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Longtime skeptic now accepts parapsychology as science


macqdor

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LONGTIME SKEPTIC NOW ACCEPTS PARAPSYCHOLOGY AS SCIENCE

 

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On the whole, more open-mindedness on this topic is a good development. Simply debunking all claims of paranormal experiences as “pseudoscience” could result in missing or misreading some verifiable facts about the relationship between the mind and the brain.

https://mindmatters.ai/2021/09/longtime-skeptic-now-accepts-parapsychology-as-science/

 

 

 

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The article referred to above:

Why I now believe parapsychology is a science not a pseudoscience - The Skeptic

He hasn't budged much: Personally, I no longer believe in paranormal phenomena such as precognition, telepathy, clairvoyance, and precognition. I could be wrong, of course, and maybe one day new evidence of a robust and replicable paranormal phenomenon will be presented that will lead me to change my mind. After almost a century and a half of systematic research, I’m not holding my breath.

Along with a few other critics of parapsychology, such as Richard Wiseman, Susan Blackmore, the late James Randi, and others, I have invested a lot of time and effort over the years in directly testing many paranormal claims, to date without ever obtaining compelling positive evidence to support such claims. It would be hard to deny that at those times we are directly engaged in parapsychological investigations – and we are doing so scientifically.

Edited by The Silver Shroud
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22 minutes ago, macqdor said:

LONGTIME SKEPTIC NOW ACCEPTS PARAPSYCHOLOGY AS SCIENCE

 

https://mindmatters.ai/2021/09/longtime-skeptic-now-accepts-parapsychology-as-science/

 

 

 

Interesting story, but your link is not working so I copied it and went to the site, then I reposted you link below. I am a total skeptic, I only had one experience in my life and I believe it was a coincidence, but at the time it was very freaky. My mothers, mother was very sick and was going to die, she lived in my mothers home town in Flensburg, Germany and our family was unable to go there at that time.  Well, it was about week after the family had called us that she passed away in the hospital, her Aunt called to let my mother know, my mom asked when she passed and her Aunt told her that it had just happened about 15 minutes before my mother received the call. 

We had an Antique German Mantle clock over the fire place, and the next morning my mother noticed it had stopped. She went over to rewind it and completely freaked out, she called me into our Living room and she was crying. The clock had stopped on the exact time her Aunt had said her mother died. After things calmed down I went to rewind it, but it wouldn't run, in fact it was locked up inside. It was a beautiful antique clock so I took to a clock maker in Down town St. Louis to get it repaired. Well after I picked it up it's was running great again for around a month, and then it started losing time.

After that it never ran right again, so my mother just moved it into the Den and placed it on the other fire place mantle, and we didn't wind it up again. But, ever so often the dam thing would chime, which was strange because the hands never moved and the hands were not in a position where the clock would chime if it were running.

Your link from the OP https://mindmatters.ai/2021/09/longtime-skeptic-now-accepts-parapsychology-as-science/

Have a good day man and watch out for Casper, he isn't really so friendly!:devil:

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  • The title was changed to Longtime skeptic now accepts parapsychology as science

If I accept the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy, does that mean they're real, too?

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1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

If I accept the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy, does that mean they're real, too?

You mean they're not?:cry:

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1 minute ago, XenoFish said:

You mean they're not?:cry:

There, there,; they're just as real as Dark Matter's 4th Season.:yes:

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What a ridiculous claim.

Of course you can apply scientific principles and investigation to any hobby, fantasy, delusion, etc..  And of course any moron can *claim* to be a long time skeptic - many posts here start with those empty words - from folks who then go on to show the exact reverse applies...

It would only be noteworthy IF this guy showed ANYTHING 'paranormal' that had been proven or even well-evidenced, scientifically.  The obvious thing to do would be to give his best example of that.  But in fact he says this:

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... maybe one day new evidence of a robust and replicable paranormal phenomenon will be presented that will lead me to change my mind.
After almost a century and a half of systematic research, I’m not holding my breath.

???  That sounds like he's still a skeptic to me....

So, did he give an example - obviously? NO.

Has macqdor ever given such an example?  NO.

 

So yep, worthless spam, again.

 

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Enough with the derogatory personal remarks folks - the discussion should be about the topic, not the member who posted it.

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On 9/28/2021 at 11:39 AM, Hammerclaw said:

If I accept the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy, does that mean they're real, too?

:o Wha?   Eater Bunny Toof faiwy not weal?  :passifier::cry:

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Does that mean that there is no difference between science and pseudoscience? No, it does not. Although there is no definite dividing line between day and night, we can all agree that clear examples of each are easy to find. In the same way, we can all agree that, say, physics and chemistry are clear examples of true sciences and astrology and homeopathy are excellent examples of pseudoscience. So how are we doing this?

The best approach appears to be one that does not attempt to apply a definitive list of strict criteria but instead accepts that there are certain ‘benchmarks’ that characterise what we think of as good science.

The easiest way to study astrology is to look at the effect it has on people's decision making. Homeopathy is basically just a placebo effect (which is facinating in and of itself). 

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First and foremost, science is a set of methods for attempting to gain veridical knowledge. It is not an established body of ‘facts’ that must never be questioned. Personally, I no longer believe in paranormal phenomena such as precognition, telepathy, clairvoyance, and precognition. I could be wrong, of course, and maybe one day new evidence of a robust and replicable paranormal phenomenon will be presented that will lead me to change my mind. After almost a century and a half of systematic research, I’m not holding my breath.

He doesn't appear to have shed much skepticism.

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hat’s the classic demarcation problem. “Science” mustn’t mean gathering support for only one side of a question. If so, science becomes a branch of propaganda.

On the whole, more open-mindedness on this topic is a good development. Simply debunking all claims of paranormal experiences as “pseudoscience” could result in missing or misreading some verifiable facts about the relationship between the mind and the brain.

Oh I don't know. How many times have I and I think others suggested looking at the whole problem without busting out the % meter. I think the idea of psi, esp, and the paranormal can tell us a lot about our psychology. As for some of the claims, well they are just that, claims. 

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On the whole, more open-mindedness on this topic is a good development. Simply debunking all claims of paranormal experiences as “pseudoscience” could result in missing or misreading some verifiable facts about the relationship between the mind and the brain.

We know, for example, that

➤ People whose brains are split or largely missing can function normally.

➤ Some people suddenly gain clarity about life just before dying when their brains/bodies would seem less able than ever to sustain it.

➤ Some near-death experiences include acquiring information while a person is known to be clinically dead.

It may be that a more correct account of many paranormal claims will turn out to be something like this: The mind, while dependent on the brain for its existence in our frame of reality, is not simply an output of the brain. If the mind is not simply “what the brain does” (epiphenomenalism), we can make more sense of some of the facts noted above and, in turn perhaps, of many paranormal claims.

Epiphenomenalism is fashionable in science. But there is certainly evidence out there to question it. And merely being fashionable does not make an approach to a subject correct.

The above is the full quote from the opening post. So it is out of context. 

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On 9/28/2021 at 10:43 AM, Hammerclaw said:

There, there,; they're just as real as Dark Matter's 4th Season.:yes:

I"m still waiting for that but all the actors are in new shows.   So disappointing.

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13 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

I"m still waiting for that but all the actors are in new shows.   So disappointing.

It's dead, Jim. The SciFi Channel hates scifi. Jeff Bezos is the only reason we got 3 more seasons of The Expanse.

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4 hours ago, Hammerclaw said:

It's dead, Jim. The SciFi Channel hates scifi. Jeff Bezos is the only reason we got 3 more seasons of The Expanse.

Yeah, all the good shows get canceled and we get Netflix, Hulu and Roku originals that are so badly written they are unwatchable.   Or they have one that starts out a good story and suddenly the writers are fired and the new writers are so depressed they can't see anything but dark.   It is frustrating and encourages me to spend more time on my hobbies.

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4 hours ago, Desertrat56 said:

Yeah, all the good shows get canceled and we get Netflix, Hulu and Roku originals that are so badly written they are unwatchable.   Or they have one that starts out a good story and suddenly the writers are fired and the new writers are so depressed they can't see anything but dark.   It is frustrating and encourages me to spend more time on my hobbies.

Yeah, cinematic sci-fi is in the doldrums. The only great thing coming out is Dune and Since I've read the novel umpteen zillion times and own all previous versions on disk, I'm bored with the story. I'd like to see a show based Zenna Henderson's "The People" stories, or Alice Mary(Andre) Norton's "Time Trader" series.  There's gold to mine in classic science fiction and nobody's interested. 

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1 minute ago, Hammerclaw said:

Yeah, cinematic sci-fi is in the doldrums. The only great thing coming out is Dune and Since I've read the novel umpteen zillion times and own all previous versions on disk, I'm bored with the story. I'd like to see a show based Zenna Henderson's "The People" stories, or Alice Mary(Andre) Norton's "Time Trader" series.  There's gold to mine in classic science fiction and nobody's interested. 

There was a television version with the composite of Zenna Henderson's Pilgrimage.  It was done fairly well considering they did a composite of some of the stories in that anthology.   Zenna Henderson is one of my favorites.  I have read those books on The People many times.   I don't remeber Andre Norton's Time Trader series.  I will have to look that up.  I have tons of her books too.   I think if they could get non-depressed people to write the screen plays and direct both of those would be good movies.

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Just now, Desertrat56 said:

There was a television version with the composite of Zenna Henderson's Pilgrimage.  It was done fairly well considering they did a composite of some of the stories in that anthology.   Zenna Henderson is one of my favorites.  I have read those books on The People many times.   I don't remeber Andre Norton's Time Trader series.  I will have to look that up.  I have tons of her books too.   I think if they could get non-depressed people to write the screen plays and direct both of those would be good movies.

Time Traders, Galactic Derelict, Key Out of Time, Defiant Agents are the books. I watched the Kim Darby Movie of the Week People movie from the '70s recently and it hasn't aged well. 

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5 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Time Traders, Galactic Derelict, Key Out of Time, Defiant Agents are the books. I watched the Kim Darby Movie of the Week People movie from the '70s recently and it hasn't aged well. 

LOL.  I didn't think it would.   That is the one I was remembering.   I forgot Kim Darby was in it.

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10 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

Time Traders, Galactic Derelict, Key Out of Time, Defiant Agents are the books. I watched the Kim Darby Movie of the Week People movie from the '70s recently and it hasn't aged well. 

The Andre Norton series I read was the Witch World series and the Moon of 3 rings series.   I read one of her historical novels too.

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23 minutes ago, Desertrat56 said:

LOL.  I didn't think it would.   That is the one I was remembering.   I forgot Kim Darby was in it.

William Shatner, too. It was made on the cheap and looks it. Her story, Ararat, was in my English Literature textbook in the 10th grade. Imagine my delight when I found the paperback Pilgrimage The Book of the People, later. Norton and Heinlein's books were in the school library. I recommend all her books and own about thirty of her works. I recommend three two book series, Storm Over Warlock-Ordeal in Otherwhere/The Beast Master-Lord of Thunder/Judgment on Janus-Victory on Janus. Beast Master has nothing to do with the movies, other than the concept of a Beast Master which she was paid royalties for. Her Beast Master is Hosteen Storm, a Native American of the Dineh, recruited for his psi ability into the Beat Service during the Terran-Xik War which Terrans won, but at the cost of Earth being burnt to a cinder.

Edited by Hammerclaw
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14 minutes ago, Hammerclaw said:

William Shatner, too. It was made on the cheap and looks it. Her story, Ararat, was in my English Literature textbook in the 10th grade. Imagine my delight when I found the paperback Pilgrimage The Book of the People, later. Norton and Heinlein's books were in the school library. I recommend all her books and own about thirty of her works. I recommend three two book series, Storm Over Warlock-Ordeal in Otherwhere/The Beast Master-Lord of Thunder/Judgment on Janus-Victory on Janus. Beast Master has nothing to do with the movies, other than the concept of a Beast Master which she was paid royalties for. Her Beast Master is Hosteen Storm, a Native American of the Dineh, recruited for his psi ability into the Beat Service during the Terran-Xik War which Terrans won, but at the cost of Earth being burnt to a cinder.

The two Janus titles sound familiar but not the Beast Master.   I will look those up too.  Thanks.

My friend found Pilgrimage book when we were in 7th grade and I read it after she finished. After that I looked for books by Zenna Henderson.  There were several based on her Pilgrimage people.

Edited by Desertrat56
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