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Manwon Lender

Ancient Footprints are Evidence of Human Activity in America Thousands of Years Earlier Than Thought

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bison

One thing that intrigues me about this early date, is that the traditional route of migration, across the Bering Strait from Asia to Alaska and points South and East was very probably blocked by ice, at, and especially before that time. This points an even earlier migration date, during the previous interlgacial period, say about 150 thousand years ago! 

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lightly
35 minutes ago, bison said:

One thing that intrigues me about this early date, is that the traditional route of migration, across the Bering Strait from Asia to Alaska and points South and East was very probably blocked by ice, at, and especially before that time. This points an even earlier migration date, during the previous interlgacial period, say about 150 thousand years ago! 

https://ir.library.oregonstate.edu/downloads/gq67js78x

This link ^ ..talks about a coastal route.  And the fact that the coasts of 'Alaska' and 'Brithish Columbia' were "habitable" one to three thousand years befor the traditional ice free corridor became available.    Sea levels were much much lower ..so any evidence is now in the ocean.

I've also heard it discussed that people may have even migrated along a Glacial coastline in kayaks, hunting seal and fishing..and reached land further south.    ??

     'Your'date of 150,000 years ago wouldn't  surprise me...  but, maybe that's just due to my own substantial ignorance .  :P

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Manwon Lender
3 hours ago, bison said:

One thing that intrigues me about this early date, is that the traditional route of migration, across the Bering Strait from Asia to Alaska and points South and East was very probably blocked by ice, at, and especially before that time. This points an even earlier migration date, during the previous interlgacial period, say about 150 thousand years ago! 

Yes it could certainly point to an earlier immigration date into the Americas, but there is also another possibility. Our ancestors were some very intelligent fellows and by approximately 65,000 years ago Homo Sapiens had reach a point where their advanced technology started appearing: complex projectile weapons such as bows and spear-throwers,  fishhooks, ceramics, sewing needles.

So it's not a stretch of the imagination to assume that by 30 to 40 thousand years ago they were building and using boats. So even though there were portions of the Bering Strait crossing possibly block by ice, there was nothing stopping the from moving South following the coast line in boats. 

Thanks for your post

2 hours ago, lightly said:

https://ir.library.oregonstate.edu/downloads/gq67js78x

This link ^ ..talks about a coastal route.  And the fact that the coasts of 'Alaska' and 'Brithish Columbia' were "habitable" one to three thousand years befor the traditional ice free corridor became available.    Sea levels were much much lower ..so any evidence is now in the ocean.

I've also heard it discussed that people may have even migrated along a Glacial coastline in kayaks, hunting seal and fishing..and reached land further south.    ??

     'Your'date of 150,000 years ago wouldn't  surprise me...  but, maybe that's just due to my own substantial ignorance .  :P

I completely agree with you and it's also an accepted theory that to avoid the Glacial blockage on land that migration did occur along the Glacial coast line in some form of boats. Homo Sapiens were certainly using adavanced technology approximately 65,000 years ago and building small boats certainly is not a stretch of the imagination at all.

Its amazing that they have finally found evidence untainted that can push the human migration back to approximately 23,000 years ago. I have always believed it was much earlier than the previous 12 to 15 thousand years ago and it's starting to look like it may have  even occurred earlier than the new accepted date.

Take Care. 

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Abramelin
16 hours ago, bison said:

One thing that intrigues me about this early date, is that the traditional route of migration, across the Bering Strait from Asia to Alaska and points South and East was very probably blocked by ice, at, and especially before that time. This points an even earlier migration date, during the previous interlgacial period, say about 150 thousand years ago! 

So there's still hope for this thread.

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Hammerclaw
2 hours ago, Abramelin said:

So there's still hope for this thread.

They got here by boat, the same way the first Australians got to Australia. 

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Torviking

One name, Graham Hancock. QED.

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Manwon Lender
On 9/25/2021 at 7:07 PM, Abramelin said:

So there's still hope for this thread.

I don't think there is any chance for Homo Erectus to have made it to the Americas because they disappeared from the fossil record approximately 100,000 years ago, which is about the same Time frame that Proto-Homo Sapiens turned up in the fossil record. In addition their is no excepted evidence that Homo Erectus even ventured close to the migration paths used by later hominid species. 

As far as Neanderthals are concerned that may certainly be a possibility. While there is certainly evidence that Neanderthals successful made it into Siberia where they encounter another Archaic now extinct Hominid Species Denisovans and interbred with them and also with Homo Sapiens, that basically where their story currently ends.. However, it is possible that future evidence could be uncovered that provides direct proof of their arrival in the Americas which is certainly possible, I don't think the theory that they made the journey will ever be excepted. 

Here is an interest article on the subject of Denisovans interacts with and interbreeding with Neanderthals.

Mum’s a Neanderthal, Dad’s a Denisovan: First discovery of an ancient-human hybrid https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-018-06004-0

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Trelane
Posted (edited)
On ‎9‎/‎25‎/‎2021 at 3:07 AM, Abramelin said:

So there's still hope for this thread.

I don't believe so. The fact that there are consistent finds of H. Sapiens' activity and nothing in regards to H. Erectus is pretty telling.

Edited by Trelane
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Abramelin
23 minutes ago, Trelane said:

I don't believe so. The fact that there are consistent finds of H. Sapiens' activity and nothing in regards to H. Erectus is pretty telling.

And how do we distinguish finds of H.Sapiens activities from those of H.Erectus?

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Trelane
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Abramelin said:

And how do we distinguish finds of H.Sapiens activities from those of H.Erectus?

I would guess that's up to the scientists who are making those finds and reporting them.

Is there an item you would dispute as being attributed to H. Erectus?

 

Edited by Trelane
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Abramelin
Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Trelane said:

I would guess that's up to the scientists who are making those finds and reporting them.

Is there an item you would dispute as being attributed to H. Erectus?

 

I only want to know how scientists are able to distinguish signs of Erectus' activity from Sapiens' activity.

If they don't find bones, how do they do it??

So, we will have to wait till someone finds the answer on the internet, or better, when a paleo-anthropologist shows up here.

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Hammerclaw
1 minute ago, Abramelin said:

I only want to know how scientists are able to distinguish signs of Erectus' activity from Sapiens' activity.

If they don't find bones, how do they do it??

So, we will have to wait till someone finds the answer on the internet, or better, when a paleo-antropologist shows up here.

The age of the artifacts and signs of human presence will pretty much nail down the species of humans. In the New World, all but the most extravagant and disputed claims indicate the the presence of Homo Sapiens, long after the extinction of other human lineages. 

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Abramelin
17 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

The age of the artifacts and signs of human presence will pretty much nail down the species of humans. In the New World, all but the most extravagant and disputed claims indicate the the presence of Homo Sapiens, long after the extinction of other human lineages. 

Even scientists do not agree about what to conclude from the finds:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ancient-bones-spark-fresh-debate-over-first-humans-in-the-americas/

And Siberia and Alaska are not the easiest places to go dig for ancient human remains.

It will most probably be future chance discoveries that will give us answers.

And with the present melting of Siberian permafrost I expect we are in for some surprizes.

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Hammerclaw
10 minutes ago, Abramelin said:

Even scientists do not agree about what to conclude from the finds:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ancient-bones-spark-fresh-debate-over-first-humans-in-the-americas/

And Siberia and Alaska are not the easiest places to go dig for ancient human remains.

It will most probably be future chance discoveries that will give us answers.

And with the present melting of Siberian permafrost I expect we are in for some surprizes.

I agree, There just is as yet no evidence. My own opinion is that if the animals they hunted made it across, they could. too. I think they came by boat, hunting and fishing along the glaciers and dry land 'till they reached the Americas. There's no reason they couldn't have came from Europe the same way. There's just a paucity of evidence for it. 

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Abramelin
Posted (edited)

From Europe??

Where did I mention that?

Edited to add:

And why do your quotes turn up black? Maybe that problem is on my side.

 

Edited by Abramelin
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Manwon Lender
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, Abramelin said:

Even scientists do not agree about what to conclude from the finds:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ancient-bones-spark-fresh-debate-over-first-humans-in-the-americas/

And Siberia and Alaska are not the easiest places to go dig for ancient human remains.

It will most probably be future chance discoveries that will give us answers.

And with the present melting of Siberian permafrost I expect we are in for some surprizes.

While I think few make the assumption or believe that Homo Erectus ever made the Migration to the Americas, I think things could change, do to areass that have been under Ice for many many thousands of years do to global wRming. This is mainly because Homo H  died out approximately 100,000 years ago, and if there was a migration it was very limited, which makes the chances  of discovering any evidence nearly if not completely impossible. Last concerning Homo Erectus, even the DNA evidence that has been collected and analyzed in the last 40 years also shows no evidence of his presence in the Americas.

Now there is general belief in the Archaeological and the Paleontological communities that Neanderthals did very possibly make migration into the Americas. The biggest question appears to be when this may have occurred and which route of entry the Neanderthals may have taken. According to recent DNA studies from 2018, the results seem to support that conclusion in addition to the fact that the first Migrations that occurred may have been much earlier than suspected in the past. It appears according to new DNA analysis that the first migration could have occurred approximately 60,000 years ago.  

On the peopling of the Americas: molecular evidence for the Paleoamerican and the Solutrean models: https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/130989v3.full?fbclid=IwAR17P0UySm6lpn8hs_nYzqVGzPbVgUneOVZJzwNyrOPiK69X9vf36VtI51c

4 hours ago, Trelane said:

I would guess that's up to the scientists who are making those finds and reporting them.

Is there an item you would dispute as being attributed to H. Erectus?

 

 

On 9/25/2021 at 3:29 AM, lightly said:

https://ir.library.oregonstate.edu/downloads/gq67js78x

This link ^ ..talks about a coastal route.  And the fact that the coasts of 'Alaska' and 'Brithish Columbia' were "habitable" one to three thousand years befor the traditional ice free corridor became available.    Sea levels were much much lower ..so any evidence is now in the ocean.

I've also heard it discussed that people may have even migrated along a Glacial coastline in kayaks, hunting seal and fishing..and reached land further south.    ??

     'Your'date of 150,000 years ago wouldn't  surprise me...  but, maybe that's just due to my own substantial ignorance .  :P

 

3 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

I agree, There just is as yet no evidence. My own opinion is that if the animals they hunted made it across, they could. too. I think they came by boat, hunting and fishing along the glaciers and dry land 'till they reached the Americas. There's no reason they couldn't have came from Europe the same way. There's just a paucity of evidence for it. 

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/130989v3.full?fbclid=IwAR17P0UySm6lpn8hs_nYzqVGzPbVgUneOVZJzwNyrOPiK69X9vf36VtI51c

 

Edited by Manwon Lender

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Trelane
4 hours ago, Abramelin said:

Even scientists do not agree about what to conclude from the finds:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ancient-bones-spark-fresh-debate-over-first-humans-in-the-americas/

And Siberia and Alaska are not the easiest places to go dig for ancient human remains.

It will most probably be future chance discoveries that will give us answers.

And with the present melting of Siberian permafrost I expect we are in for some surprizes.

That's also true. I just personally think they never made it here. If they had made it, it stands to reason there would have been some sort of find by now here in N. America.

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