The Eclipse of Europe

[Silver]

UK supply problems to worsen from tomorrow (Friday) as EU drivers will have to show passports instead of EU IDs. 

Retail analyst Clive Black:

Mr Black told The Times: 'I expect Christmas will be a nightmare for consumers. There will be food on supermarket shelves but there will be a distinct lack of choice.

'Shortages of labour have meant businesses have not laid down the same number of turkeys or planted the same number of crops and the HGV driver shortage is compounding the problem.'

The Liverpool-based analyst with Shore Capital added: 'A lot of people eating on Christmas Day will be asking 'What the hell is this?' It won't be traditional.

'They may be eating other meats and nut roasts. Equally if the CO2 (carbon dioxide) problem does not settle, expect beer and carbonated soft drinks to be in short supply and a lot more expensive.'

Supply chain chaos may WORSEN tomorrow as EU drivers have to show passports instead of ID cards  | Daily Mail Online

Edited September 30, 2021 by The Silver Shroud

[Katzenking]

On 9/29/2021 at 2:37 PM, WVK said:

 

https://buchanan.org/blog/the-eclipse-of-europe-158582

I just visited his website. Here are some headlines of his other "columns":

- Trumpism Lives On!
- Who and What Killed George Floyd?
- Did Hitler Want War?
- Yes, the System Is Rigged
- The Donald Lives!
- Is Putin One of Us?

[+OverSword]

On 9/29/2021 at 8:38 AM, Helen of Annoy said:

Your sky is colourless and perpetually falling on you, stuck in panic because someone somewhere is not exactly the same as you.

You just described every liberal in the USA except the sky is rainbow colored.

[Guest Br Cornelius]

6 hours ago, OverSword said:

You just described every liberal in the USA except the sky is rainbow colored.

The difference is a conservative wants uniformity where as a liberal wants diversity - thats a huge difference.

 

Br Cornelius

[itsnotoutthere]

3 hours ago, Br Cornelius said:

The difference is a conservative wants uniformity where as a liberal wants diversity - thats a huge difference.

 

Br Cornelius

The difference is a conservative wants uniformity where as a liberal wants division - that's the real difference. (ergo - identity politics)

There, fixed it for you.

Edited October 1, 2021 by itsnotoutthere

[RAyMO]

3 hours ago, Br Cornelius said:

The difference is a conservative wants uniformity where as a liberal wants diversity - thats a huge difference.

 

Br Cornelius

imo a conservative is all about ME, a liberal is all about US. 

[WVK]

2 hours ago, RAyMO said:

imo a conservative is all about ME, a liberal is all about US. 

Liberals ate about the former, conservatives the latter

“Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.” 

[itsnotoutthere]

2 hours ago, RAyMO said:

imo a conservative is all about ME, a liberal is all about US. 

When there's a problem...

A conservative is "I should do something"

A liberal is "somebody should do something"

Edited October 1, 2021 by itsnotoutthere

[Katzenking]

We need both.
In the best sense...

... Liberals improve things, bring in new ideas and continue to develop the societies further.
... Conservatives preserve things that work fine and slow down progression so that changes don't come too fast.

[Buzz_Light_Year]

7 hours ago, Br Cornelius said:

The difference is a conservative wants uniformity where as a liberal wants diversity - thats a huge difference.

 

Br Cornelius

Liberals want conformity and masquerade it as diversity.

 

[+OverSword]

9 hours ago, Br Cornelius said:

The difference is a conservative wants uniformity where as a liberal wants diversity - thats a huge difference.

 

Br Cornelius

Nope.  They want uniformity of diversity, or extremism acceptance.  In my experience conservatives are much more accepting of a liberal than liberals are of a conservative.  Perfect example are all the videos people made trying to "infiltrate" trump rallies in which they were completely shocked that nobody attacked them or berated them but instead welcomed them.  No conservative at a liberal event could get by with less than a brow beating and shaming.  It is not liberals that say I may not agree with what you say but I will fight for your right to say it, liberals are intolerant of conservatives opinions.  It's why liberalism is dominating narratives and conservatism is not.

[Helen of Annoy]

59 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Nope.  They want uniformity of diversity, or extremism acceptance.  In my experience conservatives are much more accepting of a liberal than liberals are of a conservative.  Perfect example are all the videos people made trying to "infiltrate" trump rallies in which they were completely shocked that nobody attacked them or berated them but instead welcomed them.  No conservative at a liberal event could get by with less than a brow beating and shaming.  It is not liberals that say I may not agree with what you say but I will fight for your right to say it, liberals are intolerant of conservatives opinions.  It's why liberalism is dominating narratives and conservatism is not.

 Only sometimes a conservative plows through liberal crowd with a car or a truck. Only some of the insurrectionists were there to murder members of government and the policemen who did their job. Only some conservatives would murder a woman for not wanting a baby. Only sometimes a conservative demands censure because while they will commit all sorts of crimes, they don't want that to be publicly discussed. And so on. 

So I don't think your theory is correct. 

But "teletubby" type of (not really) liberals get on my nerves too. On anyone sane's nerves. With their bizarre touchiness and need to forbid everything, just in case it might offend someone. It's not liberalism, it's need to control others disguised with some rainbows and ****.   

[+OverSword]

15 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

 Only sometimes a conservative plows through liberal crowd with a car or a truck. Only some of the insurrectionists were there to murder members of government and the policemen who did their job. Only some conservatives would murder a woman for not wanting a baby. Only sometimes a conservative demands censure because while they will commit all sorts of crimes, they don't want that to be publicly discussed. And so on. 

So I don't think your theory is correct. 

But "teletubby" type of (not really) liberals get on my nerves too. On anyone sane's nerves. With their bizarre touchiness and need to forbid everything, just in case it might offend someone. It's not liberalism, it's need to control others disguised with some rainbows and ****.   

To your entire first paragraph, there are crazy people on all sides. The teletubby type steers the liberal agenda.  They have taken over, if you are not them then you are a conservative.  All conservatives condemn murder.  The liberal's are headed in the  "You have to break a few eggs to make an omlette" direction.   I used to be considered a liberal but now am considered a conservative.  I haven't changed, if anything I'm even more open minded than ever.  The left has coopted liberals and they are looney tunes. Maybe it's different where you are, here it is not.

Edited October 1, 2021 by OverSword

[Guest Br Cornelius]

8 hours ago, itsnotoutthere said:

The difference is a conservative wants uniformity where as a liberal wants division - that's the real difference. (ergo - identity politics)

There, fixed it for you.

Acceptance of diversity cures division. Your analysis nicely sums up why Conservatives are at the for front of many conflicts against things different from themselves.

There are some mighty wild misconceptions about what a Liberal actually is here. Lets just say that all human progress has been driven forward by liberals with conservatives dragging at their heals to stop them. Lets just say that slavery would still be common (in the west), women would not have the vote, homosexuality would still be illegal, abortion would have a murder charge (oh sorry that's coming back because of conservatives), blacks would have no rights .... the list is endless.

Br Cornelius

Edited October 1, 2021 by Br Cornelius

[Tatetopa]

 

[+OverSword]

14 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

 

And the reality the left gets regardless of intentions.  Over 100 million of their own people dead at the hands of their governments in the last century.  You know why?  Because they are not tolerant regardless of what lies they tell themselves.  The picture below demonstrates the ultimate definition of intolerance.

Edited October 1, 2021 by OverSword

[Helen of Annoy]

42 minutes ago, OverSword said:

To your entire first paragraph, there are crazy people on all sides. The teletubby type steers the liberal agenda.  They have taken over, if you are not them then you are a conservative.  All conservatives condemn murder.  The liberal's are headed in the  "You have to break a few eggs to make an omlette" direction.   I used to be considered a liberal but now am considered a conservative.  I haven't changed, if anything I'm even more open minded than ever.  The left has coopted liberals and they are looney tunes. Maybe it's different where you are, here it is not.

Regarding the US, it's the "conservatives" who think "Liberal Hunting Permit" and such murderous and terrorist-y **** is funny. Because I'm rather conservative, I seriously think there should be limits to publicly displayed attempts at "conservative" humour, since stupider people tend to take things literally.   

Regarding Europe, no, Europeans are not divided into two teams, pitted against each other. Which brings us back on topic - the fall of EUrope, at which project Russian propaganda was and still is heavily engaged, demands different approach. They went with stuff that was working on Americans, and similar set for the English, and it did attract some insecure flies in the EU, but nowhere near the critical moron mass.

It's because - I guess - vast majority of Europeans are better informed about actual history and their countries' actual, realistic current options and abilities. People who honestly believe they're above the rest of the world by their ethnicity alone, and that their country can screw the whole world over single-handedly are in fact rare. And so stupid they can't really keep anyone sane in their circle. It's just too embarrassing. And it's not a matter of liberalism or conservatism, it's a matter of being considered stupid. Supremacy myths are simply stupid. 

I see you brought up communist crimes with that photo. The problem wasn't communism, the problem was that it was totalitarian. Right or left, totalitarian regimes are murderous. Stalin or Khmers were not liberals.

It's highly dishonest to try making such false equivalency. Totalitarian communism is very much like any theocracy - and what do I care if I was murdered for the glory of the CP or for the god some unwashed ghoul claims to believe in?   

 

Back on topic, Europe is not falling. It's not liberal or conservative by default, it's meant to be guided by the common-sense. Just as I like it. And I'm fairly conservative for today standard's - that's how you too went from liberal to conservative without changing your beliefs - we're just old.

And it's old people's job to be wise instead of cunning. 

Edited October 1, 2021 by Helen of Annoy

[Tatetopa]

11 minutes ago, OverSword said:

And the reality the left gets regardless of intentions.  Over 100 million of their own people dead at the hands of their governments in the last century.  You know why?  Because they are not tolerant regardless of what lies they tell themselves.  The picture below demonstrates the ultimate definition of intolerance.

Man what a buzzkill, but I did fan the flames of the red team blue team rift.  Are the skulls an artifact of the Khmer Rouge regime?  They were not known for liberalism of tolerance.

[+OverSword]

6 minutes ago, Helen of Annoy said:

I see you brought up communist crimes with that photo. The problem wasn't communism, the problem was that it was totalitarian. Right or left, totalitarian regimes are murderous. Stalin or Khmers were not liberals.

It's highly dishonest to try making such false equivalency. Totalitarian communism is very much like any theocracy - and what do I care if I was murdered for the glory of the CP or for the god some unwashed ghoul claims to believe in?  

Totalitarianism is the logical outcome of any collectivist philosophy.  Since everything must be for the good of the whole there can be only one direction to take and that is for the greater good even at the expense of the few or the individual.  The amount of people allowed to decide that necessarily becomes less and less until you have a few people making all the decisions and everyone else must cooperate.  Disagreement is bad for the whole so will not be tolerated.  Happens every time.

[+OverSword]

3 minutes ago, Tatetopa said:

Man what a buzzkill, but I did fan the flames of the red team blue team rift.  Are the skulls an artifact of the Khmer Rouge regime?  They were not known for liberalism of tolerance.

Yes but they were the product of a collectivist, or left, philosophy and they were all killed for the ultimate greater good.

[Guest Br Cornelius]

52 minutes ago, OverSword said:

To your entire first paragraph, there are crazy people on all sides. The teletubby type steers the liberal agenda.  They have taken over, if you are not them then you are a conservative.  All conservatives condemn murder.  The liberal's are headed in the  "You have to break a few eggs to make an omlette" direction.   I used to be considered a liberal but now am considered a conservative.  I haven't changed, if anything I'm even more open minded than ever.  The left has coopted liberals and they are looney tunes. Maybe it's different where you are, here it is not.

Your confusing been conservative with small government libertarianism. whilst ignoring that right wing governments have been responsible for equal or greater numbers of deaths than left wing governments. I imagine you would like to imagine that all conservative governments would be small government libertarian but all the evidence shows that this is far from been the case.

Br Cornelius

[Guest Br Cornelius]

Given your previous comments Oversword I cannot see why you agreed with my last statement.
 

Br Cornelius

[Helen of Annoy]

 

8 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Totalitarianism is the logical outcome of any collectivist philosophy.  Since everything must be for the good of the whole there can be only one direction to take and that is for the greater good even at the expense of the few or the individual.  The amount of people allowed to decide that necessarily becomes less and less until you have a few people making all the decisions and everyone else must cooperate.  Disagreement is bad for the whole so will not be tolerated.  Happens every time.

So far it often was, but it doesn't have to be. Tribal societies are collectivist, call it communist if you will. Communism is not a dirty word, it's an abused word.  

You assume people can only be forced into voluntary, mutually beneficial cooperation. That's not so. Any healthy family is a good example of voluntary cooperation. How conservative of me to bring up family as the template for the human society. Only I'm liberal enough it can be 7 gays, as long as their family is happy and everyone is loved, it's a model family. 

And let's go back on topic. 

[+OverSword]

2 minutes ago, Br Cornelius said:

Your confusing been conservative with small government libertarianism. whilst ignoring that right wing governments have been responsible for equal or greater numbers of deaths than left wing governments. I imagine you would like to imagine that all conservative governments would be small government libertarian but all the evidence shows that this is far from been the case.

Br Cornelius

Also right wing politics believes in free enterprise, private ownership and favors traditional (tried and true) social values.  Left politics believes in forced egalitarianism public ownership and controlled enterprise and fluid social values.  Time and again the right proves it works better for both the individual and the whole regardless of the lefts best intentions.

[+OverSword]

15 minutes ago, Br Cornelius said:

Given your previous comments Oversword I cannot see why you agreed with my last statement.
 

Br Cornelius

Because I'm not an extremist and can recognize some truth in your statement.

Edited October 1, 2021 by OverSword