception.”

“UAP clearly pose a safety of flight issue and may pose a challenge to U.S. national security.”

Of the 144 sightings, the task force was “able to identify one reported UAP with high confidence. In that case, we identified the object as a large, deflating balloon. The others remain unexplained.”

“Some UAP many be technologies deployed by China, Russia, another nation, or non-governmental entity.”

end quote 

So,143 of the 144 sightings could not be explained as mundane GIVEN THE AVAILABLE EVIDENCES.

I am sure there are theoretical explanations for  mundane causes, eg foreign aircraft, but, without evidences, they are the same as theoretical  non mundane  theories

 

So, despite thorough examination,143/144 sightings could not be shown to be  mundane. They remain unexplained 

Older investigations such as project blue book found the same thing  After thorough investigation, a small but interesting percentage of sightings could not be explained by natural. man made,  mundane  explanations 

ANYTHING can theoretically be explained by the mundane, or the non mundane .Take your pick .

But that is not what these investigations and reports were doing 

After examining all possible natural, man made /mundane causes, the y concluded  that, no.  none of those fit the available evidences  (or there was no evidnce for any of those explanations) 

Edited by Mr Walker
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Timothy

@Mr Walker, yes unidentifiable due to lack of data, but can still be explained by the mundane.

Edit: Eg. I post a photo of a blurry dot in the sky.

Not enough data to identify what it is.

But it could be a piece of dust, a bug, a bird, a floating bag, an aircraft etc.

So while it can’t be identified, it can be likely explained by the mundane.

It could also be an alien too, of course.
But there’s no evidence to suggest that when there are known possible mundane explanations.

Edited by Timothy
Edit.
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Dejarma
1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

So, despite thorough examination,143/144 sightings could not be shown to be  mundane. They remain unexplained 

yeah stories. how can anyone thoroughly examine a story? ... someone tells someone something- you will NOT know if what you're being told really happened! because it's 'just a story'

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Dejarma
1 hour ago, Timothy said:

Edit: Eg. I post a photo of a blurry dot in the sky.

yeah & to add= how will i know for sure that the blurry photo is of something actually in the sky?

could be a blurry photo of a light at the end of your garden that you're telling everyone is a ufo

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Timothy
47 minutes ago, Dejarma said:

yeah & to add= how will i know for sure that the blurry photo is of something actually in the sky?

could be a blurry photo of a light at the end of your garden that you're telling everyone is a ufo

Exactly!

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Mr Walker
2 hours ago, Timothy said:

@Mr Walker, yes unidentifiable due to lack of data, but can still be explained by the mundane.

Edit: Eg. I post a photo of a blurry dot in the sky.

Not enough data to identify what it is.

But it could be a piece of dust, a bug, a bird, a floating bag, an aircraft etc.

So while it can’t be identified, it can be likely explained by the mundane.

It could also be an alien too, of course.
But there’s no evidence to suggest that when there are known possible mundane explanations.

You are using a  different definition of explain

Sure anything can be explained by a theory or belief, but here the word is used to say wether  or not there are evidences for any explanation

Ie  In those cases there was no EVIDENCE that the things observed were natural/man made  

ie there is no evidence to suggest the y ARE  mundane events 

Take your photo 

Suppose it was checked out by a panel of experts who found;

It was not a speck of dust 

It was not a flaw in the film or camera.

it was not  a bird, insect,  floating bag,  or aircraft etc ( based perhaps on size,  contextual references to other objects etc )

Indeed no logical, mundane explanation could be found to fit the available evidences.

This does not make it an alien craft, but it remains an UFO and it remains unexplained  and unidentified 

Until something can be identified, it cant really be explained  (only guessed at) 

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Mr Walker
4 hours ago, Dejarma said:

yeah stories. how can anyone thoroughly examine a story? ... someone tells someone something- you will NOT know if what you're being told really happened! because it's 'just a story'

I'm assuming there were more to those cases than just stories.

Otherwise investigation would not really have been worthwhile. 

EG a naval pilot's observation is not just "a story"  The y are trained observers whose observations are critical in reconnaissance and combat 

The pilot can be checked out.(for physical and psychological "fitness" )

His/her story can be interrogated.  Supporting evidences, such as radar, and gun or other onboard  cameras  can be checked 

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Timothy
34 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

You are using a  different definition of explain

Sure anything can be explained by a theory or belief, but here the word is used to say wether  or not there are evidences for any explanation

Ie  In those cases there was no EVIDENCE that the things observed were natural/man made  (1)

ie there is no evidence to suggest the y ARE  mundane events 

Take your photo 

Suppose it was checked out by a panel of experts who found;

It was not a speck of dust 

It was not a flaw in the film or camera.

it was not  a bird, insect,  floating bag,  or aircraft etc ( based perhaps on size,  contextual references to other objects etc ) (2)

Indeed no logical, mundane explanation could be found to fit the available evidences.

This does not make it an alien craft, but it remains an UFO and it remains unexplained  and unidentified 

Until something can be identified, it cant really be explained  (only guessed at) 

My bold. (Except for the evidences and and)

(1) Provide a single example where you believe this is the case. One of the Pentagon UFO videos, or something else if you prefer.

(2) This may not be possible as there is not enough data in the image to positively identify or to rule out these possible explanations.

You are failing to comprehend the simple argument I am making.

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Mr Walker
11 minutes ago, Timothy said:

My bold. (Except for the evidences and and)

(1) Provide a single example where you believe this is the case. One of the Pentagon UFO videos, or something else if you prefer.

(2) This may not be possible as there is not enough data in the image to positively identify or to rule out these possible explanations.

You are failing to comprehend the simple argument I am making.

Not failing to comprehend.

I am arguing that your need to disbelieve is clouding the way you are thinking about this 

Where evidences are lacking two possibilities exist 

The mundane /the non mundane 

Which you choose from those two possibilities depends on your biases and perhaps fears .

where evidences are lacking, an object remains unidentified Where it is unidentified it is inexplicable  

Thus its simply not true that ALL sightings are explained by mundane things Potentially they  could be but potentially the y could be explained by alien craft  Until we have more evidences BOTH explanations are plausible logical and possible 

This only applies to a small percentage of sightings.

The rest HAVE been explained by mundane  explanations because there was enough evidence to do so.  

It is precisely where you cannot rule out alien craft, that you can not present a mundane explanation,  as the only answer.

Only a person who totally  disbelieved in the existence of aliens would think or argue like that  

Until I check out Roswell for myself, or meet a grey man :)   I cant KNOW if the y exist, . but I can't know they do not, either 

Hence, anything remains possible. 

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Timothy
25 minutes ago, Mr Walker said:

*snip*

Which you choose from those two possibilities depends on your biases and perhaps fears .

*snip*

You forgot logic.

Do we know that earthly explanations exist for these videos etc.? Yes!

Do we know that ET/aliens exist on Earth? No.

So I’m happy to lean towards mundane explanations. 
Occam’s razor is generally a safe bet with this kind of thing.

And fear is one of the dumbest arguments you can try to use… Credibility gets lost with that one.

Edited by Timothy
Typo.
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Dejarma
1 hour ago, Mr Walker said:

Where evidences are lacking two possibilities exist 

The mundane /the non mundane 

this reply proves you ARE failing to comprehend because there are 3.
The 3rd is what I put forward in 'post 15'

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toast
On 9/19/2021 at 10:11 AM, Mr Walker said:

Actually, no it can't. 

MOST can be explained by  those things, but an interesting percentage simply cannot be, even after thorough investigation.

https://theconversation.com/us-intelligence-report-on-ufos-no-aliens-but-government-transparency-and-desire-for-better-data-might-bring-science-to-the-ufo-world-163059

Lol, thats the good old 5% claim created years ago by the UFO-heads to put some kind of seriousness. Failed anyway.

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toast
On 9/18/2021 at 5:20 PM, Trelane said:

Until aliens move out of my house and get a real job I will not take them seriously.

In my case, 7of9 would be allowed to stay. :lol:

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Nobu

You guys should be really really friggin worried if you really believe China or Russia has drone technology such as what has been mention.

 

ludicrous. It’s like many here have to just make up something that makes no sense to set their mind at peace. The navy videos cannot be explained by foreign governments technology.

Simply not true.

Are they aliens? I doubt it…. But I’m not going to assign an asinine reason to a phenomena because it makes me uncomfortable.

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