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Eldorado

Can we talk to aliens? And should we colonise space?

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Eldorado

For years, astrophysicists have been saying that alien life must exist, but finding out where and in what form has proved elusive.

We may be edging closer: a team from the University of Cambridge has discovered a new class of habitable planets they claim will lead to evidence of life in the next three years.

Is ET out there? Or is this search, like that for the holy grail, more about us than them?

I asked Jacco van Loon, astrophysicist and director of Keele Observatory in Staffordshire, for his opinion.

UK Guardian article at MSN

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bison

Like every paradox, the Fermi paradox is the result of insufficient information, on our part. The animals in a wildlife preserve don't see much of humans. This is by design.  For the most part, we stay away and let them get on with their natural lives.

Perhaps humans are in a similar situation, as concerns extraterrestrials. 

Still, I can't  help wondering if we would complacently stay out of wildlife preserves, if some of the animals got smart enough to kindle  fires, and in their inexperience,  blunder into burning the whole place down.

That, too, may have a human/ extraterrestrial counterpart.

So, perhaps we're being  very gradually familiarized with the presence of extraterrestrials, who have a proprietary attitude toward the Earth, and don't want to see it destroyed.    

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Orphalesion
1 hour ago, bison said:

Like every paradox, the Fermi paradox is the result of insufficient information, on our part. The animals in a wildlife preserve don't see much of humans. This is by design.  For the most part, we stay away and let them get on with their natural lives.   

But even in wildlife preserves some traces of humanity can be found. So far we haven't even discovered radio signals of any other civilization.

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joc
11 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

But even in wildlife preserves some traces of humanity can be found. So far we haven't even discovered radio signals of any other civilization.

And...

How long as human civilization been occurring on this planet?   Our knowledge of how to even transmit radio waves has only been around for only a little over 100 years.  

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bison
1 hour ago, Orphalesion said:

But even in wildlife preserves some traces of humanity can be found. So far we haven't even discovered radio signals of any other civilization.

Supposing that advanced civilizations still use radio, there are several possible explanations for why we haven't heard their signals. Our own growing reliance on digitized radio signals suggests one.

It's been noted that the more efficiently such signals are encoded, the more they sound, to the naive listener, like random noise. The correct protocols must be used in the receiver, in order to decipher the content of the transmission, or even discern that a signal is present. We would have no way of knowing what those protocols amount to.  

Then again, ETs could very use very narrow, finely focused radio beams, in order to communicate over extremely  long distances. This makes for more reasonable power consumption to get the signal through. We could very easily miss these narrow beams, if our antennas weren't aimed precisely at them, and we have no idea where to aim. 

These are just a couple of the least speculative answer to the question posed. The reality could be something we haven't even thought of yet.   

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Nobu

I’m not sure of what we type here will matter much…

 

it seems to me that we are similar to a virus. If it is possible to expand to the solar system before we eradicate ourselves…. We will.

 

luckily this will be all of your problems. I’ll be dead. —- thus said a virus

Edited by Nobu
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kartikg
On 9/26/2021 at 6:20 AM, bison said:

Supposing that advanced civilizations still use radio, there are several possible explanations for why we haven't heard their signals. Our own growing reliance on digitized radio signals suggests one.

It's been noted that the more efficiently such signals are encoded, the more they sound, to the naive listener, like random noise. The correct protocols must be used in the receiver, in order to decipher the content of the transmission, or even discern that a signal is present. We would have no way of knowing what those protocols amount to.  

Then again, ETs could very use very narrow, finely focused radio beams, in order to communicate over extremely  long distances. This makes for more reasonable power consumption to get the signal through. We could very easily miss these narrow beams, if our antennas weren't aimed precisely at them, and we have no idea where to aim. 

These are just a couple of the least speculative answer to the question posed. The reality could be something we haven't even thought of yet.   

There was a nice video by Joe Scott in which it's said that only a handful of star systems are in line of sight for radio communications. 

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Manwon Lender
On 9/26/2021 at 6:01 AM, bison said:

Like every paradox, the Fermi paradox is the result of insufficient information, on our part. The animals in a wildlife preserve don't see much of humans. This is by design.  For the most part, we stay away and let them get on with their natural lives.

Perhaps humans are in a similar situation, as concerns extraterrestrials. 

Still, I can't  help wondering if we would complacently stay out of wildlife preserves, if some of the animals got smart enough to kindle  fires, and in their inexperience,  blunder into burning the whole place down.

That, too, may have a human/ extraterrestrial counterpart.

So, perhaps we're being  very gradually familiarized with the presence of extraterrestrials, who have a proprietary attitude toward the Earth, and don't want to see it destroyed.    

I personally think the Fermi-Paradox is not very scientifically sound not even theoretically reasonable considering the vastness of our Universe. Your theory about a proprietary attitude is certainly interesting and theoretically possible. To me if an Alien Race has ever entered our Solar System it was most likely between 3.0 and 3.5 Billion years ago shortly after the first life started on our planet. According my theory if they had mastered interstellar travel the Earth would have nothing they would need so they would only pass through our Solar System going some where else.

However if they were explorers there is a possibility that some form of monitoring probes or other systems may have been left behind. I think SETI is wasting resources and time because if there is an adavanced species out there they most likely have the ability to hide their transmissions and other evidence of their existance if they choose to. But, if I were going to look for proof of Alien existance or artifacts that were left behind I would serious look within our own Solar System for technology left from the distance past. I would look very seriously at the Asteriod Belt, first it would be easy to hide a probe or monitoring devise there and that area hasn't been seriously explored by our Probes. 

Take care. 

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Manwon Lender
On 9/26/2021 at 7:55 AM, joc said:

And...

How long as human civilization been occurring on this planet?   Our knowledge of how to even transmit radio waves has only been around for only a little over 100 years.  

The Planet and Solar System are approximately 4.5 Billion Years Old. Amazing as this may sound the first life on Earth started approximately 3.8 Billion Years Ago, So approximately 700 Million Yesrs after the Planets formation the first signs of life have been detected in fossilized Limestone. Then when you look at the age of the Universe which is approximately 13.7 Billion Years Old our Solar System, Planet and the beginnings of life on Earth are very young when you consider that the oldest known spiral galaxy in the universe, was formed around 12.4 billion years ago, it is designated as GN-z11. 

So when all of this is considered we are a young species on a young planet, in a young Solar System. Which means that theoretically there could easily be Alien Species between 1-3 Billion years older than us, which would also make them much much more technologically adavanced than us!:yes:

Peace Bro. 

 

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joc
38 minutes ago, Manwon Lender said:

The Planet and Solar System are approximately 4.5 Billion Years Old. Amazing as this may sound the first life on Earth started approximately 3.8 Billion Years Ago, So approximately 700 Million Yesrs after the Planets formation the first signs of life have been detected in fossilized Limestone. Then when you look at the age of the Universe which is approximately 13.7 Billion Years Old our Solar System, Planet and the beginnings of life on Earth are very young when you consider that the oldest known spiral galaxy in the universe, was formed around 12.4 billion years ago, it is designated as GN-z11. 

So when all of this is considered we are a young species on a young planet, in a young Solar System. Which means that theoretically there could easily be Alien Species between 1-3 Billion years older than us, which would also make them much much more technologically adavanced than us!:yes:

Peace Bro. 

 

If they are 1-3 billion years older than us, and much, much more technologically advanced than us, then their radio waves are still 1-3 billion years a way from us.  So how then would they be able to communicate with us even if they did have such technology?

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theSOURCE

Can you imagine if the galaxy was just like Star Trek TOS, and all aliens looked exactly like humans, except with bumps on their heads or just unusual skin color? Wouldn't that be SOOO boring?


Yeah, I didn't add much to the conversation. I go now.


Byeeee. :st

 

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Trelane

"Can we talk to aliens? And should we colonise space?"

I guess I could talk to aliens, but they need to apologize first. As far as colonising space? I don't think we've gotten to that point in our relationship yet where we can discuss that possibility.

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Manwon Lender
10 hours ago, joc said:

If they are 1-3 billion years older than us, and much, much more technologically advanced than us, then their radio waves are still 1-3 billion years a way from us.  So how then would they be able to communicate with us even if they did have such technology?

First I think we need use a theoretical date so let's say 3 Billion Years. If an Alien race were 3 Billion years older than the human race there are many ways they could transmit their communications almost instantaneous, we can not think in terms of our own capabilities. One theoretical way an advanced Species could transmit messages almost instantaneously is by sending them Wapred or Folded Space using an Einstein - Rosen Bridge ( Worm Hole ). The real problem that would exist if we received any form of communication would be deciphering it. Without a baseline it's very possible messages could never be deciphered, in fact we may have already received a communication and because of our current technology and capabilities we did not even know what it was. 

So basically my friend possibly receiving a communication or even receiving a communication isn't the really hard part. Understanding what we received and then understanding what it means is the difficult part.:)

Quote from declassified paper from NASA.

Communication with Extraterrestrial Intelligence 

""The nearest neighbor to our solar system is Alpha Centauri, only 4.3 light years away; but, according to Dr. Su-Shu Huang of the National Aeronautics and Space Administration, its planetary system is probably too young for the emergence of life. Two other heavenly friends, Epsilon Eridani and Tau Ceti, about 11 light years away, are stronger contenders for harboring life. Nevertheless, if superior civilizations are the nearest would probably be at least 100 light years away; therefore it would take 200 years for a reply to be forthcoming, a small matter of seven generations.""

""This should, however, make little difference to us, in view of the enormous potential gain from our contact with a superior civilization. Unless we are terribly conceited (a very unscientific demeanor), we must assume that the "others" are far more advanced than we are. Even a 50- year gap would be tremendous; a 500-year gap staggers the imagination, and as for a 5000-year gap. . . (By the way, if they are as much as 50 years behind us, forget it!) It is quite possible that "others" have satellite probes in space, retransmitting to "them" anything that sounds nonrandom to the probe.""

""But they have probably called us several thousand years ago, and are waiting for an answer; or worse yet, they have given up; or, more probably, they have reached such impressive technological advances that they have destroyed themselves. In this connection, Professor Iosif Shklovsky, Russia's greatest radio astronomer, has cited the profound crises which lie in wait for a developing civilization, any one of which may well prove fatal:"" 

 (1) Self-destruction as a result of a thermonuclear catastrophe or some other discovery which may have unpredictable and uncontrollable consequences;

(2)  Genetic danger;

(3)  Overproduction of information;

(4)  Restricted capacity of the individual's brain,

which can lead to excessive specialization, with consequent dangers of degeneration; and

(5) A crisis precipitated by the creation of artificial intelligent beings. 

https://www.nsa.gov/Portals/70/documents/news-features/declassified-documents/cryptologic-spectrum/communications_with_extraterrestrial.pdf

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TheGoldenBoy
Posted (edited)

I don't think we will ever be able to communicate with another form of life. Because there are several reasons, life in itself must be rather rare, because the conditions for it to appear are very complex but that is not all.

Life has to develop, evolve, until a species can have a brain capable of thinking, imagining and developing an ability to continuously learn. Because yes, theoretically our brain is twice as big as it should have been and our brain tissue is endowed with a capacity to learn without ever stopping. But that's not all, the species must develop complex hands like ours (we often forget that our hands are pure masterpieces of nature, and that they are very important in the development of an intelligent species.) We must already combine these two things to hope to already have an intelligent species that can develop technologically.

Then it is necessary that the species can develop a language, that it can communicate easily. Then it is necessary that this species survive the "black spots" of evolution (for example for us, human: the meteorite, the black plague, the various diseases which can extinguish our species, wars, survive predators, etc...) Then the species must develop an economy in order to facilitate mutual aid for the good development of their technology, (a small group of individuals cannot mine materials while doing research, while trying to create a technology. .) but the most important point for me, which also concerns humanity very strongly, self-destruction.

Yes, it is very likely that an intelligent species is the very cause of its own extinction, we can see it very well nowadays and in our history (between global warming and the multiple wars that can end in nuclear wars) that for money or territories the human is ready for anything. This is only a vulgar summary of my ideas, but I hope you see where I am going, it is not only the appearance of life that is taken into account when we speak of another form of intelligent life.

Edited by TheGoldenBoy

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third_eye

Maybe none of anybody needs to make a sound and they'll all prostrate themselves and worship all visitors as God... all it needs is someone to pretend to die and then live again... 

 

~

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XenoFish

I think we should colonize the entire milky way. So that through divergent evolution, humans become the "aliens". 

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oldnatcole

Me too. I believe we should colonize space. I don't like the idea of us all being on one planet because of potential worldwide disasters and stuff.

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