U.S. condemns 'provocative' Chinese activities near Taiwan

[+OverSword]

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The United States urged China on Sunday to stop its "provocative" military activities near Taiwan, after the island scrambled jets to warn away close to 100 Chinese military aircraft entering its air defence zone over a three-day period.

Taiwan, a democratically governed island that is claimed by China, has complained for more than a year of repeated missions near it by China's air force, often in the southwestern part of its air defence zone close to the Taiwan-controlled Pratas Islands.

On Friday, Saturday and again on Sunday, Taiwan's defence ministry reported that China's air force had sent aircraft into the zone, with 39 on Saturday alone, the highest reported number to date.

"The United States is very concerned by the People's Republic of China's provocative military activity near Taiwan, which is destabilising, risks miscalculations, and undermines regional peace and stability," State Department spokesperson Ned Price said in a statement.

 

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In a related story:

Biden says he and China's Xi agree to abide by Taiwan agreement

 

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U.S. President Joe Biden said on Tuesday that he has spoken to Chinese President Xi Jinping about Taiwan and they agreed to abide by the "Taiwan agreement", as tensions have ratcheted up between Taipei and Beijing.

"I've spoken with Xi about Taiwan. We agree ... we'll abide by the Taiwan agreement," he said. "We made it clear that I don't think he should be doing anything other than abiding by the agreement."

Biden appeared to be referring to Washington's long-standing policy under which it officially recognizes Beijing rather than Taipei, and the Taiwan Relations Act, which makes clear that the U.S. decision to establish diplomatic ties with Beijing instead of Taiwan rests upon the expectation that the future of Taiwan will be determined by peaceful means.

 

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As far as I can understand the agreement about Taiwan between the US and PRC is:

The United States acknowledges that China views Taiwan as it's territory, but only if China can join Taiwan to the PRC peacefully would we tolerate China making that claim reality.  The USA has given itself the responsibility of enabling Taiwan to defend itself militarily and if China decided to use force to annex Taiwan then the USA may no longer agree to acknowledge Chinas viewpoint.

Please note that the US does not Acknowledge Taiwan is Chinas territory.  The US acknowledges that China considers Taiwan to be it's territory.   There is a difference.

Edited October 6, 2021 by OverSword

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

That Biden/Xi conversation and how it’s being reported really worries me. 
It has an air of “In my hand I hold a piece of paper….” about it. Just a little too “We have no territorial ambitions beyond that we’ve already seized”. 
To conflate two events, basically it feels like we’re one walk out from the League of Nations United Nations from WW3.

[+OverSword]

43 minutes ago, Sir Wearer of Hats said:

That Biden/Xi conversation and how it’s being reported really worries me. 
It has an air of “In my hand I hold a piece of paper….” about it. Just a little too “We have no territorial ambitions beyond that we’ve already seized”. 
To conflate two events, basically it feels like we’re one walk out from the League of Nations United Nations from WW3.

I agree, China acting belligerent and threatening places like Taiwan, Japan, and Australia are not a good sign.  Fortunately the other explanation for all of this is so we ignore that they are struggling internally.  Look at the trouble with their economy, their crack down on elements of society, Struggling to regain control over narratives and language being used on their internet, etc...China is fraying around the edges.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

7 minutes ago, OverSword said:

I agree, China acting belligerent and threatening places like Taiwan, Japan, and Australia are not a good sign.  Fortunately the other explanation for all of this is so we ignore that they are struggling internally.  Look at the trouble with their economy, their crack down on elements of society, Struggling to regain control over narratives and language being used on their internet, etc...China is fraying around the edges.

Wounded dogs bite the hardest. 
And it still fits the WW2 analogy, as Germany was in a right mess even as they were invading Austria.

[SHaYap]

The "Free" World muscling in a show of looting, plundering and pillaging power... 

 

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https://news.usni.org › ... › China

Destroyer Makes 7th US Navy Taiwan Strait Transit in 2021

 

28 Jul 2021 — A U.S. guided-missile destroyer moved through the Taiwan Strait on Wednesday, marking the seventh transit of the waters this year by an ...

 

 

https://focustaiwan.tw › Politics

US Navy ship sails through Taiwan Strait, 9th transit so far this year

 

18 Sep 2021 — Taipei, Sept. 18 (CNA) A U.S. Navy ship sailed through the Taiwan Strait on Friday, marking the ninth time an American military vessel ...

 

 

https://www.stripes.com › navy › tai...

Navy's monthly Taiwan Strait transits continue with guided-missile

 

18 Sep 2021 — YOKOSUKA NAVAL BASE, Japan – Another U.S. guided-missile destroyer has steamed through the Taiwan Strait, marking the Navy's ...

 

---

https://www.stripes.com › navy › tai...

US Navy sends warship through the Taiwan Strait for seventh time this ...

 

29 Jul 2021 — The Benfold's passage marks the seventh Taiwan Strait transit this year by a Navy vessel, 7th Fleet spokesman Lt. Mark Langford told ...

 

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[+DieChecker]

It is a troubling trend.

On one hand, I don't want Taiwan to be taken over by the Taliban... errr... I mean China.

And on the other hand TSMC is my employer's/company's only real competitor on the world stage...

Hummmmm......

[DarkHunter]

Seems America has some special forces and marines in Taiwan and are planning on keeping them there for a year.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/u-s-troops-have-been-deployed-in-taiwan-for-at-least-a-year-11633614043

Other articles are saying the special forces have been there a year already and are there helping train the Taiwanese military in repelling an amphibious assault.

[Buzz_Light_Year]

18 hours ago, third_eye said:

"maritime" waters, not military... 

Passage, without prior notification, is a maritime right laid out as part of the U.N. Law of the Sea Convention.

The straits of Hormuz, the straits of Gibraltar and the straits of Taiwan are recognized as international transits. The Strait of Taiwan is an international strait, regardless of the status of Taiwan, and since the formation of the United Nations has always been considered so.

China did the same through U.S. territorial waters off Alaska.

Furthermore the Hague has rejected China's claim to the vast majority of the South China Sea.

 

[thedutchiedutch]

15 hours ago, third_eye said:

  54 minutes ago, Buzz_Light_Year said:

China did the same through U.S. territorial waters off Alaska.

 

I think Buzz is reffering to this : https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/42352/chinese-warships-sailing-near-alaskas-aleutian-islands-shadowed-by-u-s-coast-guard

You're welcome. Just hate the thought of seeing you dance so hope it's all good now 

[SHaYap]

6 minutes ago, thedutchiedutch said:

You're welcome.

Here we go... 

"No interaction occurred between Chinese vessels and American Coast Guard or American fishing vessels, according to the Coast Guard’s release. It said the Chinese vessels have right of passage through the economic exclusion zone, and were in full compliance with international maritime law."

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https://www.alaskapublic.org › coast...

Coast Guard encountered Chinese warships in the Aleutians in August

 

14 Sep 2021 — The Coast Guard encountered a flotilla of Chinese warships 46 miles off the Aleutian Islands at the end of August, inside of the U.S. ...

~

You're welcome too... 

~

6 minutes ago, thedutchiedutch said:

Just hate the thought of seeing you dance so hope it's all good now 

You don't know what you're missing... 

~

 

[thedutchiedutch]

Just now, third_eye said:

Here we go... 

"No interaction occurred between Chinese vessels and American Coast Guard or American fishing vessels, according to the Coast Guard’s release. It said the Chinese vessels have right of passage through the economic exclusion zone, and were in full compliance with international maritime law."

~

You're welcome too... 

~

You don't know what you're missing... 

~

 

Thanks but I am just quoting what I thought Buzz was referring about.

[thedutchiedutch]

Just curious tho, is US Navy sailing through Taiwan Strait legal ? 

[Tatetopa]

19 hours ago, DieChecker said:

And on the other hand TSMC is my employer's/company's only real competitor on the world stage...

When there is only one source of a product, people who use it get nervous.  They tend to look at redesigns and alternatives.  Sometimes competitors, being at least two developed sources are reassuring to product designers. 

[SHaYap]

1 hour ago, thedutchiedutch said:

Just curious tho, is US Navy sailing through Taiwan Strait legal ? 

Nope, but it doesn't matter because it's going ahead under protest with consideration, the participating nations takes full responsibility to avoid all and any actions that can be construed as hostile. 

It's all a dog and pony show to milk more tax payers money for military budgets. 

~

[Buzz_Light_Year]

https://news.usni.org/2015/09/03/chinese-warships-made-innocent-passage-through-u-s-territorial-waters-off-alaska

https://www.us-taiwan.org/resources/faq-the-taiwan-strait-is-international-waters/

https://thediplomat.com/2017/09/finally-strategic-clarity-in-the-south-china-sea-is-the-taiwan-strait-next/

https://www.ibtimes.com/china-wants-foreign-vessels-entering-its-territorial-waters-notify-beijing-3284816

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However, the UN convention considers the waters between Taiwan and China an international strait through which freedom of navigation “solely for the purpose of continuous and expeditious transit of the strait” is guaranteed.

The Taiwan Strait is considered International waters so just get over it.

[DarkHunter]

6 hours ago, thedutchiedutch said:

Just curious tho, is US Navy sailing through Taiwan Strait legal ? 

Sailing through the strait is perfectly legal, it's an international water way and is thus under freedom of navigation.

The Taiwan Strait is 100 miles wide at it's most narrow point.  Under current international law a countries territorial water, the section a country has sovereignty over, is 12 nautical miles (approximately 13.81 miles) and a countries contiguous zone, the area a country has limited control essentially just enforcing sanitation, immigration, fiscal laws, customs, and regulations, is between 12 and 24 nautical miles (approximately 13.81 to 27.62 miles).  Even if communist China controlled Taiwan it would still be perfectly legal for America or any other nation to sail whatever military ships they wanted to through the Taiwan strait as there would be at minimum approximately 44.76 mile stretch China has no authority over and an approximately 27.62 mile stretch of limited authority.  Stuff can get complicated with overlapping territorial and contiguous zone but those issues dont arise in this case.

The reason China gets so upset about America sailing military ships through the Taiwan strait is due to the Third Taiwan crisis back in 1995-1996 when China fired ballistic missiles into the Taiwan strait in an attempt to intimidate Taiwan and America responded by sending two carrier strike groups to Taiwan of which one sailed through the Taiwan strait and China was forced to acknowledge there was nothing they could do to stop America from coming to aid Taiwan.  China is still mad about that embarrassment.

Edited October 8, 2021 by DarkHunter

[+OverSword]

13 hours ago, third_eye said:

"No interaction occurred between Chinese vessels and American Coast Guard or American fishing vessels, according to the Coast Guard’s release. It said the Chinese vessels have right of passage through the economic exclusion zone, and were in full compliance with international maritime law."

Who said they didn't.  You insisted on a link and got one and now you're complaining?  

[Jon the frog]

On 10/6/2021 at 3:21 PM, OverSword said:

Link

In a related story:

Biden says he and China's Xi agree to abide by Taiwan agreement

 

Link

As far as I can understand the agreement about Taiwan between the US and PRC is:

The United States acknowledges that China views Taiwan as it's territory, but only if China can join Taiwan to the PRC peacefully would we tolerate China making that claim reality.  The USA has given itself the responsibility of enabling Taiwan to defend itself militarily and if China decided to use force to annex Taiwan then the USA may no longer agree to acknowledge Chinas viewpoint.

Please note that the US does not Acknowledge Taiwan is Chinas territory.  The US acknowledges that China considers Taiwan to be it's territory.   There is a difference.

Well China is beside Taiwan...don't know why we found US forces near Taiwan tho...they are way farther from home than China, lol ! Do the US considers Taiwan to be it's territory ?

Edited October 8, 2021 by Jon the frog

[SHaYap]

If you can paddle a canoe there, you can paddle your canoe every where... 

~

[+OverSword]

2 minutes ago, Jon the frog said:

Well China is beside Taiwan...and Taiwan was China territory. Don't know why we found US forces near Taiwan tho...they are way farther from home than China, lol !

That's easy to answer.  Taiwan wants us there, and we want to be there.

[Saru]

Thread cleaned

Can we keep it civil please folks.

[spartan max2]

1 hour ago, OverSword said:

That's easy to answer.  Taiwan wants us there, and we want to be there.

The US and Taiwan have a long history.

The US politics supported Chiang Kai-Shek's side during the civil war. The Republic of China (ROC).

And ROC sat on the UN from 1950 something until 1971 when we let PRC represent China on the UN instead.

The US and China have always had a vauge agreement that they won't invade Taiwan and in turn we won't call Taiwan a nation offically. Even though we still do seperate trade agreement s, military deals, diplomacy, etc with Taiwan.

Its not random that the US supports Taiwan. We have throughout ROCs whole history.

Edited October 8, 2021 by spartan max2

[+OverSword]

2 minutes ago, spartan max2 said:

The US and Taiwan have a long history.

The US politics supported Chiang Kai-Shek's side during the civil war. The Republic of China (ROC).

And ROC sat on the UN from 1950 something until 1971 when we let PRC represent China on the UN instead.

The US and China have always had a vauge agreement that they won't invade Taiwan and in turn we won't call Taiwan a nation offically. Even though we still do seperate trade agreement s, military deals, diplomacy, etc with Taiwan.

 

Yep, the Nixon administration chose that path in order to make use of Chinas vast pool of slave labor to bring ever cheaper products to the USA.  Stupidest move ever.

[DarkHunter]

19 minutes ago, OverSword said:

Yep, the Nixon administration chose that path in order to make use of Chinas vast pool of slave labor to bring ever cheaper products to the USA.  Stupidest move ever.

Also involved trying to harm the USSR.  China and the USSR both nearly went to war in the late 60s early 70s and there was an idea we might be able to have China aid us in any war against the USSR.  

Ironically enough the death of Ho Chi Minh probably stopped the USSR and China from going to war.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

3 hours ago, spartan max2 said:

The US and Taiwan have a long history.

The US politics supported Chiang Kai-Shek's side during the civil war. The Republic of China (ROC).

And ROC sat on the UN from 1950 something until 1971 when we let PRC represent China on the UN instead.

The US and China have always had a vauge agreement that they won't invade Taiwan and in turn we won't call Taiwan a nation offically. Even though we still do seperate trade agreement s, military deals, diplomacy, etc with Taiwan.

Its not random that the US supports Taiwan. We have throughout ROCs whole history.

It’s a cycle - support, throw under the bus, support, throw under the bus….