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el midgetron

Minneapolis to vote on abolishing the police department

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el midgetron
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Voters in Minneapolis, the city where George Floyd died in police custody, sparking months of destructive protests, will now be able to vote in the upcoming municipal elections on abolishing the police department, the Minnesota Supreme Court said in a reversal of a lower court ruling.

CNN reported on the ruling:

The measure, if approved, would amend the city charter to replace the Minneapolis Police Department with a new Department of Public Safety. The DPS would employ a “comprehensive public health approach to the delivery of functions” of public safety, according to the amendment, and “could include licensed peace officers (police officers), if necessary, to fulfill its responsibilities.” Essentially, the measure would also remove the police chief and the mayor’s power over the agency, and would be led by a commissioner appointed by the city council.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/09/18/minnesota-supreme-court-rules-minneapolis-voters-may-decide-scrap-police-department/

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The state's highest court overturned a lower court ruling that rejected ballot language approved by the City Council. A district judge said the wording failed to adequately describe the effects of a proposed charter amendment that would replace the Minneapolis Police Department with a new Department of Public Safety that "could include" police officers "if necessary."

https://www.npr.org/2021/09/16/1038124610/minnesota-police-ballot-question

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LV-426

"a new Department of Public Safety that "could include" police officers "if necessary.""

 

Could include? If necessary? :blink:

Blimey, even a Brit such as myself can start to appreciate the significance of the Second Amendment...

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Tatetopa

The left and the right both do this.  They get a small number of their base all hyped up to get elected then they propose a law about 25% of the people want ,  I think they secretly hope it won't pass because they know it is foolish.  If it goes down, people may forget.  If by  some crazy accident it passes, the legislators that pushed it  will go down instead.

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Buzz_Light_Year

And the new City Slogan will be "Burn Baby Burn"

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spartan max2

The fact the court rejected the ballot wording is also pretty telling 

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quiXilver

Seems to me that the tone is not so much abolish police entirely, as much as it is to clean house deeply (of the rot) and then restructure.

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papageorge1

I hate the far left and the far right. But the press loves to talk about them because they flame things that get attention like this nonsense. 

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Manwon Lender
1 hour ago, Tatetopa said:

The left and the right both do this.  They get a small number of their base all hyped up to get elected then they propose a law about 25% of the people want ,  I think they secretly hope it won't pass because they know it is foolish.  If it goes down, people may forget.  If by  some crazy accident it passes, the legislators that pushed it  will go down instead.

I don't believe a word of this at all. It's more like a plot from a Movie Called Anarchy 99, but if they did do it may have a positive effect for the rest of our Nation. Because if they did it, there would be total Anarchy, the entire structure of society in that city would collapse. After the rest of Nation saw the results, no Major or Governor would ever consider anything so completely stupid again. They is no better way to learn than from seeing the mistakes made on a grand scale by other leaders.

Peace

 

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Doug1066
1 hour ago, papageorge1 said:

I hate the far left and the far right. But the press loves to talk about them because they flame things that get attention like this nonsense. 

And the press can sensationalize things to sell more papers and advertising.

Doug

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Doug1066
53 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

I don't believe a word of this at all. It's more like a plot from a Movie Called Anarchy 99, but if they did do it may have a positive effect for the rest of our Nation. Because if they did it, there would be total Anarchy, the entire structure of society in that city would collapse. After the rest of Nation saw the results, no Major or Governor would ever consider anything so completely stupid again. They is no better way to learn than from seeing the mistakes made on a grand scale by other leaders.

Peace

 

The City of Pagosa West in Colorado never had a police department.  Theirs has always been a department of public safety, combining the rolls of fire, police, ambulance and emergency services into one.  The emphasis is one of community service rather than the "get everybody" attitude of police (only) departments.  Besides, Colorado has abolished qualified immunity so that police misbehavior can be punished by anybody with standing filing a lawsuit against the offending officer personally.  Minnesota needs to abolish qualified immunity and civil forfeiture as part of its police reform package.

The person in charge of Pagosa West Public Safety is a hispanic, so minority issues aren't a problem, either.

Doug

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Manwon Lender
57 minutes ago, Doug1066 said:

The City of Pagosa West in Colorado never had a police department.  Theirs has always been a department of public safety, combining the rolls of fire, police, ambulance and emergency services into one.  The emphasis is one of community service rather than the "get everybody" attitude of police (only) departments.  Besides, Colorado has abolished qualified immunity so that police misbehavior can be punished by anybody with standing filing a lawsuit against the offending officer personally.  Minnesota needs to abolish qualified immunity and civil forfeiture as part of its police reform package.

The person in charge of Pagosa West Public Safety is a hispanic, so minority issues aren't a problem, either.

Doug

Hey Doug you bring up an interesting point, for a town like Pagosa West in Colorado that mat work out fine, especially with a population of approximately 2085 people. However with a city like Minneapolis where there is a population of approximately 420,324 will respectfully disagree with my friend. In the town you brought into the discussion the population is so small that everyone may know of have at least seen each other. But, with the population 420,324 I don't believe a system like you described could work. Because they would have to hire so many people it would not make sense not to have a separate police department.

Peace my friend

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Earl.Of.Trumps

I would like to see this initiative pass to demonstrate how foul leftist thinking really is. 

Portland OR has defunded (limited) the police there and the crime rates have skyrocketed across the board. 

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Manwon Lender
1 minute ago, Earl.Of.Trumps said:

I would like to see this initiative pass to demonstrate how foul leftist thinking really is. 

Portland OR has defunded (limited) the police there and the crime rates have skyrocketed across the board. 

The problem my friend is in a case where a city completely did away with their police force, anarchists would rule. In a situation like that both the right and the left would be involved, in fact you most likely would not be able to tell the difference between them.

Peace

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LV-426
9 hours ago, papageorge1 said:

I hate the far left and the far right. But the press loves to talk about them because they flame things that get attention like this nonsense. 

 

The problem is that the media, particularly social media, have so much power and influence these days that they are creating news rather than reporting it. They are changing the very fabric of society.

 

Nonsense is en vogue.

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el midgetron
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Male and female voters evenly support replacing the MPD (48% and 49%), but there is some noticeable divergence in support among white and Black voters. The poll found more white voters, 51%, support replacing the department, while just 42% of Black voters support the measure……

…..As part of the survey, Minneapolis voters were also asked to weigh in on whether or not they think the city should reduce the overall size of its police force. Citywide, just 29% of voters said they should, 55% said they shouldn't, and 16% weren't sure.

More white voters support reducing the size of the force than Black voters, but there wasn't a majority among either demographic, 33% compared to 14%.

https://www.kare11.com/article/news/local/poll-minneapolis-police-department-charter-amendment/89-f3c3903f-6f1b-48f7-bf65-2c55ef90af15

From the polls it sounds like this perpetuates white supremacy.

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WVK
8 hours ago, Doug1066 said:

The City of Pagosa West in Colorado never had a police department.  Theirs has always been a department of public safety, combining the rolls of fire, police, ambulance and emergency services into one.  The emphasis is one of community service rather than the "get everybody" attitude of police (only) departments.  Besides, Colorado has abolished qualified immunity so that police misbehavior can be punished by anybody with standing filing a lawsuit against the offending officer personally.  Minnesota needs to abolish qualified immunity and civil forfeiture as part of its police reform package.

The person in charge of Pagosa West Public Safety is a hispanic, so minority issues aren't a problem, either.

Doug

How would that work in Baltimore?

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el midgetron
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By voting YES on City Question #2 to replace the MPD with a Department of Public Safety, we can create a new, comprehensive public safety division that includes qualified professionals, like mental health responders and social workers, who are better equipped to keep us safe and prevent crime from happening in the first place.

Residents of Minneapolis need more options for safety that affirm Black lives and address the needs of our community. We need alternative first responders better suited for certain interventions who can show up quickly when we call 9-1-1. Supporting this change to the city charter is a step in the right direction towards effective public safety that moves away from the kind of policing that hurts our communities.

https://votingwhileblack.com/mpls/?source=sh_stage1_keywords_083121_ads_search&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIsP3WvISL8wIVSm1vBB2twAfcEAMYASAAEgIGrfD_BwE
 

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While the conviction and sentencing of former Minneapolis cop Derek Chauvin in the murder of  George Floyd last year was encouraging to residents, that one isolated instance of justice isn’t enough for some.

“We’ve had Dolal Idd. We’ve had Daunte Wright. The police killings are continuing,”  Mohamed said. “What people really want to see is not just statements from their politicians. They want to see structural and permanent change that is visible and felt.” 

https://www.vice.com/en/article/xgx37j/minneapolis-is-just-one-vote-away-from-dismantling-the-police
 

Daunte Wright fought with the police and resisted arrest, Dolal Idd literally shot at the police. Good luck sending social workers in to deal with this. 
 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Daunte_Wright

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Dolal_Idd

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Buzz_Light_Year
8 minutes ago, el midgetron said:

Daunte Wright fought with the police and resisted arrest, Dolal Idd literally shot at the police. Good luck sending social workers in to deal with this. 

Don't want a Slug

Don't be a Thug.

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WVK

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spartan max2
9 hours ago, Doug1066 said:

The City of Pagosa West in Colorado never had a police department.  Theirs has always been a department of public safety, combining the rolls of fire, police, ambulance and emergency services into one.  The emphasis is one of community service rather than the "get everybody" attitude of police (only) departments.  Besides, Colorado has abolished qualified immunity so that police misbehavior can be punished by anybody with standing filing a lawsuit against the offending officer personally.  Minnesota needs to abolish qualified immunity and civil forfeiture as part of its police reform package.

The person in charge of Pagosa West Public Safety is a hispanic, so minority issues aren't a problem, either.

Doug

The city of Pagosa had a population of 2k people.

I don't think that's comparable tia. Metropolis situation

(Oh I see that was already mentioned)

I will also add that the defund the police people want to see a cut in the police, force not just a name change. Some of them think you can make other roles to have less police.

I don't think that would work to make less police though. We are already noticing palaces that cut police are now rehiring due to crime spikes.

I'm all for adding more help to the police with social workers and other roles, but the truth is that cost more money, not less.

Edited by spartan max2
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Doug1066
1 hour ago, WVK said:

How would that work in Baltimore?

I don't know.  Why don't we look uo some more cities/towns and see how it's working there?

Doug

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Doug1066
38 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

I don't think that would work to make less police though. We are already noticing palaces that cut police are now rehiring due to crime spikes.

In Denver mental health people are part of the police department.  Since Denver started sending mental health workers, they have needed fewer police.  This has been done very quietly, under the radar.  There are places that are making smaller police forces work.

"Defund the Police" is a bad slogan.  How about "Reform the Police" instead?

Doug

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el midgetron
1 hour ago, Doug1066 said:

In Denver mental health people are part of the police department.  Since Denver started sending mental health workers, they have needed fewer police.  This has been done very quietly, under the radar.  There are places that are making smaller police forces work.

"Defund the Police" is a bad slogan.  How about "Reform the Police" instead?

Doug

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/police-response-mentally-ill-people-under-scrutiny-denver-may-offer-n1273035
 

It’s interesting and I’ll admit the approach makes more sense after reading about Denver. However, I believe the article cited only 3% of police calls were responded to by the social-workers (or STARS unit). That’s not exactly defunding, dismantling or abolishing the police. I think it’s unfortunately more than just a bad slogan, I think there is a section of people who expect a bigger change in policing than just 3%. Perhaps they are the one dominating the conversation?

Edited by el midgetron
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spartan max2
1 hour ago, Doug1066 said:

In Denver mental health people are part of the police department.  Since Denver started sending mental health workers, they have needed fewer police.  This has been done very quietly, under the radar.  There are places that are making smaller police forces work.

"Defund the Police" is a bad slogan.  How about "Reform the Police" instead?

Doug

Do you have a source for them needing fewer police officers, and then cutting those police officers?

I'm aware of programs where non-violent calls are being responded to by other professionals.

Which I guess is a little cheaper by not paying people what they are worth. 

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spartan max2

Like I'm not skeptical of the stuff working or being needed. I know it works.

Im just skeptical that this actually is savings a significant amount of money or even leading to cutting police forces.

I haven't seen data showing that yet.

Like my city has some stuff similar to this now too. And it's great. Does really useful good work. But I haven't seen the police force get cut any.

 

Here is the Columbus mobile crisis unit stuff.

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/565564-columbus-officials-praise-pilot-program-that-uses-social-workers-instead

 

Edit: man my brain is fried today. What I mean to say is that I am sure the city is saving some money by less use of hospital services, and jail services. When police respond to mental health calls people typically get took the hospital or jail.

But I don't see any police getting laid off.

Edited by spartan max2
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