The Eclipse of Europe

[WVK]

Not only is the center of political gravity shifting from Europe to Asia, European unity seems a thing of the past. As Britain has left the EU, Scotland is considering secession from England. Catalonia is still thinking of secession from Spain. Sardinia is considering secession from Italy. Poland and Hungary are at odds with the EU over domestic political reforms said to be in conflict with the demands of the bureaucrats in Brussels.

https://buchanan.org/blog/the-eclipse-of-europe-158582

[itsnotoutthere]

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/33584231-the-strange-death-of-europe

[aztek]

give it 50 years, European Islamic federation  will replace it, and looking at what new progressive values are, Islam will be the salvation. 

[Helen of Annoy]

 

The reality was very different  Not to waste my time on explaining the depth of ignorant stupidity and total lack of logic in usual anti-European propaganda. 

 

People often humorously ask someone detached from reality "What colour is the sky in your world?" 

I don't have to ask you, "conservatives". Your sky is colourless and perpetually falling on you, stuck in panic because someone somewhere is not exactly the same as you. It's rather hellish existence. Maybe, if you could notice the world is diverse and keeps changing, since the dawn of time, you could relax a bit. 

 

[odas]

5 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

 

The reality was very different  Not to waste my time on explaining the depth of ignorant stupidity and total lack of logic in usual anti-European propaganda. 

 

People often humorously ask someone detached from reality "What colour is the sky in your world?" 

I don't have to ask you, "conservatives". Your sky is colourless and perpetually falling on you, stuck in panic because someone somewhere is not exactly the same as you. It's rather hellish existence. Maybe, if you could notice the world is diverse and keeps changing, since the dawn of time, you could relax a bit. 

 

Right on Helen. The far right nationalist just can't get over Brexit done in absolute chaos.

The biggest threat to EU is not russia or china or muslims, it is now the Brexit losers.

 

[LV-426]

30 minutes ago, odas said:

Right on Helen. The far right nationalist just can't get over Brexit done in absolute chaos.

The biggest threat to EU is not russia or china or muslims, it is now the Brexit losers.

 

Christ, are even Canadians moaning about ****ing Brexit these days?

Brexit affects you in what way?

[Guest Br Cornelius]

All of those separatist regions of Federalist member state countries want to remain members of the EU. The countries who you would expect most to want to leave the EU because of their recent difficulties all are firmly in favour of remaining in the EU -I speak of Ireland, Greece and Portugal. The only countries which actually have left the EU and want to leave the EU are countries who's politics has drifted slightly to the left of the Nazis.

This is just right wing wet dreams.

 

Br Cornelius

[Helen of Annoy]

18 minutes ago, LV-426 said:

 

Christ, are even Canadians moaning about ****ing Brexit these days?

Brexit affects you in what way?

Brexit was declared British choice. As an average EUropean, I've got no problem with any choice of any nation. (I do have a problem with minimal majority in unbinding referendum being misused to wreck a country. Because I like Brits, I do not like Brexit.)  

I do often comment the obvious faults of Brexit, because it wasn't the choice of true majority of British people and I honestly think it's a ****-show. 

Still, it doesn't affect me. Or Canadians. 

What does affect me and whole Europe and the US and Canada too is the proverbial Russian propaganda support not just pro-Brexit but anti-West. It's not just Europe that the current Russian regime wants to cripple, it's the whole Western world. To which my part of the world, Eastern Europe, willingly and wholeheartedly joined.

Now, when the true consequences and nature of Brexit are becoming obvious (no unicorns, no rainbows, no supplies, no plan etc) it's certain that the propaganda will blare full blast again. See this recent desperate pieces, trying to interpret Scottish desire to rejoin the EU as a sign of the fall of Europe. I mean, if it wasn't so morbidly comical it would be tragically stupid. 

Alas, morons will fall for it. And they'll act against their own countries' interests, blinded with isolationist propaganda. 

This is why Brexiters are a danger. They will support anything, no matter how dishonest or desperate, just if they can make themselves believe it will make their failure less prominent.         

People didn't know what they're falling for, because it was confirming their supremacy myth. Now they won't want to believe the obvious truth and they will accept any excuse, no matter how irrational, just to avoid admitting themselves that a) they've been tricked and b) they're not that exceptionally better than the rest of us. 

That's why Brexit is not just devastating for the UK, but also poses a danger for the West, that will become chronic. 

I'm not saying it's Russians' fault, their regime just correctly diagnosed and misused the obvious faults in both British (Brexit) and American (Trump)  society. 

May they all wake up, have a coffee and stop sawing off the branch they're sitting on. 

'scuse me for ranting. 

[Silver]

1 hour ago, Helen of Annoy said:

 

The reality was very different  Not to waste my time on explaining the depth of ignorant stupidity and total lack of logic in usual anti-European propaganda. 

 

People often humorously ask someone detached from reality "What colour is the sky in your world?" 

I don't have to ask you, "conservatives". Your sky is colourless and perpetually falling on you, stuck in panic because someone somewhere is not exactly the same as you. It's rather hellish existence. Maybe, if you could notice the world is diverse and keeps changing, since the dawn of time, you could relax a bit. 

 

Don't waste your time with this thread, Helen. Look at teh authors credentials:Pat Buchanan - Wikipedia

[odas]

1 hour ago, LV-426 said:

 

Christ, are even Canadians moaning about ****ing Brexit these days?

Brexit affects you in what way?

I might be in Canada but still on this Planet. Everything that happens there will affect us here.

 

[Guest Br Cornelius]

1 hour ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Brexit was declared British choice. As an average EUropean, I've got no problem with any choice of any nation. (I do have a problem with minimal majority in unbinding referendum being misused to wreck a country. Because I like Brits, I do not like Brexit.)  

I do often comment the obvious faults of Brexit, because it wasn't the choice of true majority of British people and I honestly think it's a ****-show. 

Still, it doesn't affect me. Or Canadians. 

What does affect me and whole Europe and the US and Canada too is the proverbial Russian propaganda support not just pro-Brexit but anti-West. It's not just Europe that the current Russian regime wants to cripple, it's the whole Western world. To which my part of the world, Eastern Europe, willingly and wholeheartedly joined.

Now, when the true consequences and nature of Brexit are becoming obvious (no unicorns, no rainbows, no supplies, no plan etc) it's certain that the propaganda will blare full blast again. See this recent desperate pieces, trying to interpret Scottish desire to rejoin the EU as a sign of the fall of Europe. I mean, if it wasn't so morbidly comical it would be tragically stupid. 

Alas, morons will fall for it. And they'll act against their own countries' interests, blinded with isolationist propaganda. 

This is why Brexiters are a danger. They will support anything, no matter how dishonest or desperate, just if they can make themselves believe it will make their failure less prominent.         

People didn't know what they're falling for, because it was confirming their supremacy myth. Now they won't want to believe the obvious truth and they will accept any excuse, no matter how irrational, just to avoid admitting themselves that a) they've been tricked and b) they're not that exceptionally better than the rest of us. 

That's why Brexit is not just devastating for the UK, but also poses a danger for the West, that will become chronic. 

I'm not saying it's Russians' fault, their regime just correctly diagnosed and misused the obvious faults in both British (Brexit) and American (Trump)  society. 

May they all wake up, have a coffee and stop sawing off the branch they're sitting on. 

'scuse me for ranting. 

Brilliant analysis of the situation. Watch them call you a remoaner
Russia has been conducting a cyber war on the Western Powers for over a decade now.

Br Cornelius

[Silver]

1 hour ago, The Silver Shroud said:

Don't waste your time with this thread, Helen. Look at the authors credentials:Pat Buchanan - Wikipedia

From wikipedia:The Anti-Defamation League has called Buchanan an "unrepentant bigot" who "repeatedly demonizes Jews and minorities and openly affiliates with white supremacists."[60] In article for The Washington Post in March 1992, conservative columnist Charles Krauthammer suggested: "The real problem with Buchanan ... is not that his instincts are antisemitic but that they are, in various and distinct ways, fascistic."[61] "There's no doubt," said Krauthammer in 1999 when contacted for a Salon article, "he makes subliminal appeals to prejudice." He added: "The interesting thing is how he can say these things and still be considered a national figure."[22] Buchanan denies assertions that he is an antisemite, and some of his fellow journalists, including Murray Rothbard,[62] Jack Germond, Al Hunt and Mark Shields, have defended him against the charge.[63]

When I read that sort of thing about an author for some reason I always doubt their objectivity.

Edited September 29, 2021 by The Silver Shroud

[LV-426]

40 minutes ago, odas said:

I might be in Canada but still on this Planet. Everything that happens there will affect us here.

 

You're mindlessly buying into the narrative of those with an extremely prejudical view of Britain.

Ask Helen her views on Britain's involvement in the Yugoslav Wars.

Ask the Irish posters - including one particular faux-Irish poster - whether their views are in any way coloured through the lens of history.

Ask them if their accusation of xenophobia is in reality at the very core of their own view of Britain, or let's be specific... England. A tip though, don't expect an honest answer, as it's easier to point the finger at others than oneself.

 

Brexit was the end of a union which was originally sold as an economic union with the formation of the EEC, which morphed into a political union, which is rapidly morphing into a military union, which nobody in Britain ever asked for:

Emmanuel Macron calls for creation of a ‘true European army’ to defend against Russia and the US

Emmanuel Macron gloats about European army and demands 'sovereign' EU

 

The way Remoaners would have it, Britain's planning to start up the East India Company again

 

Would you accept a trading union in Canada becoming a military union, with limited say on the people that lead that military?

No? I thought not.

[LV-426]

2 hours ago, Helen of Annoy said:

Alas, morons will fall for it. And they'll act against their own countries' interests, blinded with isolationist propaganda. 

This is why Brexiters are a danger. They will support anything, no matter how dishonest or desperate, just if they can make themselves believe it will make their failure less prominent.

 

Do you know what makes people isolationist, Helen?

Completely blind, prejudiced views such as your own.

You've just declared that over 17 million people in my country are "dangerous" "morons" who will "support anything, no matter how dishonest or desperate."

 

Who's the racist here?

[Guest Br Cornelius]

Just now, LV-426 said:

 

Do you know what makes people isolationist, Helen?

Completely blind, prejudiced views such as your own.

You've just declared that over 17 million people in my country are "dangerous" "morons" who will "support anything, no matter how dishonest or desperate."

 

Who's the racist here?

Yes she has, and she isn't wrong.

 

Br Cornelius

[Helen of Annoy]

3 minutes ago, LV-426 said:

 

Do you know what makes people isolationist, Helen?

Completely blind, prejudiced views such as your own.

You've just declared that over 17 million people in my country are "dangerous" "morons" who will "support anything, no matter how dishonest or desperate."

 

Who's the racist here?

You can't be, at the same time, a poor, helpless, prosecuted victim of racism and a superhuman who is ethnically cleansing his exceptional island.

Choose one. So I can ridicule it. Not that I can't ridicule your illogical hypocrisy, but it's just too easy. 

[Silver]

8 minutes ago, LV-426 said:

 

You're mindlessly buying into the narrative of those with an extremely prejudical view of Britain.

Ask Helen her views on Britain's involvement in the Yugoslav Wars.

Ask the Irish posters - including one particular faux-Irish poster - whether their views are in any way coloured through the lens of history.

Ask them if their accusation of xenophobia is in reality at the very core of their own view of Britain, or let's be specific... England. A tip though, don't expect an honest answer, as it's easier to point the finger at others than oneself.

 

Brexit was the end of a union which was originally sold as an economic union with the formation of the EEC, which morphed into a political union, which is rapidly morphing into a military union, which nobody in Britain ever asked for:

Emmanuel Macron calls for creation of a ‘true European army’ to defend against Russia and the US

Emmanuel Macron gloats about European army and demands 'sovereign' EU

 

The way Remoaners would have it, Britain's planning to start up the East India Company again

 

Would you accept a trading union in Canada becoming a military union, with limited say on the people that lead that military?

No? I thought not.

You're seriously deluded if you believe the UK could have been forced to join an EU army. Even the devious bigot Farage wouldn't believe that. He told all sorts of other lies, do you think he would not have used that if it were remotely possible?

The UK can’t be forced into an “EU Army” - Full Fact

[Silver]

18 minutes ago, LV-426 said:

 

Do you know what makes people isolationist, Helen?

Completely blind, prejudiced views such as your own.

You've just declared that over 17 million people in my country are "dangerous" "morons" who will "support anything, no matter how dishonest or desperate."

 

Who's the racist here?

Not 17 million by a long chalk, many different people voted for Brexit for many different reasons- some to show their anger towards the Cameron Government, some to improve their own industries like the fishermen and farmers, some because we would remain in the single market- there were many different promises made. Almost all lies, of course.

Some were just xenophobic bigots though.

Edited September 29, 2021 by The Silver Shroud

[Guest Br Cornelius]

We judge people by their results - not their intent.

Br Cornelius

[LV-426]

1 minute ago, Helen of Annoy said:

You can't be, at the same time, a poor, helpless, prosecuted victim of racism and a superhuman who is ethnically cleansing his exceptional island.

Choose one. So I can ridicule it. Not that I can't ridicule your illogical hypocrisy, but it's just too easy. 

 

Ethnic cleansing?

So... psychologically that particular term makes it crystal clear where you views are coming from.

Your taking your own experiences from the former Yugoslavia, and projecting them onto Britain.

 

It isn't a matter of "choosing one." This isn't the black and white picture you see it as.

For example, I may support Windrush, the Afghan refugees, those wishing to relocate from Hong Kong. I may not support boatloads of young male economic migrants from Asia and Africa.

You can't just unequivocally support unchecked migration into your country. That's an utter recipe for disaster.

 

It's kind of a moot point as well, as despite the rhetoric (on both sides to be fair) Brexit for many was never about immigration, it was about sovereignty, the ability to make our own decisions, with our own elected politicians.

If you reduced this to a more personal level, would you like to be in charge of your own life? Or would you like to run all your decisions through a group of officials who you had no real say in electing?

[Guest Br Cornelius]

You cannot analyses the English outside of the context of their history. Unfortunately they don't really teach British History in British Schools, Michael Gove even went to the extent of codifying the Propaganda that British children can be exposed to and its a very sanitized version of reality.

Only when you live in one of their x-colonies or take a higher history degree can you see something of the reality of British history.
 

Br Cornelius

Edited September 29, 2021 by Br Cornelius

[LV-426]

24 minutes ago, Br Cornelius said:

Yes she has, and she isn't wrong.

 

Br Cornelius

 

She isn't to someone who makes Stalin look like a liberal.

 

Maybe you should prise yourself out of your comfortable wine, cheese and cracker sampling lifestyle in rural Ireland - or was it neo-liberal metropolitan? - and head over to the north of England. I'm sure many over here would love to hear your views.

Personally, I'd simply be happy to compare your "moron" assertion via educational and intellectual criteria.

[Guest Br Cornelius]

3 minutes ago, LV-426 said:

 

She isn't to someone who makes Stalin look like a liberal.

 

Maybe you should prise yourself out of your comfortable wine, cheese and cracker sampling lifestyle in rural Ireland - or was it neo-liberal metropolitan? - and head over to the north of England. I'm sure many over here would love to hear your views.

Personally, I'd simply be happy to compare your "moron" assertion via educational and intellectual criteria.

You sound bitter

I have always found that ridicule is the best response to hubris such as yours.
 

Br Cornelius

Edited September 29, 2021 by Br Cornelius

[LV-426]

4 minutes ago, Br Cornelius said:

You sound bitter
 

Br Cornelius

 

Not bitter, just a tad irritaed by a pretentious little man, who's still sore that he was on the losing side of Brexit.

Do I need to post the sour grapes meme again?

Edited September 29, 2021 by LV-426

[Guest Br Cornelius]

Just now, LV-426 said:

 

Not bitter, just a tad irritaed by a pretentious little man, who's still sore that he was on the losing side of Brexit.

Do I need to post the sour grapes meme again?

If your humour is that childish be my guest. But yes bitter is the best word.
 

Br Cornelius