Top 11 Reasons for COVID-19 Vaccine Hesitancy – First: Mistrust of Government

[F3SS]

This new tactic, "they're afraid" of needles I presume, like I've seen here and in that Keith oberman video acting like a child is especially funny. They're so mad we won't listen to them they're now resorting to elementary tactics. I've had plenty of shots, given blood several times, have several tattoos and pick my own splinters with needles. People would be so much more on board with some left wing issues if it weren't for them acting like hysterical basket cases all the time. I would've never guessed that this shot would become a left wing issue but largely it is now and in true form they're acting like basket cases and demeaning anyone not towing their line. Get a grip and be happy for once. 

Edited October 6, 2021 by F3SS

[simplybill]

7 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Were all the reunions that were cancelled in the same timeframe as Obama's party, and were all these reunions taking the same precautions as taken for that party? 

Well, I consider the timeframe to be roughly between January 2020 to the present day. Regarding the family reunion I attended: some people stayed home due to concerns about Covid, two people wore masks (out of the 40 who attended), and as far as I know, most (but not all) attendees were vaccinated.

 

7 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Maybe my mistake, I thought the charge was 'hypocrisy'; 'bad optics', especially concerning private citizen Obama, is pretty wishy-washy of a complaint. 

Hypocrisy and bad optics can exist side-by-side. They’re merely two different perspectives of the situation we’re in now, where the politicians pushing for masking and social distancing are ignoring their own rules. 
In former President Obama’s situation, my use of the term ‘bad optics’ was more an observation than a complaint. Former Presidents are generally held to a higher standard than normal private citizens. In other words, politicians and former politicians should be models of proper pandemic behavior, instead of giving the impression that Covid recommendations are really nothing to be concerned about.

 

7 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Again, what specific CDC recommendation or rule did this party violate? 

 Masking and social distancing.

 

7 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

I don't care of they've made the decision 'lightly', I care if they've made the decision rationally and according to the evidence.  The typical doctor or nurse is not a virologist or epidemiologist, they have their hands full with what they need to know to treat patients. 

The doctors and nurses I’ve come into contact with in my lifetime have all appeared to be fully capable of multi-tasking and making wise decisions.

7 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Why are you being so selective about the doctors and nurses you are listening to?

I listen to and respect all doctors and nurses. Well, most of them. I remember a couple of doctors that made recommendations that I disagreed with. As it turned out, my instincts were eventually proven right.

 I’m not being selective in who I listen to. I made my decision to be vaccinated after looking at the research and deciding that vaccination was the best option for me personally. But I’ll always be respectful to those who make a different decision for themselves. 

7 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

What percentage of doctors and nurses overwhelmingly support vaccination and think healthcare workers should be vaccinated?

Healthcare isn’t a Democracy. I believe all personal healthcare decisions regarding Covid vaccination should be respected. In other words, I’m 100% responsible for my own healthcare, and anyone else’s healthcare is none of my business. 
 

 

7 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

You put those all in quotes, where did you see these accusations? 

This is one of the articles I’ve seen where vaccine-resistant people, including healthcare workers, are described as less educated and Republican:

https://www.npr.org/2021/09/18/1037975289/unvaccinated-covid-19-vaccine-refuse-nurses-heath-care-workers

From the article:

“The attitudes of health care workers toward the COVID-19 vaccine essentially mirror the rest of the country — with those living in rural areas, are Republican and have less education and income more likely to be vaccine-resistant. The big takeaway for us is really that health care workers are like everyone else," Lazer tells NPR.”

The article’s author ignores the possibility that Republicans living in rural areas may have done their research and come to the conclusion that the vaccines weren’t suitable for them. The farmers I’ve met during my 23 years of living in a rural area have a lot more common sense than city dwellers give them credit for.

7 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

And why isn't Weiss's commentary here also 'propaganda'? 

Because Ms. Weiss respectfully presented opinions from six different perspectives. From Ms. Weiss’ opening statement:

”As Josh Szeps writes from Sydney, Australia: “Vaccine passports are a horrendous violation of human rights that no sane society should tolerate. And I support them.”

7 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

I guess a slight kudos for referencing Stalin instead of the usual Hitler, but this 'socialism!/communism!' junk has been said about everything forever, and remains pretty ridiculous and over the top.

The Stalin quote was from me, not Ms. Weiss. I only used this quote from her opening statement:  “it feels like a gulf has opened up”.

Maybe the Socialism/Communism references have been overused, but if you could have a conversation with my Cuban and Vietnamese friends who escaped from Communist regimes, I think you would agree that the relentless devotion to Communism by its adherents is a very real and present danger to our way of life here in the US. 

Edited October 7, 2021 by simplybill

[+Liquid Gardens]

11 hours ago, simplybill said:

Well, I consider the timeframe to be roughly between January 2020 to the present day.

I don't think that's the logical way to do it, restrictions and recommendations have changed as the pandemic has surged and waned over time and we've learned more.

11 hours ago, simplybill said:

Hypocrisy and bad optics can exist side-by-side. They’re merely two different perspectives of the situation we’re in now, where the politicians pushing for masking and social distancing are ignoring their own rules. 

Quote please of a rule from Obama that he then ignored at his party.  It was outside and my understanding followed the CDC public health protocols.  For his party there was testing and a coronavirus coordinator, things most reunions don't have.  Bad optics and hypocrisy can exist side by side of course but are not merely two different perspectives. Hypocrisy is far more objective: show the statement that was made and that a further statement or action was the opposite of that.  Bad optics is just a subjective opinion.

11 hours ago, simplybill said:

I made my decision to be vaccinated after looking at the research and deciding that vaccination was the best option for me personally. But I’ll always be respectful to those who make a different decision for themselves. 

I have no issue with people making a different decision regarding vaccination, I have an issue with unvaccinated people acting like restrictions on them are so outrageous and violating their 'freedom' and Marxist and all that other junk.  No one has the right to carelessly spread deadly diseases, it's really amazing and historically ignorant in the US that this even needs to be said.

11 hours ago, simplybill said:

In other words, I’m 100% responsible for my own healthcare, and anyone else’s healthcare is none of my business. 

If someone else has Ebola and is walking around in public that's none of your business? 

11 hours ago, simplybill said:

This is one of the articles I’ve seen where vaccine-resistant people, including healthcare workers, are described as less educated and Republican:

https://www.npr.org/2021/09/18/1037975289/unvaccinated-covid-19-vaccine-refuse-nurses-heath-care-workers

From the article:

“The attitudes of health care workers toward the COVID-19 vaccine essentially mirror the rest of the country — with those living in rural areas, are Republican and have less education and income more likely to be vaccine-resistant. The big takeaway for us is really that health care workers are like everyone else," Lazer tells NPR.”

The article’s author ignores the possibility that Republicans living in rural areas may have done their research and come to the conclusion that the vaccines weren’t suitable for them. The farmers I’ve met during my 23 years of living in a rural area have a lot more common sense than city dwellers give them credit for.

I think you have misread this and are way too concerned about perceived insults to people.  Medical knowledge, statistics, etc, hell even farming, are not 'common sense' topics, nor are they things that people should really 'do their own research' on due to these being specialties.  The statement you quoted isn't about name-calling and propaganda, it's about facts I believe, I believe polls have already shown that people in rural areas, Republicans, and the less-educated/less-wealthy are more likely to be vaccine-resistant.  It doesn't ignore the possibilities that they 'did their own research', that is irrelevant to whether they are resistant to getting a vaccine or not which is all this statement said.  If you don't like how this reflects on people on your side then change the reality, don't complain about the data. 

 

[Myles]

14 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

 

I think you have misread this and are way too concerned about perceived insults to people.  Medical knowledge, statistics, etc, hell even farming, are not 'common sense' topics, nor are they things that people should really 'do their own research' on due to these being specialties.  The statement you quoted isn't about name-calling and propaganda, it's about facts I believe, I believe polls have already shown that people in rural areas, Republicans, and the less-educated/less-wealthy are more likely to be vaccine-resistant.  It doesn't ignore the possibilities that they 'did their own research', that is irrelevant to whether they are resistant to getting a vaccine or not which is all this statement said.  If you don't like how this reflects on people on your side then change the reality, don't complain about the data. 

 

Are you sure?    African Americans are less vaccinated than other races and they are mostly Democrats.  

[+Liquid Gardens]

As an aside I thought this was interesting, and goes to why people should be careful about 'doing their own research'. This one has to do with a paradox in statistics known as the Simpson's paradox, where a measurable effect on a large population disappears or reverses when the population is put into subgroups.

Quote

Showing is easier than telling with paradoxes, so here is a classic example: In 1995 and 1996, David Justice had a higher batting average than Derek Jeter in each year. However, Jeter had a higher cumulative batting average over those two years. 

This applies to Covid stats too, like the stat that vaccines were found to be less effective in Israel:

Quote

You may remember some viral news stories about a month ago stating that COVID vaccines were proving to be less than 70% effective in Israel. But given what you learned so far, would it surprise you to learn that this same data also showed the vaccines were over 85% effective for people over 50, and nearly 92% effective for people under 50 years old?

From https://whyisthisinteresting.substack.com/p/the-simpsons-paradox-edition

[Michelle]

20 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Quote please of a rule from Obama that he then ignored at his party.  It was outside and my understanding followed the CDC public health protocols.  For his party there was testing and a coronavirus coordinator, things most reunions don't have.

Tents are not outside...they have walls. Have you been to a restaurant where no one is allowed inside? This past winter they had the patios closed off with either plastic or tent material. A stupid waste of time and money. They contain the virus as well as a brick wall.

July 27 2021

Covid-19 Updates: What We Know About the C.D.C.’s New Mask Guidance for Vaccinated People

As U.S. infections rise, the C.D.C. urges some vaccinated Americans to wear masks again. The new guidance would mark a sharp turnabout from the agency’s position since May that vaccinated people do not need to wear masks in most indoor spaces.

cont...

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/07/27/world/covid-delta-variant-vaccine

People flew in from all over the country to attend Obama's party not to mention the extra staff and truckloads of supplies being brought in. There was no testing of guests. People were asked if they had been vaccinated. Martha's Vineyard cases spiked afterwards. I linked the articles in another thread.

I've never heard of a coronaviris coordinator.

[+Liquid Gardens]

6 minutes ago, Michelle said:

Tents are not outside...they have walls. Have you been to a restaurant where no one is allowed inside? This past winter they had the patios closed off with either plastic or tent material. A stupid waste of time and money. They contain the virus as well as a brick wall.

Let's keep things in perspective, here are the 'tents' at Obama's party:

Looks like plenty of room to socially distance, unlike a closed-in restaurant.

11 minutes ago, Michelle said:

There was no testing of guests.

"Former President Obama will be hosting a COVID-19-compliant party for his 60th birthday, following guidelines set by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) as the U.S. experiences a new surge in cases brought on by the highly infectious delta variant.

A source familiar with the situation told The Hill that guests at the party, which will be held outdoors, will be required to submit proof of a negative COVID-19 test and that a designated coronavirus coordinator will ensure that all CDC, state and local guidelines are followed."

"Martha's Vineyard is currently designated by the CDC as being in an area of "moderate" COVID-19 transmission. The agency currently recommends that people wear masks indoors when they are in areas of "high" and "substantial" transmission."

https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/565986-obama-to-host-covid-19-compliant-birthday-party-source-says

[Doug1066]

32 minutes ago, Myles said:

Are you sure?    African Americans are less vaccinated than other races and they are mostly Democrats.  

There's a logical failure here.  "African Americans" are not the same demographic as "Republicans, and the less-educated/less-wealthy."  You're comparing apples and oranges.

Doug

[Doug1066]

Beware of people who "do their own research."  Most people haven't got a clue about how to do research and U-tube and Facebook are terrible sources.  Usually, "I do my own research" can be translated as "I haven't done any research."

Doug

[Myles]

10 minutes ago, Doug1066 said:

There's a logical failure here.  "African Americans" are not the same demographic as "Republicans, and the less-educated/less-wealthy."  You're comparing apples and oranges.

Doug

I was replying to Liquid who said:

Republicans, and the less-educated/less-wealthy are more likely to be vaccine-resistant

That is cherry picking because African Americans are very much in the "likely to to be vaccine-resistant" catagory.

 

[Michelle]

30 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

A source familiar with the situation told The Hill that guests at the party, which will be held outdoors, will be required to submit proof of a negative COVID-19 test and that a designated coronavirus coordinator will ensure that all CDC, state and local guidelines are followed."

Yeah, so we can all get up in each other's face, hug and kiss. Forget what the CDC said about the vaccinated passing on the virus.

1 hour ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Republicans, and the less-educated/less-wealthy are more likely to be vaccine-resistant.

All blacks like watermelon and fried chicken and all Irish are drunks...what's new?

[+and-then]

On 10/6/2021 at 9:57 AM, simplybill said:

Doctors and nurses are very well-educated, and obviously dedicated to the wellbeing of the public. It’s not likely that they made the decision lightly to remain unvaccinated. But they’re now among those who are being vilified as ‘poor and uneducated’ and ‘Trump supporters’,

Among racial groups, blacks are far more likely to be hesitant.  I'm pretty sure they aren't a majority Trump base.  When vaccine uptake is broken out by category of education, Ph. D.s are the most likely to refuse it.  The virtue-signalers and pontificators seem to be more interested in mocking those who refuse it than in trying to convince them they should have the vaccine.  My wife is a physician with 25+ years in practice as a Pathologist and she refused the vaccine.  She has several colleagues that have done the same.  I guess the average woke internet individual feel they know more than the doctors do...

[Doug1066]

For and then:

Reply to your comments on now-terminated thread:

Agreed that cruise ships provided a significant source of covid infections in the US.  BUT:  the immediate source of covid in America was from Europe.  It came to Europe from China.

Delta seems to be from India, but I don't know the exact route it used to get here.

Doug

[+Liquid Gardens]

1 hour ago, Michelle said:

Yeah, so we can all get up in each other's face, hug and kiss. Forget what the CDC said about the vaccinated passing on the virus.

I don't know what you are talking about, my quote was a reply to your 'no testing was done of guests' claim which seems to be at the very least debatable.

1 hour ago, Michelle said:

All blacks like watermelon and fried chicken and all Irish are drunks...what's new?

I doubly don't know what you are talking about here.  Is this claim true or false:  rural people, Republicans, and the poorer/uneducated are more resistant to getting the vaccine than average?  I don't find that to be an outrageous claim, I thought polls backed it up.  You're the only one I see throwing the word 'all' in there and apparently thinking it says something it doesn't.

[Myles]

29 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

I don't know what you are talking about, my quote was a reply to your 'no testing was done of guests' claim which seems to be at the very least debatable.

I doubly don't know what you are talking about here.  Is this claim true or false:  rural people, Republicans, and the poorer/uneducated are more resistant to getting the vaccine than average?  I don't find that to be an outrageous claim, I thought polls backed it up.  You're the only one I see throwing the word 'all' in there and apparently thinking it says something it doesn't.

African Americans would not be classified as rural or Republicans.   Are you putting them in the poor/uneducated category?

[simplybill]

57 minutes ago, and then said:

 When vaccine uptake is broken out by category of education, Ph. D.s are the most likely to refuse it.  

I wanted to fact-check this, so I went to truthorfiction.com. The author (Kim LaCapria) explains that the polls indicated the degree of vaccine-hesitancy in PHDs didn’t change over a certain period of time, whereas the story circulating on the internet interpreted it as ‘PHDs were most likely to refuse the vaccine’.

Still, I find it interesting that some of our most educated people (PHDs) are vaccine-hesitant.

From the article:

”The paper’s authors explained methodology and background for the first five pages, explaining that the survey curated information specifically from individuals classified as “vaccine hesitant,” i.e., not the general population…”

“…from January to May…There was not a decrease in hesitancy among those with a professional degree or PhD.”

https://www.truthorfiction.com/no-a-study-didnt-find-that-the-most-highly-educated-americans-are-also-the-most-vaccine-hesitant/

 

[Myles]

6 minutes ago, simplybill said:

I wanted to fact-check this, so I went to truthorfiction.com. The author (Kim LaCapria) explains that the polls indicated the degree of vaccine-hesitancy in PHDs didn’t change over a certain period of time, whereas the story circulating on the internet interpreted it as ‘PHDs were most likely to refuse the vaccine’.

Still, I find it interesting that some of our most educated people (PHDs) are vaccine-hesitant.

From the article:

”The paper’s authors explained methodology and background for the first five pages, explaining that the survey curated information specifically from individuals classified as “vaccine hesitant,” i.e., not the general population…”

“…from January to May…There was not a decrease in hesitancy among those with a professional degree or PhD.”

https://www.truthorfiction.com/no-a-study-didnt-find-that-the-most-highly-educated-americans-are-also-the-most-vaccine-hesitant/

 

That is interesting.  Perhaps they  wise and don't put themselves at risk as much.   Before I was vaccinated, I stayed away from people whether at home or in public.   Always wore a mask and sanitized my hands all the time.  

[simplybill]

9 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

Quote please of a rule from Obama that he then ignored at his party.  It was outside and my understanding followed the CDC public health protocols. 

 

President Obama’s birthday party was held on August 7th.

The CDC issued this recommendation for schools on August 4th:

“Given new evidence on the B.1.617.2 (Delta) variant, CDC recommends universal indoor masking for all teachers, staff, students, and visitors to K-12 schools, regardless of vaccination status.”

That’s what I’m talking about when I use the term ‘bad optics’. Somehow it’s perfectly fine for a former President with hundreds of guests without masks to have a party inside a heavily-constructed tent, but teachers and schoolchildren in schools are heavily restricted. 
 

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/groups/expect-school-child-care.html

 

 

Edited October 7, 2021 by simplybill

[+Liquid Gardens]

1 hour ago, simplybill said:

Somehow it’s perfectly fine for a former President with hundreds of guests without masks to have a party inside a heavily-constructed tent, but teachers and schoolchildren in schools are heavily restricted. 

Thank you for providing something specific.  I wonder how the CDC recommendation changes if you are going to require all participants to submit proof of a negative covid test?  Obviously doing that in schools isn't feasible.

And I'm not sure you argued this but just to bring us back to the OP, I have a hard time seeing why anything to do with Obama's party should be an understandable reason/excuse not to get vaccinated.

[psyche101]

On 10/7/2021 at 12:57 AM, simplybill said:

@Liquid Gardens and @psyche101  -

For the record, I’m not anti-vaccine (I’ve received the vaccine) but I am against mandating that option under threat of losing your employment, or being denied entrance to schools, sports stadiums, and restaurants. I might feel differently if the politicians who put those mandates in place would make more of an effort to follow their own rules about masking and social distancing.

Vaccinated or not, our former President’s birthday party was ‘bad optics’ to those of us in the working class who’ve had class reunions cancelled, or remained at home instead of attending church or family reunions.

As of August this year, 27% of American healthcare workers were still declining the vaccine. Among them are Doctors and Registered Nurses who have been on the front lines of the Covid battle from the beginning. They’ve seen the devastation caused by the virus, and yet, because they believe it’s more prudent to rely on their own immune systems instead of a vaccine to fight the virus, their jobs are now at risk.

Doctors and nurses are very well-educated, and obviously dedicated to the wellbeing of the public. It’s not likely that they made the decision lightly to remain unvaccinated. But they’re now among those who are being vilified as ‘poor and uneducated’ and ‘Trump supporters’, and told ‘they’re afraid!!’ and ‘there’s a special place in hell’ for people who decline receiving the vaccine. 

In my eyes, those accusations are classic propaganda. As Bari Weiss said in her commentary, “it feels like a gulf has opened up” between the ruling class and the working class. The onus of the battle against Covid has been put on the shoulders of the working class by means of threats and intimidation. We’re seeing this quote from Leonard Shapiro being played out in real time:

”No one understood better than Stalin that the true object of propaganda is neither to convince nor even to persuade, but to produce a uniform pattern of public utterance in which the first trace of unorthodox thought immediately reveals itself as a jarring dissonance.”

About Leonard Shapiro:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Shapiro

 

 

 

I don't really get it bill.

This is still a heavily political view. It's a medical problem. 

I get that people are questioning the apparent hypocrisy but why follow the example as opposed to condemn it? 

[+and-then]

On 10/1/2021 at 7:03 AM, Nuclear Wessel said:

1.) No it doesn't. Lol.

2.) You can't resist pulling politics into the discussion at every opportunity, can you?

"mUh RiGhTs"

Yeah, it does.  You've been fully vaccinated?  I assume yes.  Have you been tested for antibodies?  Have you been tested to see if you are carrying the virus around in your nasopharynx?  Israel, Portugal, Iceland... small countries that managed to get high vaccine compliance early on are now seeing outbreaks and they're seeing that viral loads in many of those who are infected despite being vaccinated, are equally as high as the viral load in unvaccinated people.  I've posted links and won't be bothered to do it again.  Believe it or reject it, just as you like.  

As for your mockery, son, a day will come in your life where those rights will be more important to you and with your attitude, you'll DESERVE the slavery you experience.  

The story is an old one and people never really change, they just THINK they're superior...

“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.” ― Samuel Adams

[Grim Reaper 6]

3 hours ago, and then said:

Yeah, it does.  You've been fully vaccinated?  I assume yes.  Have you been tested for antibodies?  Have you been tested to see if you are carrying the virus around in your nasopharynx?  Israel, Portugal, Iceland... small countries that managed to get high vaccine compliance early on are now seeing outbreaks and they're seeing that viral loads in many of those who are infected despite being vaccinated, are equally as high as the viral load in unvaccinated people.  I've posted links and won't be bothered to do it again.  Believe it or reject it, just as you like.  

As for your mockery, son, a day will come in your life where those rights will be more important to you and with your attitude, you'll DESERVE the slavery you experience.  

The story is an old one and people never really change, they just THINK they're superior...

“If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.” ― Samuel Adams

Do you have a source for your comments above the days are coming to an end where you just toss your political comments about Covid19. If your asked for source your required to provide one. 

[simplybill]

18 hours ago, Liquid Gardens said:

And I'm not sure you argued this but just to bring us back to the OP, I have a hard time seeing why anything to do with Obama's party should be an understandable reason/excuse not to get vaccinated.

 

17 hours ago, psyche101 said:

I get that people are questioning the apparent hypocrisy but why follow the example as opposed to condemn it? 

LG and psyche101 -

Warning: long post.

I used President Obama’s party as an example because it happened recently and most people will remember it. To be clear, I don’t begrudge him having a birthday party. My first thought was that it’s a shame he had to have his party in a circus tent instead of in his beautiful home. 

But there’s a long list of politicians who’ve flouted the rules from the beginning: Nancy Pelosi going to a salon to have her hair done just two weeks after the salons across the country were shut down because they were ‘non-essential’; the Governor of our most-populated state having dinner with friends at an expensive restaurant when other restaurants were restricted to carry-out only; and the Mayor of San Francisco dancing in a nightclub without a mask while school kids are required to wear masks all day. It’s as though the Ruling Class and the Proletariat are living in two different worlds.

I understand why people mistrust the government. In less than two years, we’ve gone from “Two weeks to flatten the curve” to “Get the shot or get fired”. We willingly accepted the 2-week thing, but now we’re being coerced into getting vaccinated or risk losing our jobs.
 

It’s become obvious that no one has a clue what’s going to happen next. Both the virus and the vaccines are unpredictable. Between that and the nonchalant attitudes about following the rules exhibited by our politicians, and the ominous “We’re losing our patience with you!”  veiled threat from our President, I completely understand why so many people are reluctant to trust the vaccines.
 

We’re bordering on totalitarianism. I don’t say that lightly. I’ve been educating myself on totalitarianism for a few decades now. I’ve been to two Communist countries to see it up close and personal. I’ve befriended Vietnamese and Cuban refugees so I can hear their stories in person. I have an autographed book written by a man who escaped the Killing Fields of Cambodia who’s a personal friend of my sister, and I recently befriended a 91-year-old Jewish man who’s writing his memoirs about fleeing Germany with his family to escape the Holocaust. I take this stuff seriously, and so do my friends who escaped from totalitarian governments and can clearly see the first signs of totalitarianism creeping into our country. It’s not just a conspiracy theory. It’s happening in real life.

 

 

Edited October 8, 2021 by simplybill

[+Liquid Gardens]

37 minutes ago, simplybill said:

But there’s a long list of politicians who’ve flouted the rules from the beginning: Nancy Pelosi going to a salon to have her hair done just two weeks after the salons across the country were shut down because they were ‘non-essential’; the Governor of our most-populated state having dinner with friends at an expensive restaurant when other restaurants were restricted to carry-out only; and the Mayor of San Francisco dancing in a nightclub without a mask while school kids are required to wear masks all day.

Yes hypocrisy is frustrating, but keep in mind that you and I are hypocrites too; 'let he who is without sin...' and all that.  I'm not sure that comparisons of nightclub visits/birthday parties should really be made to rules for schools, since people spend 5 days a week in schools.  Regardless, yes Pelosi was a hypocrite, but thus what?  That totally invalidates the reasoning behind restrictions on salons?  I don't think so.  We should mistrust the government? Sure, fine, but let's make sure we're staying sensible about it.  I'm again not saying you're arguing this, but the logic behind, 'Pelosi ignored the rules she put in place concerning visiting salons, thus I can't trust the government, thus that's a justifiable reason to not get vaccinated because 'the government' is encouraging it.' is pretty shaky to me.  The vast, vast majority of people who work for 'the government' are normal people and are not looking to be part of the 'Ruling Class'.

57 minutes ago, simplybill said:

In less than two years, we’ve gone from “Two weeks to flatten the curve” to “Get the shot or get fired”. We willingly accepted the 2-week thing, but now we’re being coerced into getting  vaccinated or risk losing our jobs.

Just as we are coerced into not driving drunk or risk losing our licenses, money, and possibly freedom. Again, two years is a long time especially in a pandemic, of course our strategies and approach should change over time as the situation changes.

1 hour ago, simplybill said:

It’s become obvious that no one has a clue what’s going to happen next. Both the virus and the vaccines are unpredictable.

The future is indeed somewhat unpredictable, how and why and that vaccines are effective though is not an unknown.  And it doesn't become an unknown because of anything done or not done by hypocritical politicians, those two things are not logically connected.  It's no more sensible to say, "a cop pulled me over one time and lied and gave me a ticket for speeding even though I wasn't, thus I'm justified in not believing anything the US Secretary of Defense says", just because the are both 'the government'.

1 hour ago, simplybill said:

I take this stuff seriously, and so do my friends who escaped from totalitarian governments and can clearly see the first signs of totalitarianism creeping into our country. It’s not just a conspiracy theory. It’s happening in real life.

Like where?  I don't think we're 'bordering' on totalitarianism although there have been steps taken in that direction recently (but I think you are referring to entirely different 'steps' than I am), but we've got to do a lot more dismantling of the Constitution to get to the point of totalitarianism.  Again, this claim has been made forever, it stretches back to the Red Scare in the 50s, and I at least wonder why I'm unable to see this totalitarianism in our country.  (And no, I don't count these mandates in response to a deadly pandemic as 'totalitarianism', I'd need to get a better understanding as to why the vaccine mandates for public school kids and the military that have been in existence a long time weren't also totalitarianism first.)

[simplybill]

51 minutes ago, Liquid Gardens said:

I'm again not saying you're arguing this, but the logic behind, 'Pelosi ignored the rules she put in place concerning visiting salons, thus I can't trust the government, thus that's a justifiable reason to not get vaccinated because 'the government' is encouraging it.' is pretty shaky to me. 

It’s more than just the casual disregard for the rules that bothers me. I don’t have television, and I don’t listen to radio talk shows, but because I’ve been fortunate to have been able to travel for most of my life I tend to think globally and thus I read the news from all over the world. I really enjoy seeing different perspectives from rt.com (the Russian news website) Haaretz.com (an Israeli news outlet) and Indianexpress.com (news from India), among others. Here in the US, we’re not really getting the whole story about Covid. We’re constantly being told that the vaccines are absolutely the only possible way to end this pandemic. Other countries view it differently. That makes me suspicious. I don’t think it’s a de-population scheme or anything like that, but I am trying to figure out why our government is so eager to channel everyone into vaccine-only mode.